Material to use to Fill Up HP Cavity?

[Religious Shooter]

It's for a .40 S&W. All the lead free rounds I'm finding for .40 are HP's (Barnes and COP). I want more penetration so I'm looking to fill up the cavity in a HP bullet.

What kind of material can I use? The material has to be lead free.

Or are there any lead free bullets out there that are no HP's that I'm missing?

Thanks.

(If you care... California will require lead free projectiles for all hunting in a couple of years/months. Basically, while hunting, all the rounds carried must be lead free. This will be for a back-up/defensive pistol when I'm hunting with a rimfire or airgun or just hiking. From what I've read, penetration can be more important than expansion for animals. I would probably use a mixture of filled and unfilled rounds.)

[jmorris]

Tungsten has a lower atomic mass than lead but would be a good choice for penetration.

Uranium has a higher atomic mass than lead and if you can get your hands on some would be a great choice.

Mercury is really close to lead in mass but might give more of a splat, as it is liquid unless your hunting areas where the temp is -37 F.

Gold is also close to lead in mass just a tad less than Mercury but would give a more lead like performance.

Now this is the rub, in Commiefornia all of the choices above, except gold, would likely be illegal too. They really just don't want you shooting.

[Steve RA]

Just fill the cavity with epoxy, until you can move out of California.

[Religious Shooter]

Blah. I got 15 more years before I retire.

AZ had a law like this pass before it was repealed or something. It can happen anywhere.

Any specific epoxy I could use?

I was thinking of something the plumbers use.

[Steve RA]

Whatever is the least expensive one, get the kind that comes in two containers, mix and put in the cavity.

[Pat Miles]

Epoxy is going to be extremely labor intensive. How about high temperature RTV. Just squirt it in the cavity and wipe off the excess. It might be more accepting of 0 to 12 bazillion MPH acceleration also.

Pat

[juan]

if you go the uranium route please make sure tts depleated,

[DWFAN]

I would think that anything you use, will possibly aid in expansion unless you find a way to get a perfect bond with the bullet.

Maybe look into a casting kit and make your own solid copper bullets?

[jmorris]

Maybe look into a casting kit and make your own solid copper bullets?

You can't say that without a "how to" or at least pics.

[DWFAN]

Maybe look into a casting kit and make your own solid copper bullets?

You can't say that without a "how to" or at least pics.

Probably cant, but it was an idea.

Edited November 5, 2013 by DWFAN

[jmorris]

You wouldn't want to use a lee mold, they would melt 700 degrees F before the copper would. Copper is melts at almost 2000 degrees. Be better to just machine the bullets from bar stock.

[GuildSF4]

if you go the uranium route please make sure tts depleated,

Anyone else really know what depleted uranium means?

[GuildSF4]

Be better to just machine the bullets from bar stock.

That could be expensive...

[Steve RA]

That may be why some of the solid rifle bullets are fairly high priced.

[TonyK]

if you go the uranium route please make sure tts depleated,

Anyone else really know what depleted uranium means?

"depleted" uranium is a byproduct of processing uranium for reactors and weapons use, "reactor depleted" uranium is uranium that has been used up making energy. Has to do with the isotopes that are in the stuff naturally and what you end up with after processing.

As a side note, someone mentioned the density of Gold as being close to lead, not true it is actually much heavier than lead. A cubic foot of lead weighs around 700lbs, a cubic foot of gold weighs closer to 1200lbs.

And no none of them are suitable for the OP's use....

[SlowShooter]

someone mentioned the density of Gold as being close to lead, not true it is actually much heavier than lead. A cubic foot of lead weighs around 700lbs, a cubic foot of gold weighs closer to 1200lbs.

----------

Gold nuggets were used by the natives in Alaska for bullets (Muzzleloaders / Muskets back then), before all the Miners came-in and said "we use that stuff as money".

