BobS761 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 What would be a reasonable par time to draw and dry fire for a D shooter trying to improve. I'm trying 1.5 seconds and really rushing the trigger pull. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CE325 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I'm a D and I'm at 1.0 consistently. And have been at .7 a few times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobS761 Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 Dang, I suck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris iliff Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I would suggest getting in front of a full length mirror and look for and eliminate any extra body movement. Also, don't worry about pulling the trigger. In fact, don't. Just get the gun out and get an acceptable sight picture, no pulling the trigger. Pulling the trigger CAN lead to rushing, which leads to bad form, which leads to training scars, which lead to............ Crap. Really a class with Mr. Anderson would be great. Or, any one with enough experience to walk through your draw and help you smooth it out. Ask around the local shooters, I'm sure they will point you to a shooter willing to help you out. The important thing is to learn a smooth correct draw stroke and train it perfectly. Getting someone with experience to help is best. Unlearning a bad habit (training scar) is a real pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CE325 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I agree. Mr Anderson's book is full of great info And drills to practice. Your arms will be hurting after one night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sliv2 Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 Forget pulling the trigger. Set the PAR to 1.2, then .8, then .6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobS761 Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 I was probably trying too much at once. This was my first day trying draws with a timer, and I was keeping both eyes open, (weakside eye dominate). But I did order Steve Anderson's dry fire book today. Thanks for the suggestions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 I was probably trying too much at once. This was my first day trying draws with a timer, and I was keeping both eyes open, (weakside eye dominate). But I did order Steve Anderson's dry fire book today. Thanks for the suggestions! Amigo, D class and first day with a timer, a 1.5 draw is just fine. Going from a 1.5 draw to a .8 requires a lot of work. All the big gains shooting at the D and C skill level are things like stage planning and execution, transitions, and movement. And even those come after just being able to walk thru the stage and shoot all A's Keep up the good work and have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45dotACP Posted July 20, 2013 Share Posted July 20, 2013 What Chris said! That's how I work my draw. But just draw, don't fire. Also, remember that while you won't win any matches from the holster, you can lose them from the holster if you don't get a good grip. Good luck and have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 (edited) Try it in steps, 1st. Beep then grab the gun. Then stop. Make sure your grip is perfect. Do this till your grip is perfect all the time. Correcting grip is time lost. A lot of time lost. 2nd. Check you index where the gun points, after draw. Work on it till you know with your index with your eyes closed. 3rd. Hand on gun start, draw gun should go straight to index. Not to high then to index, not to low then to index. Straight to index. 4th. Slowly put it all together. 5th. Do it faster and make sure your form is perfect. I don't pull the trigger in dry fire, you will have some bad habits transferred to live fire if you pull the trigger just draw to a good sight picture. I can do a .55 draw to an solid sight pic. at 3yrds, But in live fire I'm happy with .9 to 1.10 draw to first shot. If you work at it with par times, in a week or two you will be under a sec. Hope this helps, this worked for me. But other way will do the same. Edited July 21, 2013 by a matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim/GA Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 If you want a lot of practice under competition stress, shoot some steel challenge type matches. 5 draws to various size, but generally small, targets per stage means you get a lot more practice under stress than a regular match. Not to mention the work on transitions. If you think about it, a regular local match will have 5 or 6 stages and in only 1 or 2 will the draw time matter much. Most of the time you will be moving or doing something that does not require it. I have seen a real spike up in my draw and transition times since I have not been shooting steel matches the past year and a half. Wish I could more often but the steel match is on the same weekend as the other local USPSA match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56hawk Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 What distance and target size for your 1.5 second draw? For an A zone hit at 10 yards, 1.5 seconds isn't that bad. I can consistently do around 1 second at 10 yards, but that will drop to around .7 at 5 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobS761 Posted July 21, 2013 Author Share Posted July 21, 2013 Since I really have no guidance, I came up with stuff on my own. (I am now awaiting the dry fire book.) Over the winter months, I taped a metric target printed on regular sized paper on my wall, and just practiced sight picture and trigger control. Probably 10 feet away. Honestly, the results were remarkable for my accuracy. I have just started with the draw practice, at the same target. I'll estimate the A zone is 4" by 2". