3 Gun Nation Classifiers

[slowsure]

Why are we trying to change our sport?

I don't think anyone is trying to change your sport.

I'll try to rember this, at the next major match I shoot, while I wait on the "real 3-gunners" to get back from the 3GN shoot off so the prize table can start. My personal favorite CHANGE! I'm old. I dont handle change well. I should start playing golf, they have par and carts.

I'm not slaming 3GN. It has brought more shooters to the sport. I cant argue that. I just dont like some of the froce feeding of the rules, targets and such. that seems to going on.

To each his own.

[outerlimits]

Classification stages r gay

[Jesse Tischauser]

Why are we trying to change our sport?

I don't think anyone is trying to change your sport.

I'll try to rember this, at the next major match I shoot, while I wait on the "real 3-gunners" to get back from the 3GN shoot off so the prize table can start. My personal favorite CHANGE! I'm old. I dont handle change well. I should start playing golf, they have par and carts.

I'm not slaming 3GN. It has brought more shooters to the sport. I cant argue that. I just dont like some of the froce feeding of the rules, targets and such. that seems to going on.

To each his own.

I don't know why you feel the need to make this personal by insulting the shooters that choose to shoot the 3GN matches by calling us names? I don't see any of those shooters calling the people who choose not to participate "unreal 3 Gunners".

You're going to be happy to know that there won't be any more shoot offs at outlaw matches this year.

As far as targets go I'm pretty sure the use of any of the 3GN targets is completely optional just like when MGM or GT Targets comes out with a new steal target. Match directors decide what targets and rules their matches follow. Which IMHO makes the outlaw match so much fun to shoot.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Jesse Tischauser

[slowsure]

Why are we trying to change our sport?

I don't think anyone is trying to change your sport.

I'll try to rember this, at the next major match I shoot, while I wait on the "real 3-gunners" to get back from the 3GN shoot off so the prize table can start. My personal favorite CHANGE! I'm old. I dont handle change well. I should start playing golf, they have par and carts.

I'm not slaming 3GN. It has brought more shooters to the sport. I cant argue that. I just dont like some of the froce feeding of the rules, targets and such. that seems to going on.

To each his own.

I don't know why you feel the need to make this personal by insulting the shooters that choose to shoot the 3GN matches by calling us names? I don't see any of those shooters calling the people who choose not to participate "unreal 3 Gunners".

You're going to be happy to know that there won't be any more shoot offs at outlaw matches this year.

As far as targets go I'm pretty sure the use of any of the 3GN targets is completely optional just like when MGM or GT Targets comes out with a new steal target. Match directors decide what targets and rules their matches follow. Which IMHO makes the outlaw match so much fun to shoot.

Its not personal. I think this game is big enough for everyone to shoot the 3G match style they like. Or not. Thats all I'm saying.

Classifiers are not my favorite stage type. If I'm among the minority so be it.

If I were to call people names they would probably be references to elected city officials.

[Jesse Tischauser]

Its not personal. I think this game is big enough for everyone to shoot the 3G match style they like. Or not. Thats all I'm saying.

Classifiers are not my favorite stage type. If I'm among the minority so be it.

If I were to call people names they would probably be references to elected city officials.

I apologize for misunderstanding your last post.

I agree about classifiers not being a favorite stage. In USPSA I pretty much despise them. I'm giving these the benefit of the doubt until I shoot them since they have multiple guns and more shooting.

I've always liked run and gun big field courses myself. Heck I don't think I've ever heard anyone say they love classifier stages but the measuring stick of performance they provide definitely has its place for some shooters.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Jesse Tischauser

[Brian Payne]

Here in MN we have the "problem" of lots of new shooters coming to our sport, and a lot of that has to do with 3GunNation. The problem it poses is that we just had our first match of the year, and the starting temperature for the match was 8 degrees. I was thinking that with the low temps we might have a light showing of shooters. We had 68 shooters show up to shoot. With most of our bays being in the 100 yrd or under range, and very difficult to find bays of 200+ yrds, it gets challenging to think up stages that challenge shooters, but don't take a long time to shoot or reset.

