G17 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I have a Gen 4 17 that i am slowly making an open gun. At the moment it has dawson adjustables which are nice but i'v run out of room to lower elevation so it's set at the bottom. I decided to wait on getting a taller front sight because the gun would shoot to poa and was dead on anywhere from 10-25 yards so i wasn't concerned. I recently added a used kkm barrel and Jager compensator and just got back from the range and testing it out. My first shot was like 7 inches high. I thought it was a fluke, and the next shot went right next door. After 10 rounds i had about an 1.5-2 inch group but 7 inches high! At 25 yards i could group between 3-4 incohes but it was almost a foot high. I literally had to put the top of my front sight in the bottom target just for it to hit the top target, and theres like a foot between. The comp however did substantially soften muzzle rise, which was nice, it was great actually. For a little more verification i decided to bench the pistol for a bit, and even had one of the range instructors try it but neither produced any results that were better. Now here's a few details. I ordered both a a 12lb and 14lb spring from Glockworx but have not received them yet. I was using the stock spring weight so i'm not sure if that could have had anything to do with it. I was shooting PMC bronze, Magtech 124fmj, and a box of 147grn speer gold dots. The later two performed with 100% reliability, the PMC either had a failure to fire, failure to feed, failure to eject, stovepipe literally every other round. So i gave up on it and took it home with me and shot the other two, which were fine. Now since i had the stock recoil spring weight i was expecting a few malfunctions, that doesn't bother me, however it is weird how the Speer and Magtech didn't have one issue, whereas the PMC couldn't even fire 2 rounds in a row. If anyone can tell me about that i'd appreciate it also. However, all of the ammo still shot ridiculously high. Could the high shots be because the compensator is meant for hotter ammo? I wouldn't imagine that would effect the height of the shots like that. If it was off just a little bit i wouldn't really care, i'm not that picky, but this was unacceptable. I'v had my sights for about a month now, so i doubt Dawson would replace it, and i don't really care to buy a taller sight. I'm just curious as to what i can do. This is the first compensator i'v ever put on a gun so i didn't know if this is a common occurence or not. I was not able to take the comp off and try without it because i loctited it on and that puppy ain't going no where yet. P.S. Sorry for the flurry of questions i have regarding things lately, I'm just still learning. Thank you for your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Chris, I presume? you're going to shoot 9mm major thru the gun?? In Open? I wouldn't do too much until I tested some 9mm major loads thru your gun - see how the sights work out? As a matter of fact, I further presume you're planning on adding an optical sight??? That should solve the problem completely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toolguy Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Sounds like maybe the bullets are hitting on the bottom of the comp hole and being deflected up. There are a lot of variables to look at though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 If the holes are nice and round and the groups are good I would presume the bullets are not hitting the comp. But it's still possible I suppose. Screw the comp off and shoot a few. You will know in an instant if the comp is the problem. Other than hitting the comp I don't see how it could make your gun shoot high. As for the PMC deal, if the comp is indeed working and you have those heavyish springs in there it is probably not generating enough slide speed to run right. The other loads are probably a little hotter. How was the ejection on the others? Should be spitting out a little ways and not just dropping at your feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I think if the bullets were hitting the comp, the holes would be funny shaped. A foot at 25 yards would mean that the barrel vertical axis would have to only be 3/4 of a degree higher. That equates to 0.066" on a 5" barrel. It is probably the barrel or the fit of the barrel or both. at least, that is my guess... Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G17 Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 The PMC rounds sucked. They were on the cheap so i brought like 200. They were barely just falling out of the gun honestly.I actually remember one shot that i fired where i swair to god the case seemed to barrel roll to the left over the slide and sit right between my left hand thumb and the slide. I just kind of looked at it like, seriously? I just grabbed it and chucked it. I only brought 50 of the magtech, and 20 gold dots, and i wasn't really paying attention to ejection patterns on those because i was just more focused on if the gun was going to function, and if the shots might not be so high. Although, they were still high, they all functioned as intended and i can't note any weak ejection on those. The new springs should be here tommorow so Thursday i'll give it a go, again. I inspected the comp and i don't see any signs that bullets have been hitting it so i think i'm o.k. in that area. Since i did get this setup used i'm a little concerned. It just looks like there is not very much rifling left in the barrel. It's almost flat. So that makes me wonder if that could be whats effecting it. Although, i have never owned a KKM barrel so i don't have a reference. I have owned many lonewolf barrels and i just remember the rifling being much more pronounced. I'm concerned that this barrel might be towards the end of its days. All is good though, because i'm still getting very tight groups with it, and once i get my optic i should be able to adjust the poa. I'm on a pretty tight budget, so for me it's about one range session a week, and one nice gun part a month. As for uspsa, i intended on doing major because i was planning on getting into reloading. Money is tight because of school and stuff so the reloading equipment might have to