So what's the final call on load2/4 vs weak hand/strong hand reloa

[thegunnerd]

The who in the what now ? Us Carbine Association you say .......TO THE INTERNET !

[MarkCO]

The who in the what now ? Us Carbine Association you say .......TO THE INTERNET !

Funny...reference to a new match type removing the shotgun from 3Gun in a shotgun loading thread.

[thegunnerd]

OH yeah that's right ,..........uhhhhh...... load 2 and quad load....uhhhh buy Mark's shotgun caddie and you're be and instant shotgun shell loading JEDI!!!!!!

[Jesse Tischauser]

The who in the what now ? Us Carbine Association you say .......TO THE INTERNET !

Funny...reference to a new match type removing the shotgun from 3Gun in a shotgun loading thread.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=175129

I am definitely not a big fan of removing any shotgun from anything but I do see how noobs struggle with it and the tactical Timmy's down right hate it because its so impractical with all those chokes and ammo types and the big bad recoil. It hopefully will be a gateway drug to 3 gun.

[Rob Tompkins]

I've been pondering this myself lately. I'm reluctant to switch to an L2/4 system as I've got so much time with the weak hand and am relatively comfortable with it, not to mention the extra gear cost. I think the answer is still "whichever works best for you". If standing in my basement with a shot timer, and camera while loading my shotgun were a contest, the L4 wins hands down. In a match with movement, changing ammo types, etc, I think it's still the indian over the arrow at this point.

Dave is right. I've used both and my belt is set up for both. Both have strengths and weaknesses and are the "best" under different conditions.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Rob Tompkins

[MarkCO]

Hey, I believe all trigger time is good time regardless of the sport...just made me laugh a bit.

[kurtm]

Ummm.....he wont be "stealing" any shotgun moves from you at the Carbine match because it is a 2/3 gun match, carbine and pistol. If Jesse takes a shotgun it will just sit in the case all lonely like. I do agree with Mr. T, more folks having fun is a good thing and the load two methods sure do help in that respect!

Note: We call him Mr. T, because of all the bling he has and wears!

Edited May 27, 2013 by kurtm

[Alaskapopo]

I like the load two system with my weak hand because it was easier for me to learn and I can do it much better than weak hand loading from caddies.

Pat

[thegunnerd]

Ummm.....he wont be "stealing" any shotgun moves from you at the Carbine match because it is a 2/3 gun match, carbine and pistol. If Jesse takes a shotgun it will just sit in the case all lonely like. I do agree with Mr. T, more folks having fun is a good thing and the load two methods sure do help in that respect!

Note: We call him Mr. T, because of all the bling he has and wears!

Well DUH!!! that was before i knew what match he was going to. GIve a guy a break huh? But i do like the Mr. T thing......all the bling is to distract competitors i bet .

[bigbrowndog]

funny thing!! whenever a chesty rig/duece/quad/whatever loader gets put into a position other than wide open and standing, they have to move the loading gear around to accomodate the position, (prone, lowport crouch, etc.) this leads to inconsistent loading manipulations, or many that I personally know revert to weakhand or the old method that they previously used, which again leads to inconsistent loading manipulations. one of the things that leads to very smooth loading is having consistent movement, that is one of the benefits of weakhand loading it is adaptable to every position I've been required to shoot in,...................so far!! I know that when WH loading was being tried by the masses all we heard was "I can't do it without dropping shells" well, I've never seen more shells dropped by good shooters than when watching them load duece/quad at SMM3G and Benelli Rockcastle, it was really funny watching loaded shells go further than the actual shot at the target was. No matter what you go with, you have to PRACTICE!!!

The only way to determine which method is BEST, would be to not have a shooting contest just a shoot one load and shoot one match from every conceivable position, under every possible condition,.......................how boring would that match be???????

As Kurt said, load one a second under match conditions, don't miss, and keep practicing and you'll do just fine. Kurt and I will be going overseas next month where duece/quad loading was born, we will be able to see what the latest innovations in loading are, its amazing how stuff get dreamed up when all you can compete easily with is a shotgun.

