3 Gun Nation Classifiers

[D.Hayden]

I like the way the 3 Gun club I shoot at is treating them

They are completely separate from the match, shot after the match, and only those people pay the classifier charge

[Jesse Tischauser]

I like that more shooters are jumping on the 3 Gun band wagon but, I'm not real keen on the whole "classification" idea for 3 Gun. One of the things that I really love about 3 Gun matches is that everyone shoots heads up with everyone else and the chips fall where they may. I would really hate to see a USPSA type classification system work its way into the sport. In my opinion, we do not need a 1st B Class award in 3 Gun so what's the point of having a classification system.

Just my .02

I agree having ten class winners at a match is kinda hokey. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't proud as heck of my B Class USPSA Multi Gun National Title as well as the class wins I had as I was climbing the ranks as a new pistol shooter. Setting and achieving those goals kept me hungry and striving for more.

[ArmdCtzn]

I shot the BGSL match this weekend near Lexington, KY. They always put on a good match and this one was no exception. They also included a classifier stage. I liked it. They actually had another stage that was very similar to the classifier. Both stages required a mag change on the rifle. I think I did more rifle mag changes in this match than I did all of last season. I thought it was pretty cool, another skill to hone. I like the classification idea, it gives me a benchmark and new goals to work toward. I love big, long stages, running through natural terrain, but these classifiers are fun too.

Here's a little video from the match:

Edited March 26, 2013 by ArmdCtzn

[Jesse Tischauser]

So I have been watching the videos from Superstition and what do I see? Stage 9 at 9:33 on the video below has like 15 shotgun and that's it. Open guys run it under 10 seconds. These classifier stages are more than that. Isn't that the beauty of 3 gun? Too many challenges to plan for.

[sb3]

I like that more shooters are jumping on the 3 Gun band wagon but, I'm not real keen on the whole "classification" idea for 3 Gun. One of the things that I really love about 3 Gun matches is that everyone shoots heads up with everyone else and the chips fall where they may. I would really hate to see a USPSA type classification system work its way into the sport. In my opinion, we do not need a 1st B Class award in 3 Gun so what's the point of having a classification system.

Just my .02

+1 on this. Let USPSA be USPSA and let 3 gun be its own. No need to recreate something that already exists.

[SteveT-NV]

Sorry if I missed this, but I can't find the rules for scoring the classifiers on the 3-Gun Nation Website - says they are TBA. Since we will be running one of the classifiers at our next match next week I just wanted to check on the scoring. Is it the same as for the Pro series (as below)?

9.1.4 Any 3GN reactive paper target designated as a "shoot" target must have either one "Center" hit in the 8" Red circle OR have two hits anywhere inside the 17.25" Black circle to avoid penalty.

9.1.5 Scoring targets with penalties include:

9.1.5 a) One hit in the 17.25" Black circle and NO hit in the 8" Red circle = 2.5 second penalty for the Miss on Target (MOT)

9.1.5 Target Not Engaged (TNE)= 2.5 second penalty for not making the minimum one center hit, plus 2.5 seconds for the TNE Procedural, for a total penalty of 5 seconds per target.

9.1.5 c) Only holes made by bullets will count for score. Evidence of the actual bullet must be present on the target, i.e. crown or grease ring mark on the hole. Holes made by shrapnel, fragments or flying debris will not count for score.

9.1.6 Knock down (KD) style plates must fall to score.

9.1.6 a) Any KD plate engaged with SHOT must FALL to score.

9.1.6 If a KD plate is struck by a Rifle or Pistol bullet and the bullet turns or spins the plate, but does not fall, the competitor will get score/credit for the KD plate in question.

9.1.7 Failure to knock down a KD plate will result in a 2.5 second penalty.

9.1.8 Failure to engage a KD plate will result in a Target Not Engaged. 2.5 seconds for the TNE Procedural and a 2.5 second penalty for a miss, for a total penalty of 5 seconds per target.