wait and this might just end up as a range toy for a while. Theres the possibility of just doing production with a different gun. Either way, i would still like this gun to function good. i'll let you know how it goes when i lighten up the recoil springs. I can't imagine it will bring my shots down but at least the gun will cycle properly. Also just for the record, i read a lot of stuff saying you need major for the compensator to do anything. Even with this crappy ammo i did notice a huge difference in muzzle rise. It was definately much softer and target acquisition was much quicker. I'm sure it's not near the benefits of actually have major through it, but still in my eyes it was a noticeable difference. Ok, now i just have to get it to shoot lower. good night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Different barrel, different fit different POI, no big deal; change the sights. What seems more concerning is that money is tight and you're diving into Open... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G17 Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 Different barrel, different fit different POI, no big deal; change the sights. What seems more concerning is that money is tight and you're diving into Open... I understand what your saying but you shouldn't have to be rich to compete in open. That's why i'm using a Glock in the first place. I just have a tighter budget to follow but i'm making progress and getting what i need. My jobs are in slow season for the winter, once next February hit's i'll be good to go. It might be a few months before i even make it to a match and like i mentioned in my last post if i don't feel comfortable with it there's always the option to doing production with a different gun. I'v read from a few people on here that it's not necessarily a bad thing for thing for a new uspsa competitor to start in open. It might not be for everyone but i feel i will be fine as it will all be a learning experience for a while. Part of me building an open gun is simply because i want one, and i want to see how it feels to shoot. If i get it running good and all is well i might just start in open, if it's a disaster i'll put it on hold and go production. Either way, i feel like the people on this forum are the best people to ask questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuentesd99 Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 IMHO, I think that the reason why the bullets are hitting high has to do with the barrel fit. A worn out barrel will not give you good groups at 25 yards, they would be all over the place. How old is this gun? How many rounds downrange have you put through it? And when you do get an optic there would be no major concern, but the high hits is strange. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 I'v read from a few people on here that it's not necessarily a bad thing for thing for a new uspsa competitor to start in open. There's a good chance you've heard that from me I'm just warning you to go into it with your eyes wide open; I shoot Open and I spend a lot of money. The equipment is more money, the components are more money, there's more tinkering to be done, parts don't last as long, I'm just saying... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G17 Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 (edited) IMHO, I think that the reason why the bullets are hitting high has to do with the barrel fit. A worn out barrel will not give you good groups at 25 yards, they would be all over the place. How old is this gun? How many rounds downrange have you put through it? And when you do get an optic there would be no major concern, but the high hits is strange. Dave The gun is 8 months old and has performed flawlessly. It has dawson adjustables, springs,plunger, connector all been replaced, took all of the over travel/pre travel out. The trigger is nice . I just purchased the barrel and comp used off the classifieds here. The gentleman says around 2,500 rounds through the set, i am however questioning that because there is significant wear on the barrel, and the rifling is very shallow. I'm not upset though, it was a semi-decent deal, and a lot of threaded barrels for the G17 are out of stock at the moment. I posted a thread maybe a few weeks ago about barrel and compensators and where to find one, someone replied with a link to the classified section and i bought it on the spot. Yesterday was my first trial run with the products so i wasn't quite sure what to expect. If it's the fit of the barrel theres probably not much i can do right? Considering it is basically a drop in barrel, and has allready been used in someone elses pistol? When you guys take into consideration the fit of a barrel, are you looking at how tight the barrel fits through the hole in the front of the slide when it's locked down. or are you looking at how it fits in the locking block, or is there something else? It does group well, i'll just have to figure out how to adjust the poa. I'v never used a red dot before. I assume its not too hard to adjust one? I will be getting one of carvers mounts and either the cmore railway or slide ride. Not really sure the difference between the two. Edited November 6, 2013 by G17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G17 Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 I'v read from a few people on here that it's not necessarily a bad thing for thing for a new uspsa competitor to start in open. There's a good chance you've heard that from me I'm just warning you to go into it with your eyes wide open; I shoot Open and I spend a lot of money. The equipment is more money, the components are more money, there's more tinkering to be done, parts don't last as long, I'm just saying... I understand. It's all fun for me, i just have to do it at a different pace. Even if i never had any intention on competing i think i'd still be buying all this stuff because it's just fun to buy parts, and upgrade, and tinker. That's kind of why i want to start in open. It's hard for me to keep a pistol stock. I like the idea of the no boundaries. I spoke with the match director for my area on the phone for like 2 hours a few weeks ago. He mentioned every possible thing he could think of that i should