40 S&W bullet weight for minor.

[dpeters8445]

I'm looking to work up a 130 PF load for IDPA ESP division. The lightest JHP bullets that I have found so far are 155 from Montana Gold. Does anyone no if anyone makes a lighter JHP bullet then 155 G. If not, is the 155 G bullet a good choice? I will be running this load through a 5 inch STI.

Thanks, Doug

[RIIID]

Try Noslers 135 and 150 grain hollowpoints very good bullet and Vit 310 for minor.

Rich

[Carlos]

Hi Doug! I think you will shoot better with a heavier bullet, not lighter. The ESP power factor is the same one they use in Production division; last week the top competitors in the country finished their nationals & one of the top 10 finishers used 180 grain bullets out of a Glock 22 (Todd Sindelar of Team Shooters Paradise, www.shootersparadise.com). His velocity was slightly over 700 fps & his load is one very very fast competition load. I believe he uses Titegroup.

By "fast competition load" I mean the recoil is actually perceived as being LOWER with a heavier bullet than with, say a 135 travelling @ 963 FPS (130 PF). There are 135s out there if you want them, but for competition, I would not load 135s. Too snappy & too slow to get the sights back on target. Better to use 180s at 700 to 750 fps. Try it & tell us what you think.

Doug Johnson

USPSA

NROI

IDPA

Shooters Paradise

[smokshwn]

Doug,

I'll apologize upfront if you are specifically looking for the lightest possible bullet load, but I took your question to ask for a nice shooting ESP load. I currently am shooting a 180 MG over 3.3gr of titegroup. This gives me about 132pf, is 100% reliable and is soft enough to feel like a mouse fart. I shoot this load out of both a 5" SVI and a G35.

Others on the board have even gone to 200gr bullets and report another factor of recoil reduction. It seems the heavier bullets tend to lengthen the recoil impulse thus lessening the perception of the recoil whereas the lighter faster bullets gives a snappier recoil impulse. Good luck, Craig

[dpeters8445]

Thanks for the tips guys. I just assumed that a lighter bullet would be better. I have 180 G zero bullets that I will have to give a try with N 320.

Thanks, Doug

[benos]

A 135 gr Nosler at 1000 fps is sweet load, especially if your pistol has a bushing barrel.

be

[BigDave]

A 135 gr Nosler at 1000 fps is sweet load, especially if your pistol has a bushing barrel.

be

I agree. Loaded long with Clays is really sweet and very accurate.

[D.Hayden]

From another thread..

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16419

I tried this with some Berry's 155 (plated) with TG 3.7, based on this... Sweet! Talk about poof-loads.

It ran over my Chrono at avg 758fps.. about a 117PF. 

They felt very good.

I just ordered some 135's to play with.

I want to try both at about 130PF for Production.

[Mark Perez]

Rainier has 135's in FP and HP designs for 40/10mm.

[BigDave]

Raineers are a cheaper way to go and would be great for practice and local matches.

[Kimberkid]

Save a lot of time and effort and wasted rounds and spring $5 on a phone call to Big Dave. He has, through great turmoil, done more load research on minor pf .40 ammo than probably any man alive. Now to directly contradict myself, 3.7 of clays and a 175 gr lead bullet is a syrupy sweet too.

[Larry White]

I think Precsion is going to offer a 135 black bullet. 135 gr jacketed are expensive. I think I would stay with 180s unless I wanted a little more snap in the gun, then I would try 165s,zero or montana gold. Larry

[Robert Snyder]

For a minor load in my 6" STI I use 165 grain West Coast TC bullets with 3.8 grains of Bullseye loaded to 1.180 which is the length that my gun likes and it shootsa very flat and fast. I was using VV N-310 but I have found that they have changed the makeup of it and it is more snappy than it used to be.

I have also used 180gr. Master Blaster Moly bullets and they shoot real nice as well and they seem to work better with VV N-310 (3.9grs).

You have a lot of data now to experiment with and since you mentioned using N-320 and 180gr MG bullets you may have to up the powder charge to 4.2grs and it should shoot very soft but be sure to check and make sure it doesn't leave alot of unburnt powder behind as this will foul your chamber and mags real fast.

[rmills]

I've been using this load for years in IDPA SSP and ESP:

180FMJ, 3.0 grains Clays, length 1.141"

In the Glock 35 I use an ISMI 13# spring

In the Springfield 1911, I use a 10# spring

PF with a 5" barrel - 135

Good accuracy, no recoil (goes "Poof" when fired)

My 2 cents.............

[Trey]

I've been playing with this load for a month now..

I really like it. I got it from Flex.

