ErikW Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 I hate travelling hundreds of miles and paying $100+ entry fees to line the pockets of clubs which don't follow USPSA rules, won't admit their mistakes, and won't make things right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bird Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 Wow I can't wait to start competiting. Now I know why Brian kindof got out of the game. Its sounds like the same BS I was putting up with which lead me to quit playing music professionally for a living. talk about bovine feces.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted May 29, 2001 Author Share Posted May 29, 2001 I'm sure the IDPA and SASS ranks include many former USPSA shooters fed up with the gamey/rules/lawyers side of the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted May 29, 2001 Share Posted May 29, 2001 Unfortunately there probably wouldn't be so many gamey/rules/lawyers if the match directors/range masters/cro's/ro's/scorekeepers knew the rules and followed them. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted June 2, 2001 Share Posted June 2, 2001 And the IDPA and SASS people will have to deal with their own version of range lawyers in a little while. they are trying to keep it simple, but the competitive urge must be continually resisted. However, failing to adapt leads to inconsequence. Does anyone really care about the current technique in shooting bullseye? No, it is set in stone and does not lead to innovation. The key is control of the process, not control of the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Fletcher Posted June 2, 2001 Share Posted June 2, 2001 Pat right. If the people that setup and run the matches had a little more knowledge of How to play the game and not just how to apply the rules, matches would run faster because you wouldn't have to stop after every shooter and read out rules. I have heard roomers that there was going to be a handbook made up on "How to be a Match Director". This could solve a lot of the problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted June 2, 2001 Share Posted June 2, 2001 Or make it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 3, 2001 Share Posted June 3, 2001 There are both Range Lawyers and Range Nazis in the IDPA game already. I figure it's just human nature, some people are in the game just to win and others are rigid interpreters of the rules. I play all these games to learn something and to have some fun; I figure on any given day I could beat anyone else in the world or they could beat me. I'm sure if we of Team Ancient were to shoot against the best shooters in the world every day of the year, occasionally one of us mere mortals would wind up in first place because all of the gods had a frain bade on the same day. But I'm also sure that I'd learn something new everyday and that I'd have brain fade most days. As far as the rigid ROs and Match Directors are concerned ---- I think they have to be rigid if it's a safety violation. On the other hand if the shooters makes a mistake and then tries to correct the mistake (i.e. leaving a shooting position before engaging all targets and then backpedaling <safely> into it to shoot the last target or targets) I wouldn't assess a procedural because I figure that correcting the mistake has already cost the shooter enough time and they are not getting an unfair advantage. If people would just take two seconds to step back and look at these situations objectively and without ego we'd all be much better off. Thanks for letting me rant, for some reason I had to get that off my chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted June 3, 2001 Share Posted June 3, 2001 The biggest problem is no one wants to be a match director. So you get the same few people doing, and if they are doing it wrong, they get yelled at by the shooters. Then all of a sudden, you don't have any match director. Next thing you know, no matches. Have you noticed that most match directors are newer shooters? If you don't like the way matches are run, be a match director. Make other people play by your rules. Just beware of the match director's curse. What I really hate is when you are busy trying to set up the courses, and someone comes along, stands around for a while picking their nose and bitching about why the course aren't set up and why it's taking so long. Please remember that this is a volunteer sport. Everyone should pitch in and help whenever they can. There is a pretty high burn out rate among club officers and match directors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunlop Posted June 3, 2001 Share Posted June 3, 2001 Good on you Scooter. I can't stand autocrats, biggots or power mongers, and there are several match directors here that now know that, but I have every sympathy with those volanteers struggling to provide fellow shooters with a match. Everyone should MD a match at least once, teach a few a bit of humility!! P.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted June 3, 2001 Share Posted June 3, 2001 IDPA has its problems and whinners too. Yesterday some guy was bitching cause the auto guys didn't have to do a reload. 11 round stage. So we had to fire 3 then do a reload to keep him from crying. Shoot the course as desrcibe and shut up for gods sake. It's too be fun not a debate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted June 3, 2001 Share Posted June 3, 2001 Funny to find out that this 'Practical' sport is not revolver friendly. If there is a revolver division what does it matter if the course has 11 rounds. Auto's don't reload, revolvers do, they're in separate divisions so whats the big deal. Its the same prob we have in IPSC, a few malcontents complain that courses of fire are not 'stock' or 'iron sight' freindly and are designed for Open shooters. But if we are shooting in different divisions, and there are separate trophies, prizes etc. we are not in direct competition. STFU and enjoy shooting in your own division. If you can't shoot well, or are unskilled in gunhandling, work on it. Or just go and have a good time but don't blame the match/match director/course designer for your problems. I seem to remember in the late eighties and even early ninties being expected to make 50 yd shots with iron sights on 'Open' guns (there were no separte divisions then and scopes had not made it big in matches yet). No body complained, we just shot. I think the best thing we could do for all these sports is eliminate the separation of equipment, adopt some basic rules as to what is allowed. Eg IDPA production guns only, IPSC anything goes. Make it the equivalent of racing, IDPA is touring car with minimal mods, and IPSC is formula 1. And we all just go and shoot. Whatever is laid out, within the rules of safety, just go and have max fun. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted June 3, 2001 Share Posted June 3, 2001 I agree but everybody thinks things should be fair and we should all get a prize. Life isn't fair and the whinners are trying to change this. I don't have a problem with the different divisions. Gives me a good excuse to buy more guns. It is the same as the guys complaing in L10. You shooting against the same class so who cares. It goes back to the fact that nobody wants to take responsibility for their own actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted June 4, 2001 Share Posted June 4, 2001 Unfortunately that attitude is found in every aspect of life now. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 4, 2001 Share Posted June 4, 2001 I move that the word fair and the whole bastardization of the concept of fairness be eliminated from the english language and society as soon as possible. Fair should not mean equal in all respects. I'm PO'd enough right now that I could go on for hours..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted June 4, 2001 Share Posted June 4, 2001 My late, great "Tax Man" once said - "Fair is a childhood dream." be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 4, 2001 Share Posted June 4, 2001 Everyone doesn't weight the same. That can't be fair either. We should get a set of scales at each match. Whoever weights in at the greatest weight should be the "standard" for that day. Everyone else should have to strap on extra weight. As a matter of fact, everyone is not the same height either... And I don't think people should be allowed to wear glasses or contacts. And if you have had laser surgury to fix your vision... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 4, 2001 Share Posted June 4, 2001 Kyle, I'm 6'3" and weigh 375. So while all you guys are strapping on the plates (something that should be funny to see) how about no ports shorter that 5'10". That way I wouldn't have to bend my knees at all.......LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted June 4, 2001 Share Posted June 4, 2001 Nik, somewhere out there is a Cooper tunnel with your name on it...ROFL Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted June 5, 2001 Share Posted June 5, 2001 Pat, Once upon a time I shot an IDPA match that required me to push open a door and engage two charging targets. Well the construction was primitive, no one had a foot on the door frame, and no one yelled STOP when the door and frame went over ---- so I shot the stage. Afterwards the RO asks, Why didn't you ask for a restart? I didn't know if I permanently killed the door, I said, and I didn't want any unfair advantage over the other shooters. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 5, 2001 Share Posted June 5, 2001 Freestyle baby! gotta lov'it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted June 5, 2001 Share Posted June 5, 2001 Nik, I think you and BIG DAVE might just have to change names. 6'3" and 375, Damn! If you come to PA. please behave you're too big to have to roll with. I think there is a guy in Rochester that might have you. He was 6'7" or 6'8" and had to go about 400+ shotgun looked like a toy in his hand. Next time I have to kick a door will you come by and just knock down the building for me. It will save the state on door breaching shells! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted June 5, 2001 Share Posted June 5, 2001 I was at a match once, with a door and one shooter in particular forgot it was a push door, he pulled, it didn't budge so he hauled on it, pulled it right off the hinges...and made his way through the course of fire!...lol Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted June 6, 2001 Share Posted June 6, 2001 When I went to the National Tactical Invitations in '95 there was this one stage that took place inside a mock house. Your opponents are the Yavapai Count SWAT team. You start stretched out on a "bed" with your gun sitting on the "nightstand" beside you. You hear the sound of your front door being forced, you scoop the gun and go. Your gun BTW is a CAR-15 loaded with Simunitions. There is a closet built into the room. Now you just KNOW there's gotta be someone in the closet, right? I must've been pumping a bit more adrenaline than I thought, because I go to push on the door, it's one of those things that are hinged in the middle and push to the side, and it doesn't move. So I push a LITTLE harder....and it comes right off the hinges and lands on the black-suited SWAT guy in the closet. He's trying to get around the door to bring his gun to bear, and he seems a bit confused (you know, because this door just LANDED on him) so I stick my CAR around the door, put the muzzle against his body and pull the trigger. I figured no big deal, right, the guy is wearing a serious vest. And he yells, "OW! Ow! You got me, you got me!" Sounded like a little kid playing cowboys and Indians. So I leave him and move on, and think, "Wow, what a wimp." Little did I know, until later, that when I shoved the gun around the door and into his side, the gun muzzle slipped between the panels of his vest. Ouch. Conctact distance, .223 Simunitions. I felt bad about that afterwards, though probably not as bad as he felt. Part of the stage description BTW was that you were NOT allowed to simply barricade yourself inside your bedroom and wait for the bad guys to come to you. They wanted you to actually go out and meet the enemy. I had a bit of a problem with that. This was supposed to be the National TACTICAL Invitationals, and they forced people to not use the one tactic, in such a situation, that actually makes sense. As Kurt Vonnegut said, "Hi ho." (Edited by Duane Thomas at 8:42 pm on June 5, 2001) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted June 6, 2001 Share Posted June 6, 2001 Isn't that the same match where they shoot RO's? Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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