slide forward, hammer down

[Petshopshooter]

What should the procedure be with a pistol that will not drop the hammer/striker unless the magazine is inserted?

Bruce

[GrumpyOne]

Explain situation to RO. Insert empty mag, pull trigger, remove mag, holster gun.

And, it's not "slide forward, hammer down" anymore... It's "If you are finished, unload and show clear. If clear, hammer down and holster."

[grapemeister]

Advise the RO you need to reinsert a magazine in order to drop the hammer. There is no rule gainst it, just make sure you tell the RO what your doing so you don't freak him or her out.

[grapemeister]

Explain situation to RO. Insert empty mag, pull trigger, remove mag, holster gun.

And, it's not "slide forward, hammer down" anymore... It's "If you are finished, unload and show clear. If clear, hammer down and holster."

I don't think it has to be an empty magazine. Correct?

[GrumpyOne]

Explain situation to RO. Insert empty mag, pull trigger, remove mag, holster gun.

And, it's not "slide forward, hammer down" anymore... It's "If you are finished, unload and show clear. If clear, hammer down and holster."

I don't think it has to be an empty magazine. Correct?

Hey, it's your AD/ND....Do it however you want!

[Chris Keen]

If the chamber is clear it wouldn't AD. Right? Just thinking outside the box a little.

[grapemeister]

If the chamber is clear it wouldn't AD. Right? Just thinking outside the box a little.

Check back later, it might take a while

[GrumpyOne]

If the chamber is clear it wouldn't AD. Right? Just thinking outside the box a little.

Use an empty mag...no chance of anything stupid happening, like say the hammer didn't fall all the way for some reason, and the shooter racks the slide to reset the trigger....

Edited January 23, 2013 by GrumpyOne

[Chris Keen]

Ahh .... good point!

Silly me for thinking with my non-lawyer brain!

[grapemeister]

It wouldn't be a DQ, unless the range was called clear by the RO. If for some reason the shooter racked the slide again after the mag was reinserted, I would start the unload and show clear command all over again. An empty magazine in a gun outside of a course of fire is still a DQ, unless, of course, the shooter is at a safe table.

[GrumpyOne]

It wouldn't be a DQ, unless the range was called clear by the RO. If for some reason the shooter racked the slide again after the mag was reinserted, I would start the unload and show clear command all over again. An empty magazine in a gun outside of a course of fire is still a DQ, unless, of course, the shooter is at a safe table.

True, I edited the post.... But still, not a good idea to use a mag with rounds in it...

[Sarge]

It wouldn't be a DQ, unless the range was called clear by the RO. An empty magazine in a gun outside of a course of fire is still a DQ, unless, of course, the shooter is at a safe table.

If the gun were to fire during ICHDH it most certainly is a DQ

8.3.7 “If Clear, Hammer Down, Holster” – After issuance of this command,

the competitor is prohibited from firing (see Rule 10.4.3).

Empty Mag in a gun is not a DQ.

5.2.2 Competitors carrying their handgun in a holster must have an empty

magazine well, and the hammer or striker must be de-cocked. Anyone

found in violation of this rule will be immediately escorted by a Range

Officer to a suitable range or safety area where appropriate corrective

action shall be made.

And I am still trying to interpret what you are saying about a safety area.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Sarge

[D.Hayden]

Personally, the last thing I want to see is live rounds going back into the pistol after I've been shown clear, I don't want that state to change, and I want to be 100%. On pistols like this, I've always had the competitor use an empty magazine.

[Nik Habicht]

Explain situation to RO. Insert empty mag, pull trigger, remove mag, holster gun.

And, it's not "slide forward, hammer down" anymore... It's "If you are finished, unload and show clear. If clear, hammer down and holster."

I don't think it has to be an empty magazine. Correct?

It does if I'm the RO or RM......

Put a mag with rounds in to drop the hammer, and I'll want to see an empty chamber again.....

Range officers control safety procedures -- not competitors looking to game the system..... :devil:

[Nik Habicht]

It wouldn't be a DQ, unless the range was called clear by the RO. If for some reason the shooter racked the slide again after the mag was reinserted, I would start the unload and show clear command all over again. An empty magazine in a gun outside of a course of fire is still a DQ, unless, of course, the shooter is at a safe table.

