What to do?

[bbbean]

New as in not a master level, and yes the scoring was NOT correct. (I do know how to score and I do score our matches) I wasn't the only one who saw the errors. My question is more to the point of what is the basis if you do see this error. Do you have the right to question a score that is not on your target?

In a Level II or III match, wrong scoring affects everyone. Having been an RO/CRO with some experience, I can say 2 alphas when I should have said 2 Cs. It happens. I try to be 100% correct, but sometimes shadows, sun, or to many pasters can play tricks on you. So, yes you should identify or "ask" about scoring that does not appear correct. Level I classifiers are important at local matches.

Most of us would want the correct score recorded.

Thank you for the input. The incident that I am referring to was a husband giving his wife and a friend higher scores than they earned. It was a local match and most of the shooters there know each other. I had made a 3 hour drive and this was my first time at this match. He was called out by another local shooter and all was well after that. Trying to stay in the confines of not coming off as a jerk at a new match, I was trying to make sure I had the rules behind me to ask for a correction on a target that was not mine. As previously stated, most of those in our sport are of the highest ethical standards and this was the first time that I had seen this situation.

Sounds like the situation was handled.

[Nik Habicht]

New as in not a master level, and yes the scoring was NOT correct. (I do know how to score and I do score our matches) I wasn't the only one who saw the errors. My question is more to the point of what is the basis if you do see this error. Do you have the right to question a score that is not on your target?

You can ask for anything -- whether its granted is up to the match officals in case of a scoring issue....

I want to get the calls right, and am always happy to take another look...

[Nik Habicht]

Level I classifiers are important at local matches.

Most of us would want the correct score recorded.

Every stage matters at every match level....

[Nik Habicht]

With pasters on my fingertips, I've stopped many RO's and said, "You might want to look at that again."

Likewise, I've had people stop me and say, "You might want to look at that again."

I'm not sure there's a rule that specifically empowers me to do that, but I'm pretty sure there isn't one preventing it, either.

Do what's right.

This!

[lcs]

Level I classifiers are important at local matches. Most of us would want the correct score recorded.

Every stage matters at every match level....

I did not mean that other stages do not matter at local matches.

[High Lord Gomer]

With pasters on my fingertips, I've stopped many RO's and said, "You might want to look at that again."

If a shaven Sasquatch tells me to look at it again I definitely will!

BTW, how do you keep your fur out of the pasters?

[ima45dv8]

With pasters on my fingertips, I've stopped many RO's and said, "You might want to look at that again."

If a shaven Sasquatch tells me to look at it again I definitely will!

BTW, how do you keep your fur out of the pasters?

I shave before going to the match, of course.

[gng4life]

One thing I haven't read yet is that (to the OP) if they were very close hits to the next scoring zone. Many shooters just look at the hole that is left by the bullet but you have to take into consideration the full diameter of the caliber being shot. Once you put the overlay on most bullet shapes, you will see the diameter touching the next scoring zone. Just wondering if the hits were "on the line" or were they blatant Charlies being called as an Alpha?

[Nik Habicht]

Level I classifiers are important at local matches. Most of us would want the correct score recorded.

Every stage matters at every match level....

I did not mean that other stages do not matter at local matches.

I didn't think you did, but wanted to clarify the point, in case others got that impression.... :-)

[glandry51]

One thing I haven't read yet is that (to the OP) if they were very close hits to the next scoring zone. Many shooters just look at the hole that is left by the bullet but you have to take into consideration the full diameter of the caliber being shot. Once you put the overlay on most bullet shapes, you will see the diameter touching the next scoring zone. Just wondering if the hits were "on the line" or were they blatant Charlies being called as an Alpha?

They were indeed Charlies being called Alphas. That's kinda what threw me off. Had they been close, say a judgement of whether the scoring perforation between zones had been broken, I would have have asked for clarity. But some were blatant miss calls and why I was asking if I had the right to ask for him to rescore the target even though it was not my target.

[EEH]

I don't know but I have called many missed calls to RO attention and in all cases they were changed,so I say yes you have that right!!!

[EEH]

I go to shoot to have fun, and if cheaters won't to do that,I refuse to let it ruin my day...Sorry to say I have sen it,not often but Nuff said

[Mark R]

They were indeed Charlies being called Alphas. That's kinda what threw me off. Had they been close, say a judgement of whether the scoring perforation between zones had been broken, I would have have asked for clarity. But some were blatant miss calls and why I was asking if I had the right to ask for him to rescore the target even though it was not my target.

The bullet holes only have to "touch" the perforation...not break it.

[glandry51]

They were indeed Charlies being called Alphas. That's kinda what threw me off. Had they been close, say a judgement of whether the scoring perforation between zones had been broken, I would have have asked for clarity. But some were blatant miss calls and why I was asking if I had the right to ask for him to rescore the target even though it was not my target.

The bullet holes only have to "touch" the perforation...not break it.

I am not sure what part of this thread you are not getting. This was NOT a matter of me not knowing how to score targets. You say "touch", I say "break"...they are the same just using a different term. This WAS a case of the person not scoring correctly. My question, however, was if I have the right, by rule, to question the scoring of someone eles'e target.

I believe ima45dv8 answered it perfectly:

I'm not sure there's a rule that specifically empowers me to do that, but I'm pretty sure there isn't one preventing it, either.

[Craig N]

New as in not a master level, and yes the scoring was NOT correct. (I do know how to score and I do score our matches) I wasn't the only one who saw the errors. My question is more to the point of what is the basis if you do see this error. Do you have the right to question a score that is not on your target?

