3 Gun Nation Regional Series Updates

[Mberry]

It's still the same match, we still all shoot together. You squad with whoever you squad with and I'm sure that they'll take squad requests. The difference will be that the top semi-pro will set the 100% match point score for the semi-pro division. That makes a much more level field across the semi-pro scoring. With the old scoring system, the top semi-pro could end up only getting 70 points for shooting a phenomenal match against the top pros, opposed to 90 points shooting a match where the top pros decided to go play elsewhere. This makes it much more level. All it does is create a bit more work for 3GN, which I'm sure part of our membership fees will be paying for.

[Lead-Head]

Rules! I normally hate rules, but some freakin rules would really help shooter's decision making related to these matches.

Post the rules about the semi-pro scores in regionals. Rules about prize table distribution.

Post a solid set of rules, let everyone see them, mull them over, and then open registration.

[New4John]

Rules! I normally hate rules, but some freakin rules would really help shooter's decision making related to these matches.

Post the rules about the semi-pro scores in regionals. Rules about prize table distribution.

Post a solid set of rules, let everyone see them, mull them over, and then open registration.

This.

And more importantly, once they're posted, stick to and adhere to the rules for the season, no changes after people have spent $ to compete under the rules that were set at registration only to be changed later.

[Glock3422]

Unless someone here knows how or what was broken and why some people got registered and some people couldn't even get to the members area, nobody knows what's fair. So it's a Reshoot. Simple as that guys. Quit trying to eff your buddies here. Everyone will get the same hopefully less problematic fair shot another day.

I know this-The IDPA web site was basic, but functional. You could do anything you really wanted to and locate information in a logical manner. After RangeDog, NO! A complete disaster.

Now it seems RangeDog is the programming juggernaut for 3GN match registration. Well, RangeDog crapped on the living room floor again.

That is exactly what went wrong.

Now, trying all this out live, for four matches, at the same time, on Thanksgiving; that not just naïve, that is stupid.

The skill set of the individuals involved fails to support the requirements of the task.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Glock3422

[USMCRET]

Well I actually got a call from one of the Match Directors from 3GN after submitting comments on their website. We talked for about 10 minutes and I express my views about how I thought it was unfair that the people that stuck with it do not get to keep their slots. He stated he understood my concerns but 3GN nation felt this was the best policy. He advised me that they were going to opening the registration again soon and to keep a watch out. He also stated that only about 100 people were able to sign up for a match.

Granted they are still going with the redo but I give props to 3GN for actually calling individuals that submitted concerns and trying to address them with a personal conversation rather then a blanket email.

+1 for 3GN on that. I will be waiting to sign up again, must companies wouldn't have made phone calls.

Adam

Since establishing this thread I have offered my email and phone to ALL. That offer still stands. Please use it if you have a question or concern. I will take the time to hopeful get you an answer.

As for the train wreck on the match registration, I apologize and take responsibility...no one is more frustrated and upset about it than I am...but I am dedicated to making this work both in fairness and in logistics. Any one that knows me and or has participated in ANY event that I am part of can be attest they are treated fair and repectful.

I am passionate about this sport and see all the wonderful things it offers to its participates...which certainly out weighs the "hassles". So be assured that at this moment 3Gunnation is working this problem...

Please don't hesitate to reach out to me with your concerns...it does mean a lot to me and to 3GN, we are just trying to grow this game!

Charles Sole

Cell 919-201-7990

Email charles@3gunnation.com

Thanks for supporting this sport!

Guys

I have been shooting Charles tarheel matches and I can tell you that Charles is for making great matches for the shooters. He will do everything he can to make the regionals great matches that everyone will talk about after they are over. Everyone needs to hang on and wait until this is corrected and the regionals will be worth the wait.

[WillieWonker]

To Whoever Cares, Things like the other day Happen in life. I had made it through to register and I WILL return to try again whenever they open it back up. It is the only way I see to make it fair. Solutions not Whining will be the fix. I Appreciate the hard work people are putting into fixing the issues.

