Stage breakdown

[Dragon11]

When looking at how I shoot, I feel there are a lot of things I need to improve on. But the one thing I want to improve on the most is breaking down stages, obviously in relation to shooting my revolver. When I go to a match now I get the stage figured out, but I never feel like the solution "comes to me" naturally.

I know experience and just shooting the matches is a big part of it, and I've done that. I just want to have a better system that I can use each time I approach the stage, in terms of breaking it down and coming up with a plan. I feel like by getting ideas from other people on how they approach breaking down the stage, and then putting it to practice, will hopefully help me create a better way to get to a choice quicker, and let me shoot the stage with more confidence. I'm open to ANY advice from you guys if your willing to give it.

[Speedemon45]

It is hard enough breaking down stages in open or limited so I feel for ya man.

I always try to look at the stage as a whole first and see the sight lines.

Then break down to shooting positions and see if there is a way to eliminate one.

Then break down steps and foot placement.

Then look for more efficient ways of movement ie. wheather an array can be shot on the move.

Then run your plan a couple dozen times in your head before you are up to shoot.

[JohnRodriguez]

1 second for each shot should be your goal for your total time for a stage. If you have a stage with 24 shots in it, then your total time should be 24 seconds or faster. The top shooters will usually do this 25% faster, about 18 sec runs.

Reload time should not be factored into your total time unless you do a standing reload. I usually figure for a 2.5 sec reload.

Diisappering targets should be ignored if they are non penalty targets. Speed is king in revo division.

Don't slow down to shoot steel. Don't miss the steel. This is a killer for me, it really trashes your time

[sbcman]

I struggle with stage breakdown as well. One thing all the good USPSA revo guys have told me is "do whatever it takes to avoid a standing reload."

That's about all I can contribute. Looking forward to what others can add.

[Carmoney]

HOWEVER, sometimes it's actually better to eat the standing reload if it allows you to move through the rest of the stage more quickly and surely! Sounds strange, but it's true.

My advice: Shoot bigger matches, get squadded with Cliff Walsh and Matt Griffin, and pay close attention. They are two of the best stage strategizers in the game today. I have learned plenty from both of them.

[Pete Whyte]

Mike, You are right about Cliff, I shot on his squad last week. We were the only revolver shooters. He will go out of his way to help others break down the stage. He spent most of the time helping everyone else no matter what gun they were using.

[Dragon11]

Here is a shocker, I'm probably overthinking this, but I feel like I'm not finding the preverbial "missing link." To start with when I approach a stage I try to listen to the walk through. I make sure I hear how many targets there are to engage, and then make sure I find them all on the stage. Then I look at the stage, depending on the start position, and see what angles are best to find additional targets when only one or two are present to minimize the standing reloads, when its best to do so. Then, I progress from there.

There have been stages where I have finished fairly well as a result of how I figured it out. I don't necessarily want "An Easy Button", I like trying to figure it out. The problem I have is that I feel like there has got to be a more logical and systematic approach for me. I know that stages are designed with the idea to be different and challenging, but knowing this, I can't help but feel I'm missing a system, or a pre-planned pattern, of how I should look at the stage to help with making it easier to figure out.

In other words, after listening to the walk through, should I always look at the stage or target arrays from left to right or right to left, or from front to back and so forth. Or maybe, and by all means feel free tell me, am I over thinking this to much and should I just quit worrying about it and do what I'm doing, and let time and experience eventually solve the problem. I agree with the assessment of Cliff, I haven't shot with Griffin, but its pretty obvious that the proof is in the pudding. At any rate, I've hit the stop button, I'm done rambling.

Edited March 30, 2013 by Dragon11

[alecmc]

I'm no excellent shooter, but alot depends on the stage designers. If your put in a position with arrays of 4 targets one often the other your going to have a few standing reloads.

Alot of good tips above. Don't think like a production or limited shooter in terms of planning. Unconventional ways of going through your stage can be your friend , what may seem like a waste of time and poor planning with a semi may be beneficial for a wheelgun.

I actually found that using a POV headcam and analyzing video at home has helped me a little bit. Every time I watch it and breakdown stages I didn't do so hot on , I can always say to myself " shoulda did it this way , instead of :::::" and I can apply it next time.

Also, I've found that if I get thrown of my stage plan by missing a steel plate or something and my round count is off just go ahead and dump that moonclip , move on, and reload where you had initially planned. Don't try and re plan the stage mid run.

[kita]

I think as long as you have a plan that eliminates standing reloads, if you have it memorized and stick to it there isn't going to be a significant difference from one stage breakdown to the next.

[toothguy]

Also, I've found that if I get thrown of my stage plan by missing a steel plate or something and my round count is off just go ahead and dump that moonclip , move on, and reload where you had initially planned. Don't try and re plan the stage mid run.

Good thread, seems to be the hardest part of shooting a revolver in USPSA. It's hard enought to remember your plan but when every shot is accounted for it derails easily. Dave Williams is good at planing a stage it seems like he counts to six and everything else is on autopilot, not sure what's going on in his head though.