[co-exprs]

Totally agree. I've gone to load 2, but I still bring a few caddies to every match, because there are times, when load 2 just doesn't work for me. I hate to go prone on them, and I can only lean over, way low for a few seconds before they become painfull in the gut. If I have to go prone I will almost always break out caddies and load weak hand. Also, if I am going to run slugs in small intervals (such as just doing a couple here and a couple there) in a stage, I will usualy just run caddies. If I am only putting in a couple at a time, I don't find much time advantage to load 2. Overall though, it's still worth it for me to practice both and choose the right tool for each job. Load 2 is simply another tool which many, many more people can easily learn over weak hand. There is no question that weak hand is the most versatile and still the king and I marvel watching Kurt and Keith demonstrate mastery of the skill. I've just got retarded fingers and can't seem to get it down to resonable times. Like Mark said... I used to fear shotgun stages which required more than 8 shells reloading. With load 2 I feel like I can keep up, which allows me to focus on hits. Shot the Johnson 3gun match yesterday. JJ had one of his epic, sporting clays from heaven, 30+ shell stages. With my Nova, I pulled down the second fastest raw time of the day with no misses, for the stage win and I just plain had fun. I just about begged Denise to let me shoot the stage again, just for fun. No dice. Load 2 made that possible for me. I still had to hit everything (and one of the birds was a tough one), but dropping dueces allowed me to focus on those hits and post a good time.

[Akkid17]

I agree the load two allows me more control over what and when I load into the gun. I was able to win a stage with my 870 vs a nova (and a damn fast shooter) on an all shotgun stage that had slugs at the beginning by using load two by shooting and loading all on the move. Shoot two load two; lather, rinse, repeat. (I did go 1 for 1 on slug targets which helped)

I'm just wondering when someone's gonna come out with the HEXLOAD! Then the enevitable octaload, which is clearly superior to all other forms of loading. Aaand now I want to try it. Haha

Edited June 9, 2013 by Akkid17

[Alaskapopo]

I have load 2 caddies for those times when the chest rig won't work. Got rid of all my standard caddies for weak hand load.

Pat

[wmiller11]

Anxious to hear about the overseas trip

[kurtm]

Well it was a great trip. The Beer and Cider in the Southern part of England is outstanding! I saw all kinds of ways to put rounds into a shotgun. I saw one method that had 4 rounds in the strong hand and on a Mossberg 500 just held his hand over the port and dropped them in and clicked them home with his thumb....kind of like a gravity feed magazine for a Gatling gun. I saw load 2 where the index finger was used to send the shells home instead of the thumb. I saw weak hand, strong hand, quads, doubles and ones at a time in more orrientations than anyone can ever imagine.....but I digress!! I know all you guys are waiting for "THE" answer as to which way is the best.

12 points seperated 1st through 3rd, and 4th was only a scant 16 points below third. One of the shooters used Quads exclusivly, one shooter mixed Quads, Load 2s, and Weak Hand, and two shooters used only Weakl Hand. The best method really shown through!!! It was.....the method of knowing your pattern, and where the pattern hits in relation to your sighting system. Having a Shotgun that is well maintained and reliable, and NOT MISSING!!! This system, if used exclusively, will always end up winning!

Now I know all you hot shot American shotgunners are thinking....well we are a lot better shooters than those crazy cats accross the pond, after all we can own guns and shoot all the time, and sometimes even practice. we can Quad load 12 shells in 4.5 seconds and there is no way that anyone over there can even come close to that! I am sure that you are right, as the guys over there have only had shotguns to play with since 92 (since they had the rest of thier stuff taken away).

I will say this, for the weak hand loaders, a total of ONE shell was dropped durring the entire match, the quad/double/weakhander dropped 9, so in this reguard the quad system is much faster. They were able to drop a bunch of shells and still keep up

I want to thank my English Brother for lending me his Shotgun, keeping me all liquered up, and showing me and my familly a GREAT TIME....thanks Mike!!!!

[mike.45]

this is bigbrowndog on mike.45's login as im still in the UK. Kurt is absolutely correct, we all won stages outright and neither was due to loading style, it was all down to not missing and having a good solid plan. we had a gentlemans bar/pub wager on whoever dropped the most rounds while loading had to buy that amount in pub drinking rounds, and the unamimous winner was the quad loaders????? winning the match simply came down to not missing or missing less and not completely hosing a stage. we all practice our methods heavily and in the end consistent shooting is what won the day. Kurt and I both were able to watch others shoot and load due to pulling RO duties on the second day, a local shooter won the match, I was assigned to RO his squad and got to watch him shoot and reload, he used both weakhand and dueces, and a Beretta shotgun. So the verdict is simply this, practice, practice, practice........now where did I see that before!!

flying home tomorrow, see you'ze guys soon.