So to the 3 Gun Nation staff involved in this, Keep your Heads up and Drive on! It is Impossible to make everyone Happy All The Time. I am not losing any sleep over it.

[spankymac]

Well I actually got a call from one of the Match Directors from 3GN after submitting comments on their website. We talked for about 10 minutes and I express my views about how I thought it was unfair that the people that stuck with it do not get to keep their slots. He stated he understood my concerns but 3GN nation felt this was the best policy. He advised me that they were going to opening the registration again soon and to keep a watch out. He also stated that only about 100 people were able to sign up for a match.

Granted they are still going with the redo but I give props to 3GN for actually calling individuals that submitted concerns and trying to address them with a personal conversation rather then a blanket email.

+1 for 3GN on that. I will be waiting to sign up again, must companies wouldn't have made phone calls.

Adam

Since establishing this thread I have offered my email and phone to ALL. That offer still stands. Please use it if you have a question or concern. I will take the time to hopeful get you an answer.

As for the train wreck on the match registration, I apologize and take responsibility...no one is more frustrated and upset about it than I am...but I am dedicated to making this work both in fairness and in logistics. Any one that knows me and or has participated in ANY event that I am part of can be attest they are treated fair and repectful.

I am passionate about this sport and see all the wonderful things it offers to its participates...which certainly out weighs the "hassles". So be assured that at this moment 3Gunnation is working this problem...

Please don't hesitate to reach out to me with your concerns...it does mean a lot to me and to 3GN, we are just trying to grow this game!

Charles Sole

Cell 919-201-7990

Email charles@3gunnation.com

Thanks for supporting this sport!

Guys

I have been shooting Charles tarheel matches and I can tell you that Charles is for making great matches for the shooters. He will do everything he can to make the regionals great matches that everyone will talk about after they are over. Everyone needs to hang on and wait until this is corrected and the regionals will be worth the wait.

+1

[davehorn]

Rules! I normally hate rules, but some freakin rules would really help shooter's decision making related to these matches.

Post the rules about the semi-pro scores in regionals. Rules about prize table distribution.

Post a solid set of rules, let everyone see them, mull them over, and then open registration.

Yes! Hearing this talk of planned "changes" that haven't been publicized doesn't leave me feeling all warm and fuzzy. Before we play the registration game again, tell us all what we're signing up for.

And more importantly, once they're posted, stick to and adhere to the rules for the season, no changes after people have spent $ to compete under the rules that were set at registration only to be changed later.

Moving the goalposts ain't cool. Even the perception of it happening should be very troubling. A good reason why a complete and published rule set prior to kicking this thing off is the only right way to do it. Taking the time to do it right will pay dividends in the future and prevent a lot of hurt feelings and headaches.

[Therealkoop]

Do you have to sign up as "semi-pro" in 2014? I didn't see the option. I was under the impression that it didn't matter how you signed up- if you shot the regional you attained "semi-pro" points.

Any word on when the next registration will begin?

[Flatland Shooter]

Do you have to sign up as "semi-pro" in 2014? I didn't see the option. I was under the impression that it didn't matter how you signed up- if you shot the regional you attained "semi-pro" points.

Any word on when the next registration will begin?

In the member's section, click on "register to compete". It brings up a form for your personal information and a box to check if you want to register as a "semi-pro". Cost is $25.

[Therealkoop]

Do you have to sign up as "semi-pro" in 2014? I didn't see the option. I was under the impression that it didn't matter how you signed up- if you shot the regional you attained "semi-pro" points.

Any word on when the next registration will begin?

In the member's section, click on "register to compete". It brings up a form for your personal information and a box to check if you want to register as a "semi-pro". Cost is $25.

Thanks sir.

[Chills1994]

.

That's actually pretty close to when we did switch over. I'd have to check my notes but we've had time plus at Nationals for a couple years and it was allowed for a couple years before that. USPSA had other issues with multigun and we still do. They are being fixed but it's axing the amount of resistance and people fighting to keep status quo when it obviously didn't work. I can just about guarantee at the next BOD meeting one of the ADs will bring up the same argument he does at every BOD meeting to go back and change stuff.