The 3GunNation Classifiers are nice short courses of fire that fit in pretty much any bay in my area ranges. They do challenge different "shooting" skills and use targets that we are all familiar with. Their rules are slightly different, but not so much so that it would really cause any problems. If anything, for new shooters, it makes things easier. At our last match the few DQ's we had took place when new shooters were attempting to quickly unload their weapon prior to abandoning it, as compared to no DQ's on the one stage that I set up to be similar to a classifier where all weapons were abandoned right in front of the shooter "on safe".

We plan on running our matches the exact same way that we always have, same types of courses of fire, with the only difference that one stage now and then will be a "Classifier". All shooters will shoot the same courses, but no shooter will be forced to become a member of 3GunNation Club Series unless they want to. We also plan on putting on a Classifier Match with five classifier stages layed out for all of the shooters to run through.

I have to be honest and say that one of the reasons I have jumped on board the Club Series is for selfish reasons. I am running out of new ideas for stages and these classifiers were an easy out in that regard. As for obtaining any sort of special classification I could really care less, but I am lucky enough to be able to attend several Major matches across the country, most of our local shooters never get that chance. Or their own fear keeps them away, maybe once they see how their skills stack up you will see more newer shooters coming to bigger matches.

I guess what I am saying is that I am keeping an open mind to this whole thing and I will give it my best shot to ensure its success in our area. Our shooters are hungry for it so we will see how it goes. I am hoping it will be just like when I switched from a Glock to an STI. They both do the same thing, just in a little different way, I tried both while keeping an open mind and found one was better "for me" than the other. Hopefully this Classifier Series will just be another tool to make 3-gunning better.

[Bryan 45]

Very well said, Brian.

The same is true of our local club that is part of the 3GN Club Series. Small pistol bays, a lot of new shooters. All of the guys that either don't have the desire or opportunity to shoot major matches are excited about being a part of it.

[DyNo!]

With the recent surges in modern rifle ownership - I hope we can drive people towards 3-Gun.

Ammo has to come down though and these stages are pretty short...

[csole]

all we are trying to do is build this sport.. we are not asking matches to surrender their individuality. 16 eps of 3gn club tv...stay tuned ...http://3gnclubtv.com another part of the club series program.

we at Tarheel3gun are moving all of our matches to the 3gn club format...i think it is wonderful and it will move local 3 gun to the next level.

charles sole

co owner / md tareheel3gun

and

3 gun nation club series director charles@3gunnation.com

Edited March 24, 2013 by csole

[csole]

Here is another offer we are extending for our folks at TH3GN....http://tarheel3gun.c...gn-club-series/

Edited March 24, 2013 by csole

[Bryan 45]

Bluegrass 3 Gun had their second match of the year yesterday. 66 total shooters, of which 1/2 of them have either already joined 3GN Club Series or said they were going to. I'd say 3GN Club Series is off to a good start. Of these 66 shooters, only 4 of us, to my knowledge, have ever shot a major 3G match outside of the State of KY. There are another 5-8 guys that have shot the Pro-Am, everyone else is either a new shooter or only shoots locals.

I think 3GN has hit their target market w/ the Club Series.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Bryan 45

[glock34shooter]

I have not had a problem with anything with 3GN until this classification stuff came about. The classifaction stages are not 3gun stages. 3gun is NOT stand and shoot for 15-30 seconds. If that is your idea of 3gun you have been shooting a different sport than me. How can you possibly have a 3gun classifier if it does not include long range rifle. How is doing a modified El Prez with pistol and rifle indicative of 3gun? Yet the idea is to have a stage like that be a deciding fact in how a 3gunner is absolutely ridiculous. This is exactly what I meant by change our sport. If I were to change my match over I would have to hand over a little more than 10 percent of my match income for 3GN to maintain classification scores. My match uses every dollar we bring in after fees to buy new equipment. Does anyone really think match funds are better spent on classification scores than on a new star, flasher, spinner, or something that actually makes the match better? I believe this whole thing is a group of IPSC shooters trying to make 3gun into something they like.

