How fast?

[kurtm]

Wow, I have been out fonted out bolded and out underlined...well played sir, well played!

[P.E. Kelley]

Dude! (Kurt) half of what I know about practical shotgunning I learned from watching you!

[APL-G35]

Okay 8 in 6 seconds is the goal now. Now can anyone point me and others in the right direction to learn the finer points of shotgunning? I can't get to many matches. In fact I've only ever shot 3 local 3 gun matches but I want to be competitive. Are there any good instructional videos on the use of slugs or how and where to load them as far as strategy goes? And I know get out and practice.

[Therealkoop]

Every slug Ive ever fired in a match was dictated by the stage plan. There was never a time I had to "decide" to switch to a slug. I wouldn't worry about that so much. As far as switching to a slug Ive used side saddles and match savers for things like that.

[goat68]

I'm with the miss less load less group. There's also stage breakdown to look for potential doubles on plates and decisions on how to take poppers with flippers in groups or singles, when to move and when to load, etc. I watched Mike Gibson have great shotgun runs at Ironman loading his shotgun from an old school chest rig that held the shells individually. That's one at a time. He shot at what I call medium speed but he never missed or took extra shots.

And remember that the other two disciplines count towards competiveness also.

[co-exprs]

I can drop shells 1 per second. Does that count for anything? LOL, I'm in the same boat. Once I got to a consistant 8 shells in 6sec in match conditions, I started worrying more about hits. At RM3G, I consistently put down top 10% runs using a nova and load 2. I'm not exciting to watch, I just try to focus on doing everything well, be smooth on reloads and don't miss much. If you can focus on doing everything well the scores will take care of themselves. It's true that there are a few elite guys who will slay it every time, but as soon as you try to beat someone else, the wheels will depart the bus.

[MarkCO]

Finer points...work a major, really! You get to watch the best. Easiest way to learn is request the shotgun heavy stage. :b

[kurtm]

Pat, I was laughing when I typed that! But after we have been friends all these years, you really ought to know not to use "Dude" with me.

[P.E. Kelley]

Precisely why I used it...because we are friends, and after a couple of brews I fell-back into my old surfer days!

[sdhunterman]

Loading fast is only part of it. In my experience, shooting less than 1 for 1 is more of a match breaker than loading fast. As an example, I shot the NC match at Del-Tone. It was 275 rounds of shotgun across 14 stages. I ended up in the top 20 in tactical but I shot almost 400 rounds . If I shot closer to 300-310 rounds, my results would have been much better.

I think the guys are on track with 1 shell per second reload wise. If you can go faster, you only help your cause.

[kurtm]

One thing I have noticed though. If you load super fast, you tend to shoot like you can load super fast....kinda like having a C Mag. Case in point the post above.

[MarkCO]

So, load fast, shoot slow. You been watching me shoot?

[02Fatboy]

Hell, I can drop three or four shells in under a min. and make Kurt smile as I am doing it . But I can shot one for one went the dam beeper goes off. Shoot small miss small.

Edited September 1, 2013 by 02Fatboy

[sdhunterman]

One thing I have noticed though. If you load super fast, you tend to shoot like you can load super fast....kinda like having a C Mag. Case in point the post above.

It was all or nothing for me. I shot two stages REALLY bad early on and tried making up time. It happens to everyone at some point or another.

[EaZeNuTZ33]

why not both weak hand around 6-7 sec and quad load around 4-5?

I've noticed stages where you are going to need 2 shells loaded to finish the stage if shot clean. I reach down and snag two shells weak hand to pop in while moving and keeping the gun shouldered. Stages where I need to drop in 4, 8, or more, I flip the stock up onto my shoulder to quadload strong hand.

I've considered the techniques and caddies as tools. Sometimes I reach for a slightly smaller or larger screw driver to get that particular job done.

I'm new to this game, so my opinion is worth what you paid for it.

[JPeel]

why not both weak hand around 6-7 sec and quad load around 4-5?