[Blueridge]

1 second for each shot should be your goal for your total time for a stage. If you have a stage with 24 shots in it, then your total time should be 24 seconds or faster. The top shooters will usually do this 25% faster, about 18 sec runs.

Reload time should not be factored into your total time unless you do a standing reload. I usually figure for a 2.5 sec reload.

Diisappering targets should be ignored if they are non penalty targets. Speed is king in revo division.

Don't slow down to shoot steel. Don't miss the steel. This is a killer for me, it really trashes your time

I understand the idea behind of having the goal of 1second per shot, but I don't see why reload time should not be added in. Between required movement in the stage and reloading it would seem a good idea to add in 7.5 seconds for the 3 required reloads on a 24 round stage.

--------------------

My first goal is to try and eliminate as much movement between arrays as possible. If I can lean around and pick up a target in addition to the array that I am facing, then I will. This might mean taking a 30 yard shot on a target that I could get a 5 yard shot on later after moving in the stage.

Always remember to reload after taking 6 shots. I have found few things that break my concentration

more than forgetting that and hearing the dreaded "click" after forgetting handling stages.

Shoot to your strengths and try not to get caught up in engaging a stage in a way that gets you away from that.

Edited March 31, 2013 by Blueridge

[pskys2]

1) Find all of the Targets, sounds simple but it is so easy to get wrapped up in planning and forget to see a target

2) Find the optimum Positions and ID the targets, sometimes you can take a longer/difficult shot and save time, sometimes it's best to do an extra reload

3) Big Key: the more complicated a stage, the simpler your plan needs to be. This is a big one that causes hesitation and forgotten targets and leads to the next item

4) A bad plan executed well is better than a great plan executed poorly!!!

5) Visualize your plan until it's in a rhythm in your head and then don't try to change it at the last minute, and I guarantee someone will sooner or later come up with a wrinkle you didn't see. But if you try to change it without visualizing it thoroughly, your run will be choppy and slower.

6) Take a breath, enjoy the run. What happens is what will happen learn from it after the match because once that run is over, the only thing that matters is the next one.

7) Remember to count to 6 or less and ignore the Auto guys, they're just jealous seeing all of the fun your having.

But one of the great things of the current Revo crowd is a willingness to share ALL of their plans/secrets/techniques, we actually enjoy talking of it and it may get to where you need to get us to shut up.

Edited March 30, 2013 by pskys2

[Matt Griffin]

First point about stage breakdown: Know where the targets are. This must be 100% perfect before moving on. Seems simple, but often it surprises folks. Do not trust the match book, do not trust the walkthrough, do not trust your fellow shooters (though keep an ear open in case they see something you don't)

Second point: Divide by six.

Third point: If the result is uneven, try to plan so that you have the extra rounds where steel is present

Fourth point: Try to empty the gun whenever possible

Fifth point: Don't make the mistake of thinking that you can magically reload before you can take a second step. You can cover a lot of ground during a reload, plan accordingly. (I'm looking at you, Olhasso.)

And there's a bunch of other stuff beyond that, but the secret of stage breakdown is to knock out the most confusing parts first, then worry about tuning. I see so many people focus on one piddly part of a stage and then wind up tanking the thing as a whole. Get the overall feel first, then worry about the fiddly bits. A confident and well-internalized second-best plan will usually beat a perfect-but-uncertain plan.

[GuildSF4]

Thanks for the info, interesting discussion.

[Dragon11]

First point about stage breakdown: Know where the targets are. This must be 100% perfect before moving on. Seems simple, but often it surprises folks. Do not trust the match book, do not trust the walkthrough, do not trust your fellow shooters (though keep an ear open in case they see something you don't)

Second point: Divide by six.

Third point: If the result is uneven, try to plan so that you have the extra rounds where steel is present

Fourth point: Try to empty the gun whenever possible

Fifth point: Don't make the mistake of thinking that you can magically reload before you can take a second step. You can cover a lot of ground during a reload, plan accordingly. (I'm looking at you, Olhasso.)

And there's a bunch of other stuff beyond that, but the secret of stage breakdown is to knock out the most confusing parts first, then worry about tuning. I see so many people focus on one piddly part of a stage and then wind up tanking the thing as a whole. Get the overall feel first, then worry about the fiddly bits. A confident and well-internalized second-best plan will usually beat a perfect-but-uncertain plan.

In reference to your first point, I think this is my biggest problem. I listen to the walk through to get the number of targets, and then try to locate them. Problem is, I think I spend to much time doing this, which makes me feel rushed for the rest of the available time. In anyalyzing myself I want to locate the targets quicker, so I can spend the majority of the time planning how I want to engage them. I think I park on driveways instead of driving on parkways, I think thats how that saying goes anyway.

Edited April 3, 2013 by Dragon11

[kita]

First point about stage breakdown: Know where the targets are. This must be 100% perfect before moving on. Seems simple, but often it surprises folks. Do not trust the match book, do not trust the walkthrough, do not trust your fellow shooters (though keep an ear open in case they see something you don't)

Second point: Divide by six.

