Akacala Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 I'm thinking about shooting CDP next year and taking advantage of being able to shoot one gun at a classifier for multiple divisions. So I'm looking for a SSP legal 45. I currently shoot a CZ 75 shadow in ESP and woud like to stick with something similar, not a polymer like an XDm or M&P though. Thinking of a CZ 97 or a Tangfoglio, but thought I'd crowd source for any other ideas. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 The 97B will be legal on 01 October when the new rulebook comes into effect, as would the equivalent Tanfoglio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newmexicocrawler Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 I just did this last weekend, qualified in all 3 with my stock g21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterpuc Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 Same here used a M&P 45 with 170PF ammo. I shot terrible, but I'm good for another year now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akacala Posted October 16, 2013 Author Share Posted October 16, 2013 I have a CZ 97 on the way...so soonish I will be doing this as planned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) How much does the 97 weigh with a mag? Also you know you'll have to shoot double action in ESP and CDP right? Edited October 16, 2013 by steel1212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterpuc Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 How much does the 97 weigh with a mag? Also you know you'll have to shoot double action in ESP and CDP right? I have a CZ 97 on the way...so soonish I will be doing this as planned 2 similar issues to mind: 1. Weight, the website lists it at 2.540# (40.64 oz). Most empty magazines weight 3.0+ ounces.... It may not make weight in its stock form. 2. I don't know if the CZ, can be carried in a "cocked and locked" position. I do see that the gun has a safety, but I don't know if it decocks when it is "in safe". Point being you may have to start in DA no matter which division you shoot in. I would really like to know how this works out.... I have been interested in purchasing a CZ97 also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 How much does the 97 weigh with a mag? Also you know you'll have to shoot double action in ESP and CDP right? I have a CZ 97 on the way...so soonish I will be doing this as planned 2 similar issues to mind:1. Weight, the website lists it at 2.540# (40.64 oz). Most empty magazines weight 3.0+ ounces.... It may not make weight in its stock form. 2. I don't know if the CZ, can be carried in a "cocked and locked" position. I do see that the gun has a safety, but I don't know if it decocks when it is "in safe". Point being you may have to start in DA no matter which division you shoot in. I would really like to know how this works out.... I have been interested in purchasing a CZ97 also. Pretty much all CZ that I know of are withered designed cocked and locked or with a decocker. That's not my point though. For any gun with a full length metal dustcover it has to be ssp legal before it can shoot in ESP or CDP. BUT if you shoot it in ESP or CDP it has to conform to ssp rules including start condition which is double action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterpuc Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 How much does the 97 weigh with a mag? Also you know you'll have to shoot double action in ESP and CDP right? I have a CZ 97 on the way...so soonish I will be doing this as planned 2 similar issues to mind:1. Weight, the website lists it at 2.540# (40.64 oz). Most empty magazines weight 3.0+ ounces.... It may not make weight in its stock form. 2. I don't know if the CZ, can be carried in a "cocked and locked" position. I do see that the gun has a safety, but I don't know if it decocks when it is "in safe". Point being you may have to start in DA no matter which division you shoot in. I would really like to know how this works out.... I have been interested in purchasing a CZ97 also. Pretty much all CZ that I know of are withered designed cocked and locked or with a decocker. That's not my point though. For any gun with a full length metal dustcover it has to be ssp legal before it can shoot in ESP or CDP. BUT if you shoot it in ESP or CDP it has to conform to ssp rules including start condition which is double action. Gotcha, good point. I would need to read the rules again. You are saying that the only reason (assuming it makes weight) it is legal in ESP and CDP is because it is legal in SSP and is a 45acp with 165PF. And because of that, it has to be in a "SSP start position"? Interesting, I haven't thought of it that way... sounds logical. Side note, you can have weight removed internally and still be legal in SSP right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 (edited) That would be illegal. 1) that would no longer allow for SSP since you modified a permenant part of the gun 2) slide lightening is illegal for ESP and CDP. You are permitted some slide work, but they would be on the exterior and considered aesthitics. The rulebook has more details. Edited October 16, 2013 by v1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdawgbeav Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 XDM 5.25 or 4.5... just watch the alterations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterpuc Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 That would be illegal. 