I've noticed stages where you are going to need 2 shells loaded to finish the stage if shot clean. I reach down and snag two shells weak hand to pop in while moving and keeping the gun shouldered. Stages where I need to drop in 4, 8, or more, I flip the stock up onto my shoulder to quadload strong hand.

I've considered the techniques and caddies as tools. Sometimes I reach for a slightly smaller or larger screw driver to get that particular job done.

I'm new to this game, so my opinion is worth what you paid for it.

For what it's worth, I'm new to the game too but have learned how to load traditional weakhand, load-2 weakhand and stronghand, and am almost able to quadload stronghand in competition. I am more proficient at stronghand loading now but like you, see the advantage of the other methods for certain conditions. So each practice session, I do at least three loads from my "secondary methods".

But going 1 for 1 on the targets sure seems to help me more now than being faster at loading.

Edited August 31, 2013 by JPeel

[EaZeNuTZ33]

Don't forget the MatchSaver too!

9 targets, 9 in the gun on the start....miss one and either method is slower if you only need one round.

[Jesse Tischauser]

Is anybody really doing sub 4'S shot, reload 8, shot, in competition? I'm talking on the move 4-5yds not static.

How do you measure that? After a stage they don't read off your reload times they read off you're stage time. The only thing we can measure and compare here on the forums is our practice times. If I can load 12 shells under 6 seconds standing still but Billy Bob can only load 6 it's relevant. If you add movement into the mix all loading methods slow down and get less reliable because you're doing multiple things at once.

I would say that you must be able to load a shell per second to be competitive. You may also be able to shoot on the move, cut .20 splits or better and never miss.

[APL-G35]

Is anybody really doing sub 4'S shot, reload 8, shot, in competition? I'm talking on the move 4-5yds not static.

How do you measure that? After a stage they don't read off your reload times they read off you're stage time. The only thing we can measure and compare here on the forums is our practice times. If I can load 12 shells under 6 seconds standing still but Billy Bob can only load 6 it's relevant. If you add movement into the mix all loading methods slow down and get less reliable because you're doing multiple things at once.

I would say that you must be able to load a shell per second to be competitive. You may also be able to shoot on the move, cut .20 splits or better and never miss.

I agree. I see tons if claims of sub 4 second reloads on forums though and not a lot of video evidence. I also think that Keith gracias load 12 drill is more realistic because its live fire and you have to dismount the gun several times. By the way have you done a video of that drill dropping quads? I'm interested in that load method, guys are reloading in some real fast times but it looks relaxed and smooth. Also do you think the fumble factor is much higher with quads than dueces?

[ClutchUSMC]

I look at their splits while I ro. Not every shooter every time, but I've looked at shot to shot splits on people reloading or moving to a position plenty of time to try and figure out where I'm at and what I need to work on.

The main reason I started ROing was to watch better shooters. Now I can't go anywhere without someone tossing me the timer.

[Onepocket]

I was hoping that a lot more top shooters would have posted video of themselves shooting the Load 12 Challenge that Garcia put up. Some people showed there loading but not that they hit anything.

[P.E. Kelley]

I am not much for "reloading masturbation" videos. So I'll share this is from one of the Nordic Components shotgun matches.

[firemantj]

"reloading masturbation"

Thanks, Pat.

I will be using this term a LOT.

[Onepocket]

Call those videos what ever you want, by watching K. Garcia and K Miller is how I learned to load a shotgun. I live on the east coast and can't afford to travel around the country to shoot in the matches. As I know of those are the only guys that have video showing what there loading technique can do.

[kurtm]

I would have more loading video, but I tend to practice alone, so no video. I am also not part of the "cell phone" culture so I tend not to think in recording for self agrandizement, I have done Keith's drill a few times and since I don't drop the gun from the shoulder to load, my times are somewhat on the fast side, but it has been a while since I did them so I can't remember what the times were and they wouldn't count anyway as " if there aren't any pictures...it didn't happen". As I recall it was around 1/2- 1 second faster than what was posted...but who knows?