It would if the gun goes bang.....

[Nik Habicht]

An empty magazine in a gun outside of a course of fire is still a DQ.

Nope. Show me the rule -- hint, hint, it doesn't exist. The procedure for a competitor who has a mag in his/her blaster is for the RO to ascertain that the gun is empty and to get the mag out. And I'd grab a range, never the safety area to check that out. Now if there's ammo in the gun, then that's a match DQ. If just an empty mag, no round or dummy round in the chamber, it's just a polite request to please not do that again.....

[grapemeister]

It wouldn't be a DQ, unless the range was called clear by the RO. An empty magazine in a gun outside of a course of fire is still a DQ, unless, of course, the shooter is at a safe table.

If the gun were to fire during ICHDH it most certainly is a DQ

8.3.7 “If Clear, Hammer Down, Holster” – After issuance of this command,

the competitor is prohibited from firing (see Rule 10.4.3).

Mag in a gun is not a DQ.

5.2.2 Competitors carrying their handgun in a holster must have an empty

magazine well, and the hammer or striker must be de-cocked. Anyone

found in violation of this rule will be immediately escorted by a Range

Officer to a suitable range or safety area where appropriate corrective

action shall be made.

And I am still trying to interpret what you are saying about a safety area.

I was responding to a post, actually two post, that have since been edited by the Grumpyone. If you were to see the two or three sentences he deleted, you would understand what I was talking about in my last post. I said nothing about an accidental discharge not being a DQ.

It was my understandng that an empty magazine in a gun outside of a course of fire was a big no no because it was considered to be a loaded gun, and could be grounds for a DQ, unless the shooteer is at a safe table. I guess I was wrong about that one. Sorry about the confusion guys. This is what I get for messing with the Grumpyone.

[GrumpyOne]

It wouldn't be a DQ, unless the range was called clear by the RO. An empty magazine in a gun outside of a course of fire is still a DQ, unless, of course, the shooter is at a safe table.

If the gun were to fire during ICHDH it most certainly is a DQ

8.3.7 “If Clear, Hammer Down, Holster” – After issuance of this command,

the competitor is prohibited from firing (see Rule 10.4.3).

Mag in a gun is not a DQ.

5.2.2 Competitors carrying their handgun in a holster must have an empty

magazine well, and the hammer or striker must be de-cocked. Anyone

found in violation of this rule will be immediately escorted by a Range

Officer to a suitable range or safety area where appropriate corrective

action shall be made.

And I am still trying to interpret what you are saying about a safety area.

I was responding to a post, actually two post, that have since been edited by the Grumpyone. If you were to see the two or three sentences he deleted, you would understand what I was talking about in my last post. I said nothing about an accidental discharge not being a DQ.

It was my understandng that an empty magazine in a gun outside of a course of fire was a big no no because it was considered to be a loaded gun, and could be grounds for a DQ, unless the shooteer is at a safe table. I guess I was wrong about that one. Sorry about the confusion guys. This is what I get for messing with the Grumpyone.

He is correct in that I edited the post for some mis-information I had in there....I had originally stated that having a round in the mag after ULSC and ICHDH was a loaded gun after the COF was over....The COF isn't over until "Range is clear"...at which point it would be a DQ for a round in the mag....But the point remains...Why do the ICHDAH with a mag that has a round in it? Why raise eyebrows and blood pressures? You aren't on the clock, yet you can still get DQ'ed...Take your time, do it safely, do it right...If you have to, strip the few rounds left in the mag that you just dropped and put it in to HDAH....An unnecessary risk is a risk not worth taking...

[Poppa Bear]

The unloaded mag is not a problem while not in the COF, The problem is you either left the safety area with the mag in the gun or you handled your gun outside of the safety area. It is the gun handling that will get you DQ'ed. That is the NO NO.

Edited January 23, 2013 by Poppa Bear

[GrumpyOne]

It wouldn't be a DQ, unless the range was called clear by the RO. An empty magazine in a gun outside of a course of fire is still a DQ, unless, of course, the shooter is at a safe table.