1) that would no longer allow for SSP since you modified a permenant part of the gun 2) slide lightening is illegal for ESP and CDP. You are permitted some slide work, but they would be on the exterior and considered aesthitics. The rulebook has more details. So, if you were to remove weight from the frame it would be legal for ESP/CDP only. Right? Kind of like make your 1911 make weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted October 17, 2013 Share Posted October 17, 2013 How much does the 97 weigh with a mag? Also you know you'll have to shoot double action in ESP and CDP right? Wrong. 8.2.2.1.6.2. Selective DA/SA firearms will start cocked and locked or de-cocked. This is the shooter’s discretion, including firearms using the SSP into ESP rule. 8.2.3.1.6.2. Selective DA/SA firearms will start cocked and locked or de-cocked. This is the shooter’s discretion, including firearms using the SSP into CDP rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v1911 Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 That would be illegal. 1) that would no longer allow for SSP since you modified a permenant part of the gun 2) slide lightening is illegal for ESP and CDP. You are permitted some slide work, but they would be on the exterior and considered aesthitics. The rulebook has more details. So, if you were to remove weight from the frame it would be legal for ESP/CDP only. Right? Kind of like make your 1911 make weight. I'm not familiar with anyone removing weight from the frame of their 1911 to make weight. Some might opt for an aluminum magwell/MSH to save weight and be legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted October 18, 2013 Share Posted October 18, 2013 To remove weight from the frame of a 1911, one of the trends is to open the apertures in the grip. I don't know how much weight would be saved though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akacala Posted October 22, 2013 Author Share Posted October 22, 2013 Well, I asked CZ Custom to make sure the 97 made 43 oz before they did any work on it, It should be at my ffl on Wed so I'll keep people updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterpuc Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Well, I asked CZ Custom to make sure the 97 made 43 oz before they did any work on it, It should be at my ffl on Wed so I'll keep people updated. Again, I am quite curious about this particular firearm. I want another 45acp, and preferably one that can take on multi divisions. I have seriously been looking at the M&P 45. I considered the CZ97 years ago, but never looked at it again. If you have to have the Custom shop make modifications to it to get it under the 43 oz with an empty magazine, you will not be able to shoot it in SSP. Keep that in your considerations. At that point it will not be a "production" gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akacala Posted October 25, 2013 Author Share Posted October 25, 2013 (edited) Custom shop is just doing sights and trigger work. Friend got his, with no work done, and its at 41.something oz. (edit: that is with mag) Edited October 25, 2013 by Akacala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterpuc Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Akacala, how did your project CZ97 come out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertbank Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 (edited) If you go to CZ UB or CZ USA the weight of the gun is listed and it does make weight. You will want large hands to shoot the 97B comfortably. I have one and have debated about spending the money to improve the sights along with purchasing a holster, another mag holder and one more magazine. The gun will shoot with the best 1911's for accuracy, just a very big gun ....grip wise. I am curious to know why so many seem to think the gun has to be shot hammer down in ESP. Even the 2005 RB allowed for C&L shooting with DA/SA guns in ESP and CDP. The new rule book makes it clearer than the old book but still..... Take Care Bob. Edited September 17, 2014 by robertbank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elguapo Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 I am curious to know why so many seem to think the gun has to be shot hammer down in ESP. Even the 2005 RB allowed for C&L shooting with DA/SA guns in ESP and CDP. The new rule book makes it clearer than the old book but still..... Read the rules? Why? Just make up crap as you go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butterpuc Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) If you go to CZ UB or CZ USA the weight of the gun is listed and it does make weight. The weight was one of the reasons I was concerned. The weight is listed at 2.54lb which is 40.64oz (under weight) but it didn't say whether that was with an empty magazine. If not, it probably will not make weight, it seems like most steel double stack magazines weight ~3.5oz. Edited September 20, 2014 by Butterpuc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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