9.1.9 Metal scoring targets will be painted before each competitor.

9.1.10 Frangible targets (Clay birds) must break to score, one BB hole is a break.

9.1.11 Engaging but not breaking a frangible target (miss) 2.5 seconds, per target.

9.1.12 Failure to engage a frangible target will result in a Target Not Engaged. 2.5 seconds for the TNE Procedural and a 2.5 second penalty for the miss, for a total penalty of 5 seconds per target.

9.1.13 All props, walls, barriers, vision screens and other obstacles are deemed to be impenetrable "hard cover".

9.1.14 Walls can be shot under and over only when permitted by the written stage briefing.

Edited March 29, 2013 by SteveT-NV

[csole]

got to this link...rules towards the end....http://memberships.3gunnation.com/content/html/clubseriesinfo.pdf

Edited March 29, 2013 by csole

[Lead-Head]

You know, shooting the classifier separate from the match, or where it may not count in the match, might make a little difference how far folks may let it "hang out" when shooting these at the clubs. Last week at BGSL the classifier counted as one of the stages in the match. Not sure if this makes a difference or not. I have watched some of the top pros shoot these online, and if their times are setting the standard, there will not be very many shooters breaking 75th percentile.

[Jesse Tischauser]

That sounds just like USPSA. Most shooters are C class and below if I'm not mistaken.

[kurtm]

I run a local 3-gun match. Someone posted my e-mail address so "all" the local guys could push for becoming a 3-Gun Nation club affiliate. Well it has now been 3 weeks and said "poster" might be interested to know that not one e-mail has ever been generated from his medling. I sure don't mind the idea of it, but we are a non profit club and can't be associated in anyway to an entity that makes money from our facility....but I sure admire the style of it!

[Dan Sierpina]

That sounds just like USPSA. Most shooters are C class and below if I'm not mistaken.

That's probably right, not everyone has the time, money or physical ability to get to the top of the pile. We just pay the bills.

[Jesse Tischauser]

I run a local 3-gun match. Someone posted my e-mail address so "all" the local guys could push for becoming a 3-Gun Nation club affiliate. Well it has now been 3 weeks and said "poster" might be interested to know that not one e-mail has ever been generated from his medling. I sure don't mind the idea of it, but we are a non profit club and can't be associated in anyway to an entity that makes money from our facility....but I sure admire the style of it!

You should check with your accountant. In sure the places you buy targets from ate for profit companies too.

[kurtm]

Purchase, and affiliate are two different concepts. The difference in this case is that the club series uses club property to generate income, while target barn supplies a consumable good that is used to the benefit of the range. Now before we start saying well USPS and SASS, charge for classifiers please remember that those are set up as non profits as well. This is more along the lines of "send lawyers guns and money:, instead of " I have accountants pay for it all".

[Jesse Tischauser]

Purchase, and affiliate are two different concepts. The difference in this case is that the club series uses club property to generate income, while target barn supplies a consumable good that is used to the benefit of the range. Now before we start saying well USPS and SASS, charge for classifiers please remember that those are set up as non profits as well. This is more along the lines of "send lawyers guns and money:, instead of " I have accountants pay for it all".

How does your club handle instructors teaching classes and charging the students for those class? Surely those instructors aren't non profit organizations. If so I need a refund on those two classes you taught me.

[kurtm]

I had to jump through all sorts of hoops, but the bottom line was I had to rent the facility for a donation to another non profit, but why should that matter? Besides I'm sure the value of the class was wanting and a refund should have been applied for long ago.

[kurtm]

Might I recommend a law degree with a specialty on non profits before we continue? All I know is what I had to do, I myself don't know any of the legal point.

[Benelli Chick]

At Boulder Rifle Club, they would prefer you not even try to teach a class for profit.

The CLUB buys materials and charges for the CCW classes etc, but we're all volunteer instructors.

Same for most of the ranges I belong to. I can't make a profit using club property!

Some people can do an arrangement similar to Kurt's in order to get a class in, but it's difficult.

A lot of these clubs are set up as non-profits, or owned my members, and in the end, doing things for profit makes the lawyers batty!

Just one of those weird things! I'm not a lawyer, I just know what they tell me!