know about my first match. I told him i was interested in maybe just starting in open and he said that he gets a lot of guys that run in open, knowing they're not ever going to be competitive, but do it because they enjoy their juiced up pistols and just have a lot of fun shooting them. It gave me some confidence that i'll be ok. Although, i have a very competitive spirit so i know i'll want to push harder. I'm really looking forward to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G17 Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 (edited) retracted this post. Edited November 6, 2013 by G17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 That's a good question. DC ammo used to make it before going out of business. AAA used to make something close but quit making it. The big problem with shooting 9MAJOR is that you just about have to reload. And you really have to be careful having somebody load it for you. 9MAJOR is not to be trifled with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 There have been some in the past, I'm not sure if anyone still does. Atlanta Arms comes to mind, but I just checked their website and they only sell Major ammo in .38 super, just minor for 9mm. DC Ammo is another: it looks like they don't sell 9 Major either, but they do have some decent pricing for those who don't reload.The trouble is that the 9mm Major ammo most of us shoot far exceeds any manufacturers' recommendations for pressure, so it's hard to ask companies to take on that kind of liability for no more profit that they could earn making standard ammo (which I'm sure most of them have a hard time keeping on the shelves anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Sarge beat me to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G17 Posted November 6, 2013 Author Share Posted November 6, 2013 Haha, ya i tried to deleted the post before ya'll read it because i figured it was a stupid question. I'm surfing the web for info on it and it's all basically saying it needs to be reloaded and you really have to take great caution when doing so. That makes sense about the liability issues. I really appreciate your replies. I'm equally excited about getting into reloading as i am competing, but i think that getting the equipment together and learning how to properly reload, (especially reload 9major) might take some time. That's why i was wondering if maybe it could be purchased somewhere but it doesn't look like thats the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 Here's the advice I give to new shooters wanting to get into reloading: make friends. If you go to a USPSA match, chances are good at least half the people there are reloaders; talk them, make friends, and maybe offer to trade them components for a reloading lesson. I'll bet there would be at least one shooter willing to let you reload with them on a regular basis; they provide the machine and you bring lunch, or components, or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted November 6, 2013 Share Posted November 6, 2013 more concerning is that money is tight and you're diving into Open... . It might be a few months before i even make it to a match If you're waiting for your OPEN gun to be ready before you attend your first match, I'd scrub that idea and jump in - go to a match this month - with whatever you have, and enjoy shooting matches. If you don't have time to go to a weekend match, then enjoy your new hobby of creating an OPEN gun and learning to reload 9mm major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G17 Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 Here's the advice I give to new shooters wanting to get into reloading: make friends. If you go to a USPSA match, chances are good at least half the people there are reloaders; talk them, make friends, and maybe offer to trade them components for a reloading lesson. I'll bet there would be at least one shooter willing to let you reload with them on a regular basis; they provide the machine and you bring lunch, or components, or something like that. That's excellent advice. I will certainly remember that when i go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G17 Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 more concerning is that money is tight and you're diving into Open... . It might be a few months before i even make it to a match If you're waiting for your OPEN gun to be ready before you attend your first match, I'd scrub that idea and jump in - go to a match this month - with whatever you have, and enjoy shooting matches. If you don't have time to go to a weekend match, then enjoy your new hobby of creating an OPEN gun and learning to reload 9mm major. Hah, unfortunately i haven't had a Saturday or Sunday off in over a year because i work for a restaurant. I requested off for the fourth Saturday of this month to make my first match. Hopefully i get it off, and if i do, i'm going and just running what i have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 If it shoots good groups then the barrel is ok, why not just put a higher front sight on it ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G17 Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 If it shoots good groups then the barrel is ok, why not just put a higher front sight on it ?? i guess i could, i'm just not that thrilled about spending 45 bucks on the same front sight i just bought less then a month ago. I'll just run it as is and wait until i can have a dot riding piggy back on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G17 Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 My recoil springs should be here tommorow, i hope. If they do i'm going to go to the range and test it out. I think i'll bring my go pro to take a video of it or something to show you guys what it's doing. Never tried to take a video at the range. Should be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve RA Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 See if anyone you know that has a Glock might have a higher front sight laying around. Most of the shooters I know have all sorts of stuff laying around if they have been at it for a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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