3GN has some advantages over USPSA in that it is more flexible and can change more quickly. Sometimes that is good but sometimes there can be a tendency to change for changes sake.

As for the people complaining about having to be members to shoot the regionals. So what? There are lots of other organizations that require membership before shooting even local matches (IDPA GSSF)or at least majors (USPSA). Why should someone receive the benefit of 3GN without paying to support it. Don't want to be a member fine, don't shoot the matches. That's all the 25 fee was. A membership fee. Not a signup fee or a preregistration fee. It's your annual dues in the organization that is doing the most to promote 3 Gun.

I put on a 3 gun match in 2011, having been a USPSA match director, there was no time plus scoring in EZWinScore. So I made up on my scoresheets. 1 A hit, 2 hits anywhere, all clays must have at least one hole, all steel must fall to score, time plus. Scoring went really fast.

I could swear there was a thread here years ago where it was suggested USPSA 3 gun should have classifier stages. IIRC, everbody was like "WHAT!?"

Now look where 3GN is at.

As far as USPSA, their marketing has always been slow. I remember a few years back thinking "they don't have a USPSA.org facebook page or youtube channel???"

I am not saying one way or the other, good or bad, but here is the thread I remember from 2010:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=111907&hl=%20classifier&page=1

[gose]

.

That's actually pretty close to when we did switch over. I'd have to check my notes but we've had time plus at Nationals for a couple years and it was allowed for a couple years before that. USPSA had other issues with multigun and we still do. They are being fixed but it's axing the amount of resistance and people fighting to keep status quo when it obviously didn't work. I can just about guarantee at the next BOD meeting one of the ADs will bring up the same argument he does at every BOD meeting to go back and change stuff.

3GN has some advantages over USPSA in that it is more flexible and can change more quickly. Sometimes that is good but sometimes there can be a tendency to change for changes sake.

As for the people complaining about having to be members to shoot the regionals. So what? There are lots of other organizations that require membership before shooting even local matches (IDPA GSSF)or at least majors (USPSA). Why should someone receive the benefit of 3GN without paying to support it. Don't want to be a member fine, don't shoot the matches. That's all the 25 fee was. A membership fee. Not a signup fee or a preregistration fee. It's your annual dues in the organization that is doing the most to promote 3 Gun.

I put on a 3 gun match in 2011, having been a USPSA match director, there was no time plus scoring in EZWinScore. So I made up on my scoresheets. 1 A hit, 2 hits anywhere, all clays must have at least one hole, all steel must fall to score, time plus. Scoring went really fast.

I could swear there was a thread here years ago where it was suggested USPSA 3 gun should have classifier stages. IIRC, everbody was like "WHAT!?"

Now look where 3GN is at.

As far as USPSA, their marketing has always been slow. I remember a few years back thinking "they don't have a USPSA.org facebook page or youtube channel???"

Are they where they are because of the classifiers, or despite them?

Personally I'll probably never shoot a 3GN classifier for score, as I could care less about classification, but clearly there's a large enough mass of shooters who either like them, or at least dont mind them, as they seem to be pretty popular.

I think a lot of the animosity against USPSA's classification system is that it's used to hand out prizes and awards at matches, which leads to varying levels of sandbagging and butt hurt. So far 3GN has cleverly stayed away from this and as long as they do, I think that their classification system will be more accepted and generate fewer issues.

I think they have a pretty good thing going with the classifiers, so it will be interesting to see what USPSA will do now

Edited December 1, 2013 by gose

[Chills1994]

A little cherub told me back in the fall of 2007 that USPSA had something lined up, as like an umbrella organization type of move. What he was hinting at, at that time was USPSA buying the Steel Challenge. I could have sworn I had heard something along the lines of a big pow wow happening with some NRA types, and the head honchos from IDPA and USPSA to discuss 3 gun and/or an umbrella organization. I don't know if that meeting ever did come to fruition. That was several years back.