[lc2hl]

I see things in a simple light. All of the shooting sports have classifiers. They establish a baseline. I SUCK at classifiers, but like and tend to excel at field courses. However, I have learned that the classification system is based on specific skillsets that can truly be determined, and the devil is in the details. The only issue I see is the initial coordination, but it appears they are off to a very good start.

Just like any USPSA or IDPA club does, special classification fees should be added to the cost of the match. 1 classifier at the match, almost every shooter will spend an extra 3.00. Depending on range fees, running a 6 classifier match may put it out of reach for some shooters. That is entirely understandable. This does not interfere with the match fees for the club, and allows the club to continue to build and grow while giving the shooters the option whether or not to pony up a few bucks to get classified. As a match director, I am always concerned that the people that come out to shoot our matches are enjoying themselves while being challenged at the same time.

While I travel for matches, I shoot with a lot of people who will never travel for a pistol, rifle or 3 gun matches, but are regular at local clubs. I think this gives them the opportunity to be a part of something bigger, and that cannot hurt our sport. After all, if no one shows up to shoot, can you continue to exist as a club or continually put on matches?

[csole]

I will invite you to a tarheel3gun monthly match, pay your match fee, cover a hot dog lunch and show how you can make these classifiers work in any match..If we can do it with 100-120 shooter every month any one can do it...

One of our classifiers, DOWN AND DIRTY... a wonderful stage..we ran it at one of our matches (108 shooters at that match) and they ALL loved it. I see movement...

Charles Sole

Partner/MD TH3GN

3GN Club Series Director

[csole]

Hardly El Prez...and I do see movement>>>These stages were very well thought out. Another challenging stage. we ran this one also..Rob dd it is 17.21...your average shooter doubles that time. 50yrd plate rack off hand.

Edited March 25, 2013 by csole

[csole]

My favorite...it has choices...another important deal in stage design. Let the shooter figure it out. Note that there is a plate rack in the bay ...to the right. We built a bigger stage around the classifier. That way before or after the match we could just run the classifier part but not cause issue with match flow. “where there is a will there is a way”.

Again..its all about growing the game. As for the cost to run the stage as for the cost a competitor will spend a minimum of 25 bucks to join the club series and 18 bucks to shoot the 6 required classifiers..$43 bucks to win a $1,400.00 shotgun or a $230.00 AR trigger...most of us have spent that much on raffle tickets to win a gun or such...

Edited March 25, 2013 by csole

[glock34shooter]

Charles everyone that I know that has shot in your matches have had good things to say. I will be there in April, and I'm looking forward to it. Now here is the difference between Tidewater 3gun and Tarheel 3gun, my match time out is 200 seconds and yours is less than half of that. Almost all of my stages have use 3 guns. My average round count per stage is around 40 round without a miss. A short stage is probably around 60 seconds for the stage winner with most being over 100 seconds. I would say around 80 percent of the rifle shoots in my match are over 50 yards. I try to have at least two stages that have several shots between 200 and 350.

From all accounts you are doing a masterful job with your match, but trying to compare yours and mine is apples and oranges. The difference in stage time along should explain why I logistically can not utilize a 30 second stage. My average time per squad per stage is about 1.5 hours, so having one stage that takes 30 minutes to run a squad through would causes an enormous logjam within a couple of hours.

Matt

[glock34shooter]

My favorite...it has choices...another important deal in stage design. Let the shooter figure it out. Note that there is a plate rack in the bay ...to the right. We built a bigger stage around the classifier. That way before or after the match we could just run the classifier part but not cause issue with match flow. “where there is a will there is a way”.

Again..its all about growing the game. As for the cost to run the stage as for the cost a competitor will spend a minimum of 25 bucks to join the club series and 18 bucks to shoot the 6 required classifiers..$43 bucks to win a $1,400.00 shotgun or a $230.00 AR trigger...most of us have spent that much on raffle tickets to win a gun or such...