Edited November 6, 2013 by SlowShooter

[blind bat]

Here you go:

http://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_4&products_id=782

[razorfish]

Copper bullets are generally swaged from copper wire. You will see massive spools of copper wire in Barnes factory videos.

I would use silver to fill in the hollow points... From what I understand the silver is quite effective when hunting werewolves

[kneelingatlas]

How about some lead free soldier?

[HighCountryStalker]

For the purposes the OP mentions which is to decrease expansion thereby increasing penetration you're wasting your time. Without a significant bonding process your not going to accomplish anything except screw up the expansion by making it unpredictable. Possibly, some Marine Epoxy that bonds to metal might minimally slow expansion but the time invested as well as what that might do to accuracy hardly seems worth it.

C'mon, you're in California. What are you planning on running into that a .40 s&w hollow point won't stop?

[Ming the Merciless]

It's for a .40 S&W. All the lead free rounds I'm finding for .40 are HP's (Barnes and COP). I want more penetration so I'm looking to fill up the cavity in a HP bullet.

What kind of material can I use? The material has to be lead free.

Or are there any lead free bullets out there that are no HP's that I'm missing?

Thanks.

(If you care... California will require lead free projectiles for all hunting in a couple of years/months. Basically, while hunting, all the rounds carried must be lead free. This will be for a back-up/defensive pistol when I'm hunting with a rimfire or airgun or just hiking. From what I've read, penetration can be more important than expansion for animals. I would probably use a mixture of filled and unfilled rounds.)

Measure the cavity diameter. If it's .220" or under you could use steel shot. $16 bucks buys 6,000+ .220 diameter steel shot.

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Steel-Shot/products/70/

If it's over .220" you could use steel ball bearings. $5 bucks for 100

http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/CTGY/LooseSteelBalls

With either one it's easy to prove non-lead content with a magnet.

Pick a size that's a press fit into the hollow point, then lightly swage the cavity lip after insertion to guarantee retention.

[Ming the Merciless]

For the purposes the OP mentions which is to decrease expansion thereby increasing penetration you're wasting your time. Without a significant bonding process your not going to accomplish anything except screw up the expansion by making it unpredictable. Possibly, some Marine Epoxy that bonds to metal might minimally slow expansion but the time invested as well as what that might do to accuracy hardly seems worth it.

C'mon, you're in California. What are you planning on running into that a .40 s&w hollow point won't stop?

Bears

[kneelingatlas]

What are you planning on running into that a .40 s&w hollow point won't stop?

Bears

I dunno, I was told by a hunter who's killed more animals than I've seen that hollow points penetrate fur and hide very poorly. I went on an Elk Hunt in Montana where bears were a threat and the guides suggested nothing smaller than a .44 magnum for a sidearm although they said pepper spray was much more effective against predatory animals.

Just look at the ballistic data (http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/ballistics/2013-Standard-Ballistics.pdf). Handguns don't fire projectiles with anywhere close to the energy of a rifle; a 180gr bullet from a .40 S&W has 361 ftlbs of muzzle energy, a 180gr bullet from a 30-06 has 3,178! Hell, a 35gr .22 Hornet bullet leaves the muzzle with 732 ftlbs of muzzle energy and I'm not sure I'd want to face an angry poodle with a .22 Hornet in my hands!

[kneelingatlas]

Hornady has a HITS (Hornady Index of Terminal Standards) calculator to help hunters match their weapon to the game they plan to kill: http://www.hornady.com/hits/calculator

The .40 S&W scores a HITS factor of 261; the minimum HITS factor recommended for animals over 50 lbs is 501 and 1,501 for dangerous game.

[Whoops!]

In addition, regardless of if it's a hollow point or not, the all copper bullets weigh less, further hampering penetration.

That all being said, there have been many cases where people have killed large predatory animals with defensive handgun calibers. I just don't know of any that have done it with an all copper bullet.

Something I learned about California, the state seems to be trying to kill it's people while simultaneously claiming it's protecting the condor.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Whoops!