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcarpenter82 Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 I made some dummy rounds (bullet, case only) to load up in my mag and simulate weight of a live gun. I dont chamber a round or dry fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a matt Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 That's it, just bullets and brass! Powder and primers in the reloading room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcarpenter82 Posted July 21, 2013 Share Posted July 21, 2013 Exactly! The slow mo video also helped me see the hitch in my draw, which i credit to the holster being positioned too far forward. So i pulled it back a little on my belt and when i draw and present to target the muzzle is pointed at target from the get go, also made for a better grip as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobS761 Posted July 21, 2013 Author Share Posted July 21, 2013 I made some dummy rounds (bullet, case only) to load up in my mag and simulate weight of a live gun. I dont chamber a round or dry fire. There an idea! Thanks, Jared! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxximuss Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Practice it perfect! Speed will come... "a matt" said it great! Grab the gun perfect, meet & greet your hands perfect, and get a perfect sight picture. When you get comfortable at a speed, take it up a notch, but if it gets sloppy focus more or slow down. Post a video and I bet some of these shooters can give more advise and pointers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm a C shooter and I don't want to be anywhere a timer. I have a good feeling at this stage in the game, shaving tenths off my draw time is not what's going to get me into B, but getting all my hits and not wasting movement is. I feel like the goal on the draw should be: get a solid grip, shoot two As on the first target, repeat. How often do you tank a stage? Consistency and repeatability are just as important as speed. I can only imagine this is more true between D and C; anyone with more experience want to chime in? Edited July 24, 2013 by kneelingatlas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-the new guy Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm a C shooter and I don't want to be anywhere a timer. I have a good feeling at this stage in the game, shaving tenths off my draw time is not what's going to get me into B, but getting all my hits and not wasting movement is. I feel like the goal on the draw should be: get a solid grip, shoot two As on the first target, repeat. How often do you tank a stage? Consistency and repeatability are just as important as speed. I can only imagine this is more true between D and C; anyone with more experience want to chime in? Your .7 draw at home translates to a 2.2 in a match anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcarpenter82 Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Bob, some excellent advice on here. Im with ya buddy, id like to inprove my draw as well. Matt, I am currently trying the way you explained it. Its working imo. I was so focused on getting gun out as fast as possible to pull the trigger my grip was garbage, sight picture was never consistant. Just overall slow. Eleminating that press of trigger has enable me to focus on the techique. I watched a video of Ron Avery explaining the draw. Economy of Motion was something he repeated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) One of the local matches I shoot has stages with 25-35 rounds and 4-5 shooting positions, so for each stage you're talking about: -at least three changes of position -10+ splits -at least that many transitions -and only one draw (maybe none if you throw in the occasional table start.)So the way I see it, your best draw ever can help your score very little, but a poor/rushed draw can certainly cause problems for the whole stage. I had the pleasure of shooting side by side with a GM; what amazed me was that he didn't have a lightning draw, or machine gun splits, but he wasted no movement and never stopped moving. He was shooting on his way in and out of each shooting position, plus every movement was for a purpose. He didn't sweep past any targets, he didn't even glance where he didn't need to. Efficiency. Edited July 24, 2013 by kneelingatlas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 ^^^ And that is why he is a GM. I'd also be willing to bet that he gets 92%+ of the match points consistantly. There is a lot of insight in that last paragraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Maybe I'm crazy, but I'm a C shooter and I don't want to be anywhere a timer. I have a good feeling at this stage in the game, shaving tenths off my draw time is not what's going to get me into B, but getting all my hits and not wasting movement is. I feel like the goal on the draw should be: get a solid grip, shoot two As on the first target, repeat. How often do you tank a stage? Consistency and repeatability are just as important as speed. I can only imagine this is more true between D and C; anyone with more experience want to chime in? This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 One of the local matches I shoot has stages with 25-35 rounds and 4-5 shooting positions, so for each stage you're talking about: -at least three changes of position -10+ splits -at least that many transitions -and only one draw (maybe none if you throw in the occasional table start.) So the way I see it, your best draw ever can help your score very little, but a poor/rushed draw can certainly cause problems for the whole stage. I had the pleasure of shooting side by side with a GM; what amazed me was that he didn't have a lightning draw, or machine gun splits, but he wasted no movement and never stopped moving. He was shooting on his way in and out of each shooting position, plus every movement was for a purpose. He didn't sweep past any targets, he didn't even glance where he didn't need to. Efficiency. And right here you have nailed it. Working draw speed has its place, and it provides a very specific training/ feedback purpose, but don't be fooled that it alone will advance your game. By all means keep at it and be able to produce 15 yard sub 1sec alphas (because it feels soo good and chicks dig it) Just don't beat yourself up on draws alone, be awesome at all of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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