This is a good example of what I've been saying. That was a 7 second stage and Clint smoked it, but it was a one gun stage plus a bullet. The only movement was at his waist. HOW IS THIS A GOOD REPRESENTATION OF 3GUN? Think about it if you get someone that is awesome with a shotgun they could an be expert without shooting a rifle once or their shotgun or pistol past 15 yards under this classification system.

[Bryan 45]

Matt, unfortunately not all clubs have the room and ability to put on a match like yours. Just like not all majors can (or want to for that matter) build stages like Blue Ridge. I'd say there are a lot more local clubs that lean toward short and quick stages than 200 second stages w/ all three guns. Hell, I've shot majors that didn't have as good of stages as your putting together.

These classifiers might be workable for a side-match type stage at your club though, if you want to participate. And if not, with stages like you're running, I doubt you'll lose shooters if your not affiliated w/ 3GN Club Series.

Kind of like one-size-fits-most hats, it's still not for everyone.

[Jesse Tischauser]

Charles everyone that I know that has shot in your matches have had good things to say. I will be there in April, and I'm looking forward to it. Now here is the difference between Tidewater 3gun and Tarheel 3gun, my match time out is 200 seconds and yours is less than half of that. Almost all of my stages have use 3 guns. My average round count per stage is around 40 round without a miss. A short stage is probably around 60 seconds for the stage winner with most being over 100 seconds. I would say around 80 percent of the rifle shoots in my match are over 50 yards. I try to have at least two stages that have several shots between 200 and 350.

Matt

I think we can all agree that these classifier stages don't represent all of the skills that 3 gun tests but they do represent most of the 3 gun that you see at a lot of small clubs. Maybe they are working on a long range classifier with slugs and MGM flashers too??? Edited March 25, 2013 by Jesse Tischauser

[Jesse Tischauser]

Here in MN we have the "problem" of lots of new shooters coming to our sport, and a lot of that has to do with 3GunNation. The problem it poses is that we just had our first match of the year, and the starting temperature for the match was 8 degrees. I was thinking that with the low temps we might have a light showing of shooters. We had 68 shooters show up to shoot. With most of our bays being in the 100 yrd or under range, and very difficult to find bays of 200+ yrds, it gets challenging to think up stages that challenge shooters, but don't take a long time to shoot or reset.

68 Shooters? That is outstanding!!!

[glock34shooter]

Brian you are probable correct. I have been spoiled by the facility I have available to me. The classifier thing just doesn't seem to make sense to me, but that is just me. In the end people should do what ever works for them.

Oh and I'm still mad at you for beating me in the shoot out at BRM3G a few years back.

[stormbringer]

I am pleased to announce that the East Elgin Sportsmen's Association (www.eesa.ca) has voted to join in the program. I believe we are the first Canadian club to do so.

[latewatch]

I like that more shooters are jumping on the 3 Gun band wagon but, I'm not real keen on the whole "classification" idea for 3 Gun. One of the things that I really love about 3 Gun matches is that everyone shoots heads up with everyone else and the chips fall where they may. I would really hate to see a USPSA type classification system work its way into the sport. In my opinion, we do not need a 1st B Class award in 3 Gun so what's the point of having a classification system.

Just my .02

[Bryan 45]

I like that more shooters are jumping on the 3 Gun band wagon but, I'm not real keen on the whole "classification" idea for 3 Gun. One of the things that I really love about 3 Gun matches is that everyone shoots heads up with everyone else and the chips fall where they may. I would really hate to see a USPSA type classification system work its way into the sport. In my opinion, we do not need a 1st B Class award in 3 Gun so what's the point of having a classification system.

Just my .02

Your .02 is worth considerably more than that considering inflation and the devaluation of the dollar on the world market. AMEN!

I hope I'm not wrong, but I think the intent of the classifications is just to provide local shooters, only on the local match level, a way to gauge their skills based on a national database.

And Matt- !

Edited March 26, 2013 by Bryan 45