Trapr

[DyNo!]

I know all you guys are waiting for "THE" answer as to which way is the best.

NOT MISSING!!! This system, if used exclusively, will always end up winning!

Not missing?!

THIS IS MADNESS!

[Onagoth]

I recently shot a 7 stage IPSC shotgun match having never attempted the load two before. it took only 3-4 stages before I got super comfortable with it. By the 5,6 and 7th stage, my raw times were comparable to the match winners.

I am reluctant to move to the load 4 since having that many shells in your hands can is more prone to errors, especially on the clock, but with enough practice and confidence, I will get there one day.

FYI, I've loaded from caddies for 2-3 years now, and can't believe it took my so long to adopt load 2/4. Having said that, it is somewhat dependent on the gun too. My mossberg 930 was not conducive to this loading method, but an opened up M2 with a welded lifter is.

I load 2 using the weak hand because I perceive it to be faster than strong hand....My only remaining concern is going prone with the load 2 carriers.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Onagoth

[MarkCO]

With the Carbon Arms SSL products, going prone is no issue.

[Onagoth]

Good to know...just trying to coordinate with a local dealer for some now.

[thegunnerd]

With the Carbon Arms SSL products, going prone is no issue.

He speaks the truth.

I ditched my 930 jm for an m2 that has been opened up. The more i practice the more i prefer load 2 to load 4 for all the reasons above. Really i'd trade the extra half second or second for consistent , repeatable loading . Also if you have smaller hands or shorter fingers , load 4 can sometimes get away from ya

[compulsion1984]

I started shotgun speed loading recently. I tried a weak hand 6 stack (with 4) and a carbon arms 8 round pinwheel. I find the load 2 / load 4 much faster with less practice. I suppose if you trained one way for a long time it might make less sense. I find doing the load 2 / 4 also a blast that gets my heart racing every time. When I weak hand load a shell or two I fumble more and find myself thinking, "is it over yet?"

I'm going to try to learn to either weak hand load as a backup or figure out a good way to strong hand load 1 shell underside. The reason for this is because I want to be able to load a shell or two while moving. I think if I need a lot I'll load 2/4 and run. If I need 1 or 2 I'll load with the gun up and walk / jog.

Edited September 5, 2013 by compulsion1984

[Onagoth]

Been practicing the load 4 for the past week or two,....its much easier than I expected....still has a slightly higher fumble factor, but not significant at all....I estimate its around 10-20% faster

[MetropolisLake]

As a total newbie, I am very interested in this topic, mainly because I cannot afford to buy both systems. I have to buy everything all at once. These caddy's or the L2/L4 are $50 each. Get six of them and that's $300. Decide you made a mistake, and double that. I can't buy $600 worth of caddy's, and the closest 3-gun range is 3 hours away so I can't exactly try somebody else's out.

From what I can tell, the weak hand reload is more practical. It's what LEO's are taught, I could see it being practiced at the local skeet club without being totally laughed at, the caddy's could probably be used while hunting in some situations, etc. But doing this a lot when you are new to 3-gun and have carpal tunnel is slow and painful.

The load 2 method seems fast in itself but I'm skeptical because of a few reasons:

1. Seems like there is a lot of awkward movement of the shotgun to get it into position. Throwing it over your shoulder or flipping upside down just seems unnatural.

2. If you use the strong hand version, from what I can tell, your shell holders are right where you pistol holster needs to be. Not sure how you're supposed to deal with that.

3. the top guys are still using caddy's. If they're not, the wording of their endorsements sounds like their sponsors want them to push it more than they like it personally.

4. Not sure how going prone is supposed to be possible. If you empty your new shiny AP L2 then have to grab a rifle and go prone, or even have to crawl under a car and fire your shotgun like in St. Louis, what's keeping you from destroying the metal arms that hold the shells? With a caddy you're just sitting on an aluminum box, you're not going to do jack crap to it. An AP L2/L4 though, I can see those metal arms getting bent.

[MarkCO]

The only top guys that you have not seen use the Carbon Arms products have received them in the last few weeks. Prone is no issue with our gear. The reason it is faster and easier to use is because it is more ergonomic.

We have had some top sporting clays guys, SWAT entry teams, and a bunch of waterfowl and dove hunters use our gear this year. All with rave reviews. Faster, easier, more ergonomic vs. a little cheaper...