And then I guess within the past year or two, the NSSF, I guess ... ??? ,basically stole the scholastic steel challenge from USPSA.

Soooooo....

[ca3gunguy]

Unless someone here knows how or what was broken and why some people got registered and some people couldn't even get to the members area, nobody knows what's fair. So it's a Reshoot. Simple as that guys. Quit trying to eff your buddies here. Everyone will get the same hopefully less problematic fair shot another day.

I know this-The IDPA web site was basic, but functional. You could do anything you really wanted to and locate information in a logical manner. After RangeDog, NO! A complete disaster.

Now it seems RangeDog is the programming juggernaut for 3GN match registration. Well, RangeDog crapped on the living room floor again.

That is exactly what went wrong.

Now, trying all this out live, for four matches, at the same time, on Thanksgiving; that not just naïve, that is stupid.

The skill set of the individuals involved fails to support the requirements of the task.

You folks are all missing the elephant in the room regarding this mess and it is not 3GN . I have no question that 3GN is not a group of code writers and software developers. The real issue is with the group that developed the software and provide computer support to 3GN. That would be RANGE-LOG.

RANGE LOG is the real issue, peel back the onion and see what is really there. RANGE LOG has never managed a single online registration process. It is a group of part timers working after their 9 to 5 and massed together by a guy named Drew Hill. And this guys ego is a mile long. Well it looks like RANGE LOG just crapped in their pants and wiped with 3GN and it supporters. Any business big or small would cut ties and find a more experienced registration solution group. At get rid of amateur hour RANGE LOG.

I shoot 3gun and IDPA and RANGE LOG has sold IDPA a pack of lies and untested theories of members data and scoring that is still a fantasy. We at IDPA have seen this. So praise those who earned it, the folks at 3GN for trying to better a shooting sport and cruse RANGE LOG for taking advantage of our sport to make a coin. They screwed up the sign up for these matches not 3GN.

I think it is noble for 3GN to take the heat but RANGE LOG is the mother and father of this problem. Last, why hasn't RANGE LOG made a public statement about their incompetence. It certainly shows they don't care about this sport. But 3GN fell on the sword for each of us. 3GN get rid of RANGE LOG.

Edited December 1, 2013 by ca3gunguy

[Bryan 45]

RangeLog did make a statement on Facebook. Something like "sorry, my bad bro."

I don't know the guys at Rangelog, but nothing about the portion of the 3GN website that links to rangelog is easy to use.

[Robbie]

Well I actually got a call from one of the Match Directors from 3GN after submitting comments on their website. We talked for about 10 minutes and I express my views about how I thought it was unfair that the people that stuck with it do not get to keep their slots. He stated he understood my concerns but 3GN nation felt this was the best policy. He advised me that they were going to opening the registration again soon and to keep a watch out. He also stated that only about 100 people were able to sign up for a match.

Granted they are still going with the redo but I give props to 3GN for actually calling individuals that submitted concerns and trying to address them with a personal conversation rather then a blanket email.

+1 for 3GN on that. I will be waiting to sign up again, must companies wouldn't have made phone calls.

Adam

Since establishing this thread I have offered my email and phone to ALL. That offer still stands. Please use it if you have a question or concern. I will take the time to hopeful get you an answer.

As for the train wreck on the match registration, I apologize and take responsibility...no one is more frustrated and upset about it than I am...but I am dedicated to making this work both in fairness and in logistics. Any one that knows me and or has participated in ANY event that I am part of can be attest they are treated fair and repectful.

I am passionate about this sport and see all the wonderful things it offers to its participates...which certainly out weighs the "hassles". So be assured that at this moment 3Gunnation is working this problem...

Please don't hesitate to reach out to me with your concerns...it does mean a lot to me and to 3GN, we are just trying to grow this game!

Charles Sole

Cell 919-201-7990

Email charles@3gunnation.com

Thanks for supporting this sport!

Guys

I have been shooting Charles tarheel matches and I can tell you that Charles is for making great matches for the shooters. He will do everything he can to make the regionals great matches that everyone will talk about after they are over. Everyone needs to hang on and wait until this is corrected and the regionals will be worth the wait.

