Downloaded .45 acp for IDPA

[bigdawgbeav]

So I have plans to use my XDM 5.25 in both CDP and ESP for IDPA. My current loads are 230gr. bullets with Bullseye and making the switch to Clays. They all make 169-170PF. However, my question is in reference to ESP.

I want to make some light loads that get as close to 129-130PF as possible while still functioning reliably. I know I'll never hit those numbers with a .45, but I'd like to try.

What I'd like to know is what powder is going to help me accomplish this. Currently I have Win 231, Bullseye and Clays on the bench. Are any of these safe to take to the minimum and maybe a little lower to achieve what I'm looking for?

Just wondering if anyone has had any experience downloading .45acp to ESP/Minor PF.

[superdude]

I've shot tons of 230 cast with 4.2 grains of 231. Light recoil, but still enough to cycle my guns with a 16 lb recoil spring. It runs in the 650 fps range, give or take.

[Jim Watson]

I am doing it routinely.

I do not know how the springing of an XD will handle powderpuff loads but 1911 and 2011 with 12 lb recoil springs shoot well for me.

I am loading Bullseye, 3.1-3.5 gr depending on the bullet. I'd go 3.5 if for 230 jacketed, 3.1 is ample for lead; I am using that with BBI moly coated.

That is the starting load range in Lyman.

Several zillion rounds of midrange .45 ammo has been loaded with 3 - 3.8 gr of Bullseye so you are not in unexplored territory.

Clays will work, too; but you have to be sure you are getting good delivery of that light a load of large flake powder from your measure. A vibrator (I use a $6 aquarium air pump.) helps.

W231 and even WST gives wider velocity spread than the flake powders in such light loads, so I save the Ball powder for 9mm.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Jim Watson

[robertbank]

I tried 250 gr Cowboy bullets in my 1911 and they ran fine at 130PF (You can do the math on velocity). Verrryyyy light recoil. Right now I use my 40 cal M&P downloaded in ESP and it is extremely accurate using my Lyman 180 gr bullet with a few grains of Titegroup under them. Frankly, I don't shoot or score any better but it is fun to play with different combinations.

Take Care

Bob

[dirty whiteboy]

3.7-3.8 with Clays, I would not load them long tho, 1.235-1.250

[bigdawgbeav]

I am doing it routinely.

I do not know how the springing of an XD will handle powderpuff loads but 1911 and 2011 with 12 lb recoil springs shoot well for me.

I am loading Bullseye, 3.1-3.5 gr depending on the bullet. I'd go 3.5 if for 230 jacketed, 3.1 is ample for lead; I am using that with BBI moly coated.

That is the starting load range in Lyman.

Several zillion rounds of midrange .45 ammo has been loaded with 3 - 3.8 gr of Bullseye so you are not in unexplored territory.

Clays will work, too; but you have to be sure you are getting good delivery of that light a load of large flake powder from your measure. A vibrator (I use a $6 aquarium air pump.) helps.

W231 and even WST gives wider velocity spread than the flake powders in such light loads, so I save the Ball powder for 9mm.

Thanks Jim. I have a lighter recoil spring from the stock specifically for these loads. Also using the 230 BBI molys, also using 225 LTC's and 230 Plated RNs. Wondering now if I should pull a number of rounds to save the BE for light loads...

[Croomrider]

3.7-3.8 with Clays, I would not load them long tho, 1.235-1.250

That's a good load, but it's at, or near major PF!

Mike

[bigdawgbeav]

3.7-3.8 with Clays, I would not load them long tho, 1.235-1.250

^^ What he said.

Already have 3.9gr. of Clays at 169PF with Moly bullets... Looking for 130PF, don't think I'll get it with Clays.

[Steve RA]

Try 2.8 or 3 grains of Clays and see what happens.

[dirty whiteboy]

I have found you shouldn't go below 140,000 pf with a 45cap, at least out of a glock 21(even with light recoil springs). Another load was 200gr Montana Gold FP with about 4.2 grains of Clays, but kept the OAL, short at about 1.190. Yes, you may get to a 130000 PF with 45 acp, but when the weak hand only cause malfunctions, you will see that striving for 130000 wasn't such a good idea. Been there, done that!