Third point: If the result is uneven, try to plan so that you have the extra rounds where steel is present

Fourth point: Try to empty the gun whenever possible

Fifth point: Don't make the mistake of thinking that you can magically reload before you can take a second step. You can cover a lot of ground during a reload, plan accordingly. (I'm looking at you, Olhasso.)

And there's a bunch of other stuff beyond that, but the secret of stage breakdown is to knock out the most confusing parts first, then worry about tuning. I see so many people focus on one piddly part of a stage and then wind up tanking the thing as a whole. Get the overall feel first, then worry about the fiddly bits. A confident and well-internalized second-best plan will usually beat a perfect-but-uncertain plan.

In reference to your first point, I think this is my biggest problem. I listen to the walk through to get the number of targets, and then try to locate them. Problem is, I think I spend to much time doing this, which makes me feel rushed for the rest of the available time. In anyalyzing myself I want to locate the targets quicker, so I can spend the majority of the time planning how I want to engage them. I think I park on driveways instead of driving on parkways, I think thats how that saying goes anyway.

Is it getting any easier for you the more you do it? Maybe if you get there early and take your time without feeling rushed, you will come up with a concrete plan that you will stick to. As your confidence in your stage breakdown skills grows, you will probably get faster.

[No.343]

Planning a revolver stage is a lot like doing homework for your college engineering classes. Collaboration leads to better understanding. Other folks see things that I don't. The opinion of other revolver shooters is very valuable.

[GuildSF4]

Walking around on the target side can help also, especially teaming up with another shooter so you can identity where the targets can be seen from.

[Dragon11]

First point about stage breakdown: Know where the targets are. This must be 100% perfect before moving on. Seems simple, but often it surprises folks. Do not trust the match book, do not trust the walkthrough, do not trust your fellow shooters (though keep an ear open in case they see something you don't)

Second point: Divide by six.

Third point: If the result is uneven, try to plan so that you have the extra rounds where steel is present

Fourth point: Try to empty the gun whenever possible

Fifth point: Don't make the mistake of thinking that you can magically reload before you can take a second step. You can cover a lot of ground during a reload, plan accordingly. (I'm looking at you, Olhasso.)

And there's a bunch of other stuff beyond that, but the secret of stage breakdown is to knock out the most confusing parts first, then worry about tuning. I see so many people focus on one piddly part of a stage and then wind up tanking the thing as a whole. Get the overall feel first, then worry about the fiddly bits. A confident and well-internalized second-best plan will usually beat a perfect-but-uncertain plan.

In reference to your first point, I think this is my biggest problem. I listen to the walk through to get the number of targets, and then try to locate them. Problem is, I think I spend to much time doing this, which makes me feel rushed for the rest of the available time. In anyalyzing myself I want to locate the targets quicker, so I can spend the majority of the time planning how I want to engage them. I think I park on driveways instead of driving on parkways, I think thats how that saying goes anyway.

Is it getting any easier for you the more you do it? Maybe if you get there early and take your time without feeling rushed, you will come up with a concrete plan that you will stick to. As your confidence in your stage breakdown skills grows, you will probably get faster.

It is getting easier. But me being the impatient and over analytical person that I am, I'm looking to see how other people look at it, in order to find a better way. I can walk up to the stage and figure it out and come up with a solution. Sometimes with good results. I just want want to be able to walk up to the stages and feel confident with jumping right in there and working on it. I don't want to second guess myself. Does anybody know if Dr. Phil is on this forum?

[hopalong]

Pay attention to how many shots, and what kind of targets during the walk through or when pre reading the stage brief.

Find ALL the required shots !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now find them in bunches that are managable (your not going to shoot the whole stage with one moonclip so don't try to remember it like you are).

Go from one group doing the most effecient way through them to another.

IF for some reason during the stage and you get off because of a miss on steel or a make up on paper. do the reload and make up the shots if they are worth it. THEN when you get to the next bunch reload and get back on track emphasizing POINTS since you have lost your time you were going to have.......GET THE POINTS that are left in the stage to GET !!!!!!

DON'T be afraid to shoot different than all the other shooters......even other revolver shooters...........Shoot to your own skills !!!!!

Hopalong

[Dragon11]

Pay attention to how many shots, and what kind of targets during the walk through or when pre reading the stage brief.

Find ALL the required shots !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now find them in bunches that are managable (your not going to shoot the whole stage with one moonclip so don't try to remember it like you are).

Go from one group doing the most effecient way through them to another.

IF for some reason during the stage and you get off because of a miss on steel or a make up on paper. do the reload and make up the shots if they are worth it. THEN when you get to the next bunch reload and get back on track emphasizing POINTS since you have lost your time you were going to have.......GET THE POINTS that are left in the stage to GET !!!!!!

DON'T be afraid to shoot different than all the other shooters......even other revolver shooters...........Shoot to your own skills !!!!!

Hopalong

Thanks Hop!