Titegroup 3.5 grain

oal 1.135

180 jhp zero

Running a glock 35 with a 15# spring, the brass is in a nice pile next to me. I've had my personal best time on the plate rack using this load.

[Flexmoney]

I thought that looked familar.

There may be a better load out there...I just don't have any reason to go look for it.

[Trey]

Yah. I don't feel the need to reinvent the wheel.

[BigDave]

In my search, I've found that MINOR is a very broad topic. There is a big area to play with in terms of velocity and bullet weights.

In Action Pistol, the speed of the bullet is very important. Too slow and you end up with lead points (for the Mover) that are outside of the target. This is not adventageous to high scoring. At long ranges (like the 50 yd line of the Practical) bullet drop is also a consideration. In this game, in 40, the optimum setup is a light bullet, like a 135 gr Nosler or Sierra, traveling at about 1000 fps. I received this suggestion from Brian as it worked well for him. It works well for me as well.

Slide velocity is another consideration and a matter of personal preference. All things equal (gun, springs, and PF), a light bullet traveling fast will have faster slide velocity than heavy (relatively) bullets going slower. I like crisp actions and the quick feedback achieved from this setup. I'm reminded of how my gun behaves at Major PF, but with less vertical sight movement. I've never experimented with the heavy bullets at ~130 PF.

The bottom line of any load in the action pistol games (USPSA, Bianchi, IDPA, ICORE, Pins) is that they must function in your gun and they must meet the accuracy demands of the game at hand. Once those criteria are met, how the load feels to you, how quickly you receive feedback are solely matters of preference. I say experiment a little. There is no 100% correct answer here. If you can hold a 24" lead at 20 yds and that works for you, run with it.

[dpeters8445]

I got my hands on some Nosler 135 JHP's and loaded some up with 5 G of 320 at 1.170. This load ended up at about 120 PF, cycled the gun good, and shot very tight groups. The cases were black with suit. I'm going to try loading 5 G of 320 at a shorter OAL to see if that gets the pressure up a little more to get rid of the black suit and increase my PF. Hopefully they will still feed with that shorter OAL.

Doug

[BigDave]

dpeters - you might try going to a tad faster powder like 310 or Clays with the 135's. Although I haven't tried 320, Titegroup was also very sooty from incomplete ignition (my guess is the 135's didn't allow for great enough pressure to get a good burn). Another and more important downside was that the loads were very inconsistent over the chrono. They groups were outstanding, even at 50 yds, but the SD was just horrid.

You might also want to add just a little bit more crimp, like even 0.001 or 0.002", it could make enough difference that the pressure will make more use of the powder in the case.

This year I switched to Clays and both the soot and consistency problems disappeared. Clean, clean burn (better than TG at major with 180's) and the SD's were very, very low. Accuracy remained the same.

Just a suggestion.

[dpeters8445]

BigDave,

Thanks for all of the info. I chronoed some more loads today using the Nosler 135 JHP's with N 320. You were right on the money. My velosity spread in a 10 round string was 75 FPS. Put all 10 rounds within 3 inches though at 50 yards.

I bought some Clays powder on the way home from the range today. I need a place to start. How much Clays powder will get 1000 FPS with the Nosler 135's and at what OAL?

Thanks, Doug

[dpeters8445]

Well, I tested the Nosler 135 JHP's with the Clays. 4.1 grains at 1.135 made me 130 PF. This load felt much better then the N-320. The Combination of the 135 grain bullets with the clays powder seems to make my gun track more like a 38 super. I like it. Thanks for all of the help.

Doug

[eric nielsen]

Ditto what Brian said...

For any purpose, any sport, if there's no compensator on your autopistol, it's tough to do any better than a bullet going somewhere around 1000 fps.

Between 950 and 1050fps is a great balance between "soft" recoil and "quick" cycling of the slide.

Over 1050 and you're into supersonic, also known as 'too loud.'

[BigDave]

dpeters - If you're loading long (> 1.160"), I'd start at 4.5 gr and work up slowly. I believe I ended up at 5.0 grains and load at 1.190". That got me about 1030 fps. It never failed chrono at the 'Cup.

As it happens, with both Nosler and the Sierra 135's, 1000 fps gives the optimum B.C. (for you ballistic nerds out there). Read: the bullet is at its optimum accuracy potential at that speed.

[hdgun]

I use 4.5gr Win. 231 w/155 west coast and rainier bullets. I use it as a steel load, about 130pf out off my Caspian Fantom limited forty. Also use it in a STI 5" bull barrel. You would think the gun just goes click instead of bang! Very poofy. Just my 2 cents.