Your 5.25 barrel is about .75 in. longer than the barrel I used, so you could drop the charge a bit for that.

[bigdawgbeav]

I have found you shouldn't go below 140,000 pf with a 45cap, at least out of a glock 21(even with light recoil springs). Another load was 200gr Montana Gold FP with about 4.2 grains of Clays, but kept the OAL, short at about 1.190. Yes, you may get to a 130000 PF with 45 acp, but when the weak hand only cause malfunctions, you will see that striving for 130000 wasn't such a good idea. Been there, done that!

Your 5.25 barrel is about .75 in. longer than the barrel I used, so you could drop the charge a bit for that.

I don't think I could get to 130, but I would take 140. Just looking for a load that will allow me to be competitive in ESP against the 9mm's

[dirty whiteboy]

try 3.5 clays w/ 230 bullet

[JerZSquid]

I worked up a load using Clays and a 230gr LRN in my 1911

I started with 3.6 gr of Clays and winded up sticking with 4.0gr

I couldn't really tell the difference in recoil between 3.6 and 4.0

I stuck with 4.0 because I wanted to ensure I would make Major no matter what the temp was outside.

[wgj3]

Its amazing that some people post so much "help" in some of these threads that appears to be completely unrelated to the OP's starting post.

FWIW, I've used Clays, BE, Red Dot, and Promo for major and minor loads and I wouldn't hesitate to use any of them again. I've been loading with Promo lately bc its the cheapest and has been readily available. Your barrel and bullet choice will dictate exact charge weights needed for desired PF/reliability.

And, as long as you're willing to do a little spring-swapping, you should be able to make it run just fine.

[nwhpfan]

If you want to go "minor" consider using a lighter bullet. Like 180 SWC or .45LC 180 RNFP.

[dirty whiteboy]

If you want to go "minor" consider using a lighter bullet. Like 180 SWC or .45LC 180 RNFP.

It doesn't always work like that. A lighter bullet requires more powder than a heavier bullet. If you take a fast burning powder like Clays or VV N310 with a heavy 200-230 you will get a softer impulse. That's been my results anyhow. Running 3.7-3.8 Clays with a 230 FMJ, doesn't get much softer. But your results may vary.

[nwhpfan]

If you want to go "minor" consider using a lighter bullet. Like 180 SWC or .45LC 180 RNFP.

It doesn't always work like that. A lighter bullet requires more powder than a heavier bullet. If you take a fast burning powder like Clays or VV N310 with a heavy 200-230 you will get a softer impulse. That's been my results anyhow. Running 3.7-3.8 Clays with a 230 FMJ, doesn't get much softer. But your results may vary.

I use 4.6 AA#2 and 180 or 185 SWC from Missouri or Dardas, and .45LC 180 RNFP from Mid Atlantic Bullets and Black and Blue Bullets. Very accurate and consistent 730 FPS that runs my M&P reliably. With the same bullets I've tried a few other powders-Clays and Universal. I had a lot deviation in velocity with Clays and poor accuracy at 3.8g. I've also used 4.2 TG with very, very good results but the recoil impulse was a little too snappy for my preference so I stayed with AA#2.

Edited May 14, 2013 by nwhpfan

[dirty whiteboy]

Yes, there seems to be a lot of deviation with the Clays.

[njl]

I've played around a bit with "light" .45 loads using 230gr, 200gr, and 185gr bullets. Any can be loaded soft, but the heavier bullets soft get silly slow. i.e. down in the 600s fps. If you're just punching paper, your pistol will function on that, and you aren't bothered by a slow slide, then that's an option. 185s at about 800 fps are pretty soft though, and safer if you're shooting any reactive targets. Since I shoot a variety of targets, I prefer the lighter bullets.

The only one of your powders I've used is Clays...and it'll work, but I've used a lot more WST for this.