RM3G and Johnson 3-Gun are both non-profits as well! (We're not Charitable non-profits, but we accept charity anyway! )

Everything just get more and more complicated!

Denise

[AlamoShooter]

Edited March 31, 2013 by AlamoShooter

[urikagold]

Here in MN we have the "problem" of lots of new shooters coming to our sport, and a lot of that has to do with 3GunNation. The problem it poses is that we just had our first match of the year, and the starting temperature for the match was 8 degrees. I was thinking that with the low temps we might have a light showing of shooters. We had 68 shooters show up to shoot. With most of our bays being in the 100 yrd or under range, and very difficult to find bays of 200+ yrds, it gets challenging to think up stages that challenge shooters, but don't take a long time to shoot or reset.

The 3GunNation Classifiers are nice short courses of fire that fit in pretty much any bay in my area ranges. They do challenge different "shooting" skills and use targets that we are all familiar with. Their rules are slightly different, but not so much so that it would really cause any problems. If anything, for new shooters, it makes things easier. At our last match the few DQ's we had took place when new shooters were attempting to quickly unload their weapon prior to abandoning it, as compared to no DQ's on the one stage that I set up to be similar to a classifier where all weapons were abandoned right in front of the shooter "on safe".

We plan on running our matches the exact same way that we always have, same types of courses of fire, with the only difference that one stage now and then will be a "Classifier". All shooters will shoot the same courses, but no shooter will be forced to become a member of 3GunNation Club Series unless they want to. We also plan on putting on a Classifier Match with five classifier stages layed out for all of the shooters to run through.

I have to be honest and say that one of the reasons I have jumped on board the Club Series is for selfish reasons. I am running out of new ideas for stages and these classifiers were an easy out in that regard. As for obtaining any sort of special classification I could really care less, but I am lucky enough to be able to attend several Major matches across the country, most of our local shooters never get that chance. Or their own fear keeps them away, maybe once they see how their skills stack up you will see more newer shooters coming to bigger matches.

I guess what I am saying is that I am keeping an open mind to this whole thing and I will give it my best shot to ensure its success in our area. Our shooters are hungry for it so we will see how it goes. I am hoping it will be just like when I switched from a Glock to an STI. They both do the same thing, just in a little different way, I tried both while keeping an open mind and found one was better "for me" than the other. Hopefully this Classifier Series will just be another tool to make 3-gunning better.

Very well said, Brian.

The same is true of our local club that is part of the 3GN Club Series. Small pistol bays, a lot of new shooters. All of the guys that either don't have the desire or opportunity to shoot major matches are excited about being a part of it.

+1 on these responses. We only average 15 shooters at our matches, and probably only half will want to participate. I hope our head shed gives us the o.k. to become involved.

[airborne101]

When will the rankings start showing up on 3gn

[rlillyskygod]

When will the rankings start showing up on 3gn

As soon as you start posting scores.

[KentG]

This one notes I can shoot the whole thing with shotgun. Since Im an open shooter using my Akdal and 15 round mags thats a no brainer. Some of these classifiers look also like I can take advantage of using the shotgun over pistol.

[Jesse Tischauser]

I used to like the idea of the option targets. However I am starting to change my opinion. Nobody ever chooses to load the shotgun over shooting the pistol. So the shotgun is fading out of the game.

[MarkCO]

I used to like the idea of the option targets. However I am starting to change my opinion. Nobody ever chooses to load the shotgun over shooting the pistol. So the shotgun is fading out of the game.

Not true. We had several stages at the Novekse match with option targets and a lot of shooters chose to load the shotgun over shooting the pistol. Just takes good stage design by people who consider the top shooters and the 50% shooters are shooting the same stages.

[P.E. Kelley]

I used to like the idea of the option targets. However I am starting to change my opinion. Nobody ever chooses to load the shotgun over shooting the pistol. So the shotgun is fading out of the game.

At the Pro Qualifier we had within one stage with two arrays of 8 targets (4 clay and 4 steel each) and I ran the shotgun. And I ran it faster than any of the newly crowned Pros. My initial choice was pistol but it was my last stage for the day and I was beat and just could not make the pistol shots. The M2 saved the day!