+1

++1

[Travtastik]

I don't know the guys at Rangelog, but nothing about the portion of the 3GN website that links to rangelog is easy to use.

+1 I thought it was just me but after talking to several local members it seems to be a issue to more then I would have thought.

[Jesse Tischauser]

...

Edited December 1, 2013 by Jesse Tischauser

[Jesse Tischauser]

RangeLog did make a statement on Facebook. Something like "sorry, my bad bro."I don't know the guys at Rangelog, but nothing about the portion of the 3GN website that links to rangelog is easy to use.

I agree. The 3GN site has become pretty useful actually. They still need a dedicated tab or link in a drop down menu for every points race from pro to semi pro to amateur.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Jesse Tischauser

[NMBOpen]

An idea: Reserve one squad's worth of slots for Pros, a Squad n+1, that isn't counted against the registration cap. MD choice to squad them together or distribute among the n squads. Don't know if RangeLog is up to it

[WillieWonker]

I completely agree with Jessie on the Classification System. It should not take over like USPSA's system. Sand Bagging is Huge to Get wins. A "B" Class shooter placing in the top 10 and beating a bunch of Masters is NOT a fair way. I have seen dudes burn down a Local match, but through a Miss or 2 on the classifier stage. Hummm, Really?

3 Gun, Please keep Prize Tables and such the way they are! Overall Standings! You get out of it what you put into it! If Horner is the Best (or Whoever wins the Match) He should get 1st Dibs. It just means us "Average Joe's" need to put more into it to climb the ladder!

[Fitzghan]

Well I actually got a call from one of the Match Directors from 3GN after submitting comments on their website. We talked for about 10 minutes and I express my views about how I thought it was unfair that the people that stuck with it do not get to keep their slots. He stated he understood my concerns but 3GN nation felt this was the best policy. He advised me that they were going to opening the registration again soon and to keep a watch out. He also stated that only about 100 people were able to sign up for a match.

Granted they are still going with the redo but I give props to 3GN for actually calling individuals that submitted concerns and trying to address them with a personal conversation rather then a blanket email.

+1 for 3GN on that. I will be waiting to sign up again, must companies wouldn't have made phone calls.

Adam

Since establishing this thread I have offered my email and phone to ALL. That offer still stands. Please use it if you have a question or concern. I will take the time to hopeful get you an answer.

As for the train wreck on the match registration, I apologize and take responsibility...no one is more frustrated and upset about it than I am...but I am dedicated to making this work both in fairness and in logistics. Any one that knows me and or has participated in ANY event that I am part of can be attest they are treated fair and repectful.

I am passionate about this sport and see all the wonderful things it offers to its participates...which certainly out weighs the "hassles". So be assured that at this moment 3Gunnation is working this problem...

Please don't hesitate to reach out to me with your concerns...it does mean a lot to me and to 3GN, we are just trying to grow this game!

Charles Sole

Cell 919-201-7990

Email charles@3gunnation.com

Thanks for supporting this sport!

Guys

I have been shooting Charles tarheel matches and I can tell you that Charles is for making great matches for the shooters. He will do everything he can to make the regionals great matches that everyone will talk about after they are over. Everyone needs to hang on and wait until this is corrected and the regionals will be worth the wait.

+1

+1 and witness the success of Squad Signup which Charles enlisted for the Tarheel 3 gun Challenge registration. It went smooth and flawless. Same guys that have been doing Tarheel 3 Gun’s registration for local matches and it is awesome. All I ever have to do is click register….it has my 3 Gun Nation #, my preferred division, military status and all that jazz already filled in.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Fitzghan

[Glock3422]

Interesting to note that Tar Heel 3 Gun ran an online registration that seems to have gone without a hitch. I guess doing that at least once every month helps. Hmmmm.

[Tennille223]

Hello Everyone, full rules for the Regional matches can be found here. http://3gunnation.com/regionals/rules_awards