BobS761 Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 If I were to smooth off the front molded stippling on my XDm so that grip tape would lay down, would that bump me out of Production? I wouldn't be changing the contour, IMO, but only the texture. My plan would only remove the molded in ridges on the front of the grip. I just don't like the feel of it there. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 That would be changing either the shape or contour of the grip..... I don't see where it's specifically allowed as a modification in App. D4 - 21.4, and I don't believe what you propose conforms to App. D4 - 22.2: Grips – any addition or removal of material which changes the factory profile or adds function such as beavertail or thumb rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 (edited) IMO, I don't think it is changing the contour but what do I know. Does that mean that this work by PRP is not Production legal? Edited August 10, 2013 by d_striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 IMO, I don't think it is changing the contour but what do I know. Does that mean that this work by PRP is not Production legal? Where in the rules is there permission to remove material from the shape of the grip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Welcome to open! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 You can stipple a glock but you can't remove the finger grooves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 (edited) Where in the rules is there permission to remove material from the shape of the grip? The pertinent question is what constitutes a "change to the profile." By definition, "profile" or "contour" refers to the outline. I would argue that removing the factory texture is purely cosmetic and does not change the profile. Edited August 11, 2013 by d_striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Where in the rules is there permission to remove material from the shape of the grip? The pertinent question is what constitutes a "change to the profile." By definition, "profile" or "contour" refers to the outline. I would argue that removing the factory texture is purely cosmetic and does not change the profile. Care to find that definition in the rulebook? If it's not there, you're at the mercy of the RM...... I'd have to see both guns -- one unmodified, one modified. Remove molded in ridges, and my call very well might be "Welcome to Open." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 (edited) Care to find that definition in the rulebook? If it's not there, you're at the mercy of the RM...... I'd have to see both guns -- one unmodified, one modified. Remove molded in ridges, and my call very well might be "Welcome to Open." I was quoting your post from above. You're right though. Removing material is removing material, period. What if one didnt remove any material and just melted a new texture pattern into the grip? Edited August 11, 2013 by d_striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Removing maerial in not ok, stippling it is. This is another option you can get in grit or rubber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIIID Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 "Removing maerial in not ok, stippling it is" When checkering is done material is removed but checkering is legal. Why do we go through what is or should be legal and what isn't or what shouldn't be legal, once or twice a year? When all of the different styles of grip mods have been checked and reviewed by John A. and most of them have been OK'd by him years ago. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig N Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 You can stipple a glock but you can't remove the finger grooves. Getting a Gen 2 Frame would be the way to do both. You could probably argue (I am sure there's a thread here somewhere) as to if a Gen 2 or Gen 3 is the factory profile since till the Gen 4 they never said gen on the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 "Removing maerial in not ok, stippling it is" When checkering is done material is removed but checkering is legal. Why do we go through what is or should be legal and what isn't or what shouldn't be legal, once or twice a year? When all of the different styles of grip mods have been checked and reviewed by John A. and most of them have been OK'd by him years ago. Rich Sorry, it was late, and I could have ben more clear. Checkering does remove material, but should not change the profile of the frame. Last time I checked with NROI, grip reductions were not legal, and when I asked, removing the ridges were considered to be significant. You could checker the ridges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_striker Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 (edited) "Removing maerial in not ok, stippling it is" When checkering is done material is removed but checkering is legal. Why do we go through what is or should be legal and what isn't or what shouldn't be legal, once or twice a year? When all of the different styles of grip mods have been checked and reviewed by John A. and most of them have been OK'd by him years ago. Rich Where can one find said information? Edited August 11, 2013 by d_striker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 "Removing maerial in not ok, stippling it is" When checkering is done material is removed but checkering is legal. Why do we go through what is or should be legal and what isn't or what shouldn't be legal, once or twice a year? When all of the different styles of grip mods have been checked and reviewed by John A. and most of them have been OK'd by him years ago. Rich Sorry, it was late, and I could have ben more clear. Checkering does remove material, but should not change the profile of the frame. Last time I checked with NROI, grip reductions were not legal, and when I asked, removing the ridges were considered to be significant. You could checker the ridges. That's pretty much in line with how I'd call it. Checker or stipple the ridges, you're probably golden, unless you take it to an extreme that's equivalent to grinding them off.... I'd have to see the gun in question though, to make a call -- it's pretty tough to make the call from a single photo.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver_Surfer Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Welcome to open! This, pretty much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAFO Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 (edited) How about this: Production GripsCreated:5/16/12 Updated:5/24/12 Effective:5/24/12 Rule Number: Appendix D4 item Applies to: Pistol Ruling Authority: Director NROI Status:Released Question: I was wondering if an epoxy treatment filling in the voids of the grip of an XDm would violate section 22.2 of Appendix D4. Answer: 21.4 states: For semi-automatic Production guns, grip tape, grip sleeves, checkering, stippling or other texture may only be applied in the areas shown in appendix E4. Glue and grit is considered the same as stippling. The procedure offered by the vendor you referred to is nothing more than epoxy (glue) with a grit (same as stippling and therefore legal as it does not change the profile of the grip. This is from the NROI rulings: http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-NROI-ruling-details.php?indx=52 It would seem that at least filling the ridges would be legal, whether it was with grit/epoxy or smooth epoxy with grip tape applied over it. Edited August 12, 2013 by JAFO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 We submitted a grip to NROI for clarification with the above treatment. That is when we were told that since it replicates the grp tape, is was ok. We were told that if we built it up too much are did a grip reduction, that it would not be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobS761 Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share Posted August 12, 2013 Removing maerial in not ok, stippling it is. This is another option you can get in grit or rubber. This will solve my delima^^^^ I just don't like the texture on front of the XDm grip. And, at least in my experience, it gets smoother with use, lessening it's efficacy, but still doesn't feel good in my hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Removing maerial in not ok, stippling it is. This is another option you can get in grit or rubber. This will solve my delima^^^^ I just don't like the texture on front of the XDm grip. And, at least in my experience, it gets smoother with use, lessening it's efficacy, but still doesn't feel good in my hand. We have a rubber version also. It is very thin and holds well and we went through a lot of samples before settling on it (because it had to satisfy my wife's requirements.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bthoefer Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 (edited) Does it matter that Springfield's custom shop offers a grip / stippling job straight from the factory which has the ridges on the front and back strap removed ? I think one could argue since the grip is available from Springfield in that configuration (although stippled not grip taped) without the molded checkering, that removing making the same modification yourself is legal. It is not changing the profile. You could also argue that that is the factory profile, since there is no way for the RO to know if your gun came from Springfield's custom shop or not. I tried to post a link, but Springfield's sight doesn't work from a smartphone. There is a picture in the current catalog that shows the stippling/ grip treatment on an xdm from the Springfield custom shop. Edited August 18, 2013 by bthoefer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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