kmca Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) Yes, I noticed they approved wording of 3.3.1, that's not going to make a lot of Open and Limited shooters very happy around here Edited October 9, 2013 by kmca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Yes, I noticed they approved wording of 3.3.1, that's not going to make a lot of Open and Limited shooters very happy around here Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Yes, I noticed they approved wording of 3.3.1, that's not going to make a lot of Open and Limited shooters very happy around here As it stands now the rule has no effect on CA. NY is basically the only state it effects. They have a hard limit. CA still has mags that are allowed preban. The rule doesn't apply. If CA goes full retard and only allows LE to have high caps, then it would apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmca Posted October 9, 2013 Author Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) Yes, I noticed they approved wording of 3.3.1, that's not going to make a lot of Open and Limited shooters very happy around here Why? Unless I'm reading it wrong? "...the lesser of law limitations or division limitations...Individuals exempt from the law restrictions must still comply..." Edited October 9, 2013 by kmca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 (edited) Yes, I noticed they approved wording of 3.3.1, that's not going to make a lot of Open and Limited shooters very happy around here Why? Unless I'm reading it wrong? "...the lesser of law limitations or division limitations...Individuals exempt from the law restrictions must still comply..." Motion: To re-word 3.3.1 to read: In jurisdictions where competitors are restricted by law to maximum magazine capacity, the maximum capacity allowed in the contest, per division, will be the lesser of said law limitations or division limitations. Individuals exempt from the law restrictions must still comply with this section. Any such limitations must be made known to all competitors by the Match Director/Range Master before the start of the match. At least for now, there is no limit on mag capacities in California, so this rule does not apply. Edited October 9, 2013 by ChuckS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AS350Driver Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 It affects NJ, 15 round limit, no pre-ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Two questions The way I read it, but I want it clarified, 3.3.1 is a must not a may, correct? What happens who states that have grandfathering? Does the new 9.11.1 mean that if practiscore can generate classifier submission files we no longer need to use ezwinwcore in the loop at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFO Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Kyle or Chuck, Can you give us a little more clarification on this one. Being from Cali, will we not be able to shoot Limited or Open in USPSA matches? "In jurisdictions where competitors are restricted by law to maximum magazine capacity, the maximum capacity allowed in the contest, per division, will be the lesser of said law limitations or division limitations. Individuals exempt from the law restrictions must still comply with this section. Any such limitations must be made known to all competitors by the Match Director/Range Master before the start of the match." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermoto Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) As it stands now the rule has no effect on CA. NY is basically the only state it effects. They have a hard limit. CA still has mags that are allowed preban. The rule doesn't apply. If CA goes full retard and only allows LE to have high caps, then it would apply. So as someone voting on the rules, you don't know what states are affected by the rule change? Edited October 10, 2013 by Supermoto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFO Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 http://www.uspsa.org/bodminutes/20131009.pdf Highlights (not official, just a brief summary): - USPSA Revolver division will be changed to allow 8-shot guns in Minor Power Factor (along with 6-shot guns that can score Major). - New 2014 rule book approved. IIRC, no major changes from what has been out there for review. We did keep in a couple of the Level I match exemptions that were slated to be taken out (mover presentation and painting steel). Plus, a rule for where ammo capacity is restricted by law. - New guns for the Production gun list will have a new form with some clarity added. - For Steel Challenge, a division was added. Open Revolver. - For Steel Challenge, a bit of clarity was added saying that you can paint the post of the stop plate to differentiate it as the stop plate. - Practiscore was approved as an official scoring program. ** The new rule book and division change (Revo-Minor8) will start on February 01, 2014 (Florida shooters take note. You will have one major match in January and another in February.) Why not start it in the 1st day of the year? ...timing of the announcement per the by-laws. We have to get the division change into Front Sight Magazine, then it needs 3 months. That is just a quick summary from memory (my notes are at home). If you have any specific question, please start a new thread on the specific topic. Sorry, I posted this question on the Revo Forum before I saw this. Can you explain this a little more, will Limited and Open not be able to be shot in my home State of California as currently written. "Plus, a rule for where ammo capacity is restricted by law." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Kyle or Chuck, Can you give us a little more clarification on this one. Being from Cali, will we not be able to shoot Limited or Open in USPSA matches? "In jurisdictions where competitors are restricted by law to maximum magazine capacity, the maximum capacity allowed in the contest, per division, will be the lesser of said law limitations or division limitations. Individuals exempt from the law restrictions must still comply with this section. Any such limitations must be made known to all competitors by the Match Director/Range Master before the start of the match." Cali is still fine. The only thing this applies to is states where there is a hard capacity limit except for certain groups like LE. If citizens in the state can legally own it they can shoot it. The rule was to prevent LEOs or Military from going to, say New York and smoking everyone with big sticks in Open because everyone else is limited to 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFO Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) Kyle or Chuck, Can you give us a little more clarification on this one. Being from Cali, will we not be