If the gun were to fire during ICHDH it most certainly is a DQ

8.3.7 “If Clear, Hammer Down, Holster” – After issuance of this command,

the competitor is prohibited from firing (see Rule 10.4.3).

Mag in a gun is not a DQ.

5.2.2 Competitors carrying their handgun in a holster must have an empty

magazine well, and the hammer or striker must be de-cocked. Anyone

found in violation of this rule will be immediately escorted by a Range

Officer to a suitable range or safety area where appropriate corrective

action shall be made.

And I am still trying to interpret what you are saying about a safety area.

I was responding to a post, actually two post, that have since been edited by the Grumpyone. If you were to see the two or three sentences he deleted, you would understand what I was talking about in my last post. I said nothing about an accidental discharge not being a DQ.

It was my understandng that an empty magazine in a gun outside of a course of fire was a big no no because it was considered to be a loaded gun, and could be grounds for a DQ, unless the shooteer is at a safe table. I guess I was wrong about that one. Sorry about the confusion guys. This is what I get for messing with the Grumpyone.

He is correct in that I edited the post for some mis-information I had in there....I had originally stated that having a round in the mag after ULSC and ICHDH was a loaded gun after the COF was over....The COF isn't over until "Range is clear"...at which point it would be a DQ for a round in the mag....But the point remains...Why do the ICHDAH with a mag that has a round in it? Why raise eyebrows and blood pressures? You aren't on the clock, yet you can still get DQ'ed...Take your time, do it safely, do it right...If you have to, strip the few rounds left in the mag that you just dropped and put it in to HDAH....An unnecessary risk is a risk not worth taking...

Loaded Firearm . . . . . . . .A firearm having a live or dummy round in the chamber

or cylinder, or having a live or dummy round in a

magazine inserted in the firearm.

[Nik Habicht]

The unloaded mag is not a problem while not in the COF, The problem is you either left the safety area with the mag in the gun or you handled your gun outside of the safety area. It is the gun handling that will get you DQ'ed. That is the NO NO.

It's however not a dqable problem if the gun proves to be clear, unless the competitor fesses up to handling the gun outside the safety area.....

[tjs375]

I had a person last year at the Ohio match who had to have a magazine in to go hammer down. He told me this before I had him make ready, he had a empty magazine to do it with and asked if I wanted to hold it for him during the cof. After he completed the cof he unloaded and showed clear, and I handed him the empty mag for the last part, he removed the empty mag before putting the gun in his holster. Once the range was clear he thanked me because he had some ro's that made a big deal out of him needing a mag to go hammer down, I thanked him for telling me up front before the cof.

I think the people that have these types of pistols should do it with a unloaded mag, only came across that one all of last year and he told me up front.....making it a whole lot easier.

[aztecdriver]

It needs to be done with an unloaded mag. Remember the commands - "If you are finished, UNLOAD and show clear, If clear hammer down and holster" If you stick a loaded mag back in the gun, it's now a loaded gun by rule. We're required as Nik stated, to go back to Unload and show clear.

[uzi]

hello, ipsc rule more clear

8.3.7.1 Self-loaders – Release the slide and pull the trigger (without touching the hammer or decocker, if any). If a handgun has a device which requires a magazine be inserted to enable the trigger to be pulled, the competitor must, on issuance of the above command, inform the Range Officer, who will direct and supervise the use, and subsequent removal, of an empty magazine to facilitate this process.

[grapemeister]

hello, ipsc rule more clear

8.3.7.1 Self-loaders – Release the slide and pull the trigger (without touching the hammer or decocker, if any). If a handgun has a device which requires a magazine be inserted to enable the trigger to be pulled, the competitor must, on issuance of the above command, inform the Range Officer, who will direct and supervise the use, and subsequent removal, of an empty magazine to facilitate this process.

Yes, it's an IPSC rule, but to my knowledge it's not a USPSA rule. The language appears to be very similar, but USPSA has left out the part about using an empty mag. While I agree that an empty mag should be used, I don't think USPSA requires it. But, I've been known to be wrong in the past!