mpolans Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I've just been looking at the pics in the gallery of the modified guns and thinking how cool they were. It just seems like the whole modified division addresses a lot the things I don't really like about IPSC in the US right now. The high capacity race is somewhat limited by the box and having to shoot .40 to make major. It allows alot of creativity in packaging a gun so you see a little more variety in gun design. It just seems like a fun little compromise between Open and Limited. I'd love to see Modified Division in the US, especially if we didn't have the holster and mag pouch placement restrictions. What do y'all think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Hmmmm...looking at the same gallery...I was thinking the complete opposite. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 Hmmmm...looking at the same gallery...I was thinking the complete opposite. lol. Maybe because there's no Glock to enter this division ... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 The glock would be prefect for this. You can practically cut up the frame with plain soldering iron. As for creativity, have you checked out guga ribas' response in the modified thread about the kind of compensation system he has for his gun? Very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdj Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 The guns do look interesting but I'm not sure that I'd want to see another division added. There are already cases where in a match of 30 shooters, you end up with a 3 person match. Why would we want to make that even worse? Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I don't see where there would be any gain by adding such a division. The guns typically in limited and open divisions are already pretty specialized. Why make that worse? I agree that some of the guns in that thread look pretty interesting but they are really putting a lot of money and effort into working around the box constraint instead of being primarily performance driven. Too much division and specialization within the sport today, lets not make it any worse please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 I'd rather not see the "box" show up at the chrono stage. It just looks like your limiting the open gun development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 There are already cases where in a match of 30 shooters, you end up with a 3 person match. Why would we want to make that even worse? Amen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted November 30, 2004 Share Posted November 30, 2004 We already have 5 divisions in USPSA. Why would we want even more? If anything, due to the restrictions in a few states and for that matter in a few countries, I would not be opposed to a provisional limit in Open such as Open 10, that way the people in CA and HI would be able to compete. As it is, only those that already have can, those that want to can't. Same for any country that has a limit that has a grandfather clause. I'd allow for a special case. Only problem is that this could snowball in the wrong direcction, and the politicians might say, see you don't need the standard caps, these reduced caps are just fine, so scratch my earlier comment, no Open 10 either. Jim Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 I never understood why it's such a big deal to have 5 or more divisions. Lets look at it like this. 1st. Modified Division classifiers could be factored off of Open Division classifier scores just like L10 division was off of Limited Division. 2nd. While I don't belittle the effort to adopt a new set of rules ( adjusted to suit U.S. region needs like we've done to the other divisions) , we did it for 5 competition divisions plus numerous changes for 3 gun so it COULD be done if we wanted to. Lastly, who cares if we have only 3 shooters in a division IF they are paying members of USPSA and IF they want to spend the dough to build a rules worthy gun and IF they're having fun ? No one said you HAD to give them prizes at any level match if the participant numbers don't warrant you doing so. Modified Division is a legitimate IPSC division...my theory is if you provide the opportunity, someone will take you up on it but FIRST you have to provide the opportunity instead of " why another division...we have 5 already !" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 They have had Modified division at past Nationals. They didn't have much of a turnout. 2002 Race Gun Nats had the Modified guys shoot in Open due to lack of shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Hi folks, If I were King of IPSC, I'd eliminate Open Division globally in favour of Modified Division, because the latter pays homage to the practical (read "concealable") aspects and principles of IPSC by way of the box (which controls the overall gun size), and the "behind the hip bone" holster position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted December 1, 2004 Author Share Posted December 1, 2004 Note that the question wasn't "should we add a modified division," but rather, would you shoot it if we had it. I don't see any problem with having only 3 shooters in a division if they're willing to shoot it. That's the way revolver division is at most matches I've seen. I don't see how it stifles development in Open division either, since it's not like Modified would replace Open. Heck, if anything, it looks like Standard/Limited is closer to replacing Open if you look at the poll in the other post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Thankfully we live in a democratic republic and not a monarcy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Well IF I was DICKTATER, we would stick with the way things are in the US and quit screwing with the damn rules all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Hi folks,If I were King of IPSC, I'd eliminate Open Division globally in favour of Modified Division, because the latter pays homage to the practical (read "concealable") aspects and principles of IPSC by way of the box (which controls the overall gun size), and the "behind the hip bone" holster position. Hrm... seems to me that some people were thinking the same way when they came up with I@#A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Hi folks,If I were King of IPSC, I'd eliminate Open Division globally in favour of Modified Division, because the latter pays homage to the practical (read "concealable") aspects and principles of IPSC by way of the box (which controls the overall gun size), and the "behind the hip bone" holster position. [rant mode on] If I were King, I'd get rid of all the wussie divisions and have only Open. Its a game, lets have fun. PS: IDPA is only a game too, anytime you keep time and score it's not practical, its a sport (game) [rant mode off] I do find it humorous that the US (one of the few places in the world that you can carry a gun) tends to be the gamiest and countries that don't allow carry tend to want to be 'practical' hmmmmm....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 It's "monarchy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Thankfully we live in a democratic republic and not a monarcy. I'm thankful that the people who actually administer IPSC can debate the issues without making things personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 I agree, adopt Modified and eliminate Open. Having the gun fit in the box promotes more creativity. Just look at all the various ways people have come up with to get the optics to fit in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joaquino Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Wow, actually I'm surprised; I didn't even know that there is no IPSC Modified division in the US. Can somebody tell the reason for this? Is it the lack of shooter? By the way, I think everybody should shoot what he/she likes and if it's necessary to create a new division because the interest of shooting a new kind of a gun increases than lets do it. I don’t thing eliminating a division is a good idea, this happened already with open Revolver. Cheers Chris P.S. Modified division is nothing new, it was established years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Nothing personal unless you take it that way. The comment was intended to reinforce the idea that the shooters should and generally do get what they want, through interaction with thier elected representives (new rulebookl not withstanding), Representative Republic, not edicts handed down from on high, Monarchy. Things are only personal if they are taken that way, but it seems that some repeat the desire to be "King" of IPSC more often than others. And that is a worrisome comment to me. We dumped the King and Queen over 200 years ago and I don't want another in any manner. Heck I don't even refer to Elvis as the "King" Jim Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Buff Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 When I first noticed modified div I though "This is great" and still do. It lets you play within limits of the box and your imagination. Keep open - good for R&D Get mod - more fun with a gun Std - always cool Prod - good "back to basics" Rev - needs an open rev once numbers pick up My humble 0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joaquino Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 When I first noticed modified div I though "This is great" and still do. It lets you play within limits of the box and your imagination.Keep open - good for R&D Get mod - more fun with a gun Std - always cool Prod - good "back to basics" Rev - needs an open rev once numbers pick up My humble 0.02 I totally agree with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyFL Posted December 2, 2004 Share Posted December 2, 2004 Leave Elvis out of this!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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