In a Level II or III match, wrong scoring affects everyone. Having been an RO/CRO with some experience, I can say 2 alphas when I should have said 2 Cs. It happens. I try to be 100% correct, but sometimes shadows, sun, or to many pasters can play tricks on you. So, yes you should identify or "ask" about scoring that does not appear correct. Level I classifiers are important at local matches.

Most of us would want the correct score recorded.

Thank you for the input. The incident that I am referring to was a husband giving his wife and a friend higher scores than they earned. It was a local match and most of the shooters there know each other. I had made a 3 hour drive and this was my first time at this match. He was called out by another local shooter and all was well after that. Trying to stay in the confines of not coming off as a jerk at a new match, I was trying to make sure I had the rules behind me to ask for a correction on a target that was not mine. As previously stated, most of those in our sport are of the highest ethical standards and this was the first time that I had seen this situation.

There is a hubby/wifey SO team at one of the places I shoot. I got a shooting buddy who just doesn't "click" with the hubby and he notices everything he calls on him that he doesn't call on his wife.

[Mark R]

I am not sure what part of this thread you are not getting. This was NOT a matter of me not knowing how to score targets. You say "touch", I say "break"...they are the same just using a different term. This WAS a case of the person not scoring correctly. My question, however, was if I have the right, by rule, to question the scoring of someone eles'e target.

Excuse the hell outta me. Funny how we answered your question and you still ask. YES, YOU CAN question the call! No rule against it, therefore, it is allowed.

BTW...touch and break mean two different things, but I guess you already knew that. Have a nice day!

[kmca]

I am not sure what part of this thread you are not getting. This was NOT a matter of me not knowing how to score targets. You say "touch", I say "break"...they are the same just using a different term. This WAS a case of the person not scoring correctly. My question, however, was if I have the right, by rule, to question the scoring of someone eles'e target.

Excuse the hell outta me. Funny how we answered your question and you still ask. YES, YOU CAN question the call! No rule against it, therefore, it is allowed.

BTW...touch and break mean two different things, but I guess you already knew that. Have a nice day!

I think I know where the OP is coming from. There are a few shooters who would question a call from a taper, that goes to the shooter's benefit, but it would never get confrontational. It's when the taper calls a score to the detriment of the shooter. The shooter can get very upset. The OP, as a newer shooter, could be quite intimidated by the "big time" shooter, who gets in his face. It would be nice to have the official rule book to fall back on to eliminate any argument.

[MarkCO]

It is in the rulebook...

Range Officials (Range Official . . . . . . .A person who is officially serving at a match in the

capacity of a Range Officer.) are the ones who score. THAT IS IT per the rulebook!

[chbrow10]

7.2 Discipline of Match Officials
7.2.1 The Range Master has authority over all Match Officials other than the
Match Director (except when the Match Director is actually participating
as a competitor at the match), and is responsible for decisions in
matters concerning conduct and discipline.

If after talking to the RO, and he didn't change his behavior, talk to the RM, who is usually also the MD as Level 1 matches.

[glandry51]

I am not sure what part of this thread you are not getting. This was NOT a matter of me not knowing how to score targets. You say "touch", I say "break"...they are the same just using a different term. This WAS a case of the person not scoring correctly. My question, however, was if I have the right, by rule, to question the scoring of someone eles'e target.

Excuse the hell outta me. Funny how we answered your question and you still ask. YES, YOU CAN question the call! No rule against it, therefore, it is allowed.

BTW...touch and break mean two different things, but I guess you already knew that. Have a nice day!

I apologize for the tone, it was too harsh. I did not mean to offend. I asked a question and kept getting the same "are you sure the score wasn't correct" posts. When really, I was only trying to give an example for my question which was about being able to ask for a correction that was not on my target. Thank for taking the time to post and again, I apologize for my tone.

[Mark R]

No problem here glandry51. Thanks!

[gng4life]

One thing I haven't read yet is that (to the OP) if they were very close hits to the next scoring zone. Many shooters just look at the hole that is left by the bullet but you have to take into consideration the full diameter of the caliber being shot. Once you put the overlay on most bullet shapes, you will see the diameter touching the next scoring zone. Just wondering if the hits were "on the line" or were they blatant Charlies being called as an Alpha?

They were indeed Charlies being called Alphas. That's kinda what threw me off. Had they been close, say a judgement of whether the scoring perforation between zones had been broken, I would have have asked for clarity. But some were blatant miss calls and why I was asking if I had the right to ask for him to rescore the target even though it was not my target.

Thanks...yeah, I would have definitely said something. If that person was a responsible RO, he wouldn't have questioned you about it and made the correct call. I have made mistakes calling scores and I appreciate when someone points it out to me. We are there to get it right, not play games to help our friends out and anyone with any integrity would know that - regardless of any rule or absence of a rule on correct calls.

Sorry that you had to experience that but being in this sport for a very long time, I can tell you it's not the norm.

[GuildSF4]

When I am scoring I have no problem with anyone questioning what I call or asking me to look again. I believe it is part of being professional and consistent.

[kmca]

When I am scoring I have no problem with anyone questioning what I call or asking me to look again. I believe it is part of being professional and consistent.

I've never had the RO get upset over questioning a call. In my case, it was the shooter that got belligerent and told me to shut up.

[StraightUp_OG]

When I am scoring I have no problem with anyone questioning what I call or asking me to look again. I believe it is part of being professional and consistent.

I've never had the RO get upset over questioning a call. In my case, it was the shooter that got belligerent and told me to shut up.

I would have called the RM for an unsportsman like conduct issue if in the course of scoring ANY shooter did that to me.