able to shoot Limited or Open in USPSA matches? "In jurisdictions where competitors are restricted by law to maximum magazine capacity, the maximum capacity allowed in the contest, per division, will be the lesser of said law limitations or division limitations. Individuals exempt from the law restrictions must still comply with this section. Any such limitations must be made known to all competitors by the Match Director/Range Master before the start of the match." Cali is still fine. The only thing this applies to is states where there is a hard capacity limit except for certain groups like LE. If citizens in the state can legally own it they can shoot it. The rule was to prevent LEOs or Military from going to, say New York and smoking everyone with big sticks in Open because everyone else is limited to 10. Well, I respectfully disagree. I just started shooting this year, I don't have the opportunity to get HiCaps for my Glock to shoot Limited. Yeah, I know kits! I have 3, but you see the point I'm trying to make. Perhaps this would have been better left alone, or was this done to CYA the USPSA............... Edited October 10, 2013 by UFO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 UFO, Isn't there pending legislation in Kalifornia to criminalize anyone with high capacity magazines? I believe there are a few other states that have followed this plan as well... All I can say is welcome to revolver division Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 As it stands now the rule has no effect on CA. NY is basically the only state it effects. They have a hard limit. CA still has mags that are allowed preban. The rule doesn't apply. If CA goes full retard and only allows LE to have high caps, then it would apply. So as someone voting on the rules, you don't know what states are affected by the rule change? Do I know the intricacies of every states asinine gun regulations, no. I keep up to speed on the laws in my area. I have no idea if NJ has a hard limit or if they allow higher cap mags from a preban perspective. It also applies to Hawaii but they've been dealing with this for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFO Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) UFO, Isn't there pending legislation in Kalifornia to criminalize anyone with high capacity magazines? I believe there are a few other states that have followed this plan as well... All I can say is welcome to revolver division No, that one did not pass. There are several others sitting on Gov. Moonbeams desk. He has till the 13th, I believe, to sign them into law or they go away. He is a gun owner himself, so I don't think he will be too dangerous. I pick up my 627 next Tuesday............ Edited October 10, 2013 by UFO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 The rule was to prevent LEOs or Military from going to, say New York and smoking everyone with big sticks in Open because everyone else is limited to 10. Was this a problem? Also I fear the board may be out of touch with the reality on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I guess I'm late to the party but I have a question...say I'm shooting in NJ and I put 16 rounds in a mag where their Limit is 15. I can't be bumped to open because it wouldn't be legal there anymore either. Is it a DQ? Does the MD immediately call the Feds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I have another hypothetical question .. In NJ the limit is 15. Now we shoot L-15 and O-15 as per the new rule. Johnny Lawdog, experienced USPSA shooter, law abiding citizen, has 16rd mags for his <insert gun here> and he shoots it in limited. One day he mistakenly loads 16 in the mag and the RO notices. Under the current rules the RO says "Sorry Lawdog, you have just been bumped to open". Under the new rules he says "Ummm .. hum.. err .. wtf?" Forget the state law for a minute and think USPSA law. What do I do with Limited or Open shooter that break that new rule? Do I give him a procedural? Do I give him a zero stage? Do I DQ him? Do I blink at him with a confused look on my face? What is the penalty for accidentally breaking that rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Yes and if they mistakenly load one too many what division to you move them to? Cause open ain't it anymore. What is the penalty for mistakenly breaking this rule? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I have another hypothetical question .. In NJ the limit is 15. Now we shoot L-15 and O-15 as per the new rule. Johnny Lawdog, experienced USPSA shooter, law abiding citizen, has 16rd mags for his <insert gun here> and he shoots it in limited. One day he mistakenly loads 16 in the mag and the RO notices. Under the current rules the RO says "Sorry Lawdog, you have just been bumped to open". Under the new rules he says "Ummm .. hum.. err .. wtf?" Forget the state law for a minute and think USPSA law. What do I do with Limited or Open shooter that break that new rule? Do I give him a procedural? Do I give him a zero stage? Do I DQ him? Do I blink at him with a confused look on my face? What is the penalty for accidentally breaking that rule? Not DNROI but I would say shoot for no score just like having a 175 mm mag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Yes and if they mistakenly load one too many what division to you move them to? Cause open ain't it anymore. What is the penalty for mistakenly breaking this rule? Is there any chance we can just pick one thread to discuss this? Kind of done answering the same question in three different threads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 A member of the BOD asked for a thread for discussing the new rule concerning magazine capacity in restricted states. (3.3.1.) Sorry this thread is a little hard to read. Pulling posts from multiple threads, the time stamp still determines the post order, making things a little disjointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Is there a draft version you could post to start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) Is there a draft version you could post to start? The link in post #9 of this new thread will get you there. ETA: Here is the excerpt from the minutes: "Motion: To re-word 3.3.1 to read: In jurisdictions where competitors are restricted by law to maximum magazine capacity, the maximum capacity allowed in the contest, per division, will be the lesser of said law limitations or division limitations. Individuals exempt from the law restrictions must still comply with this section. Any such limitations must be made known to all competitors by the Match Director/Range Master before the start of the match." Edited October 10, 2013 by ChuckS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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