ZackJones Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I would encourage you if you haven't done so already to write your AD or do like I did and email all AD's, the Pres and ED and let them know you want to see a Production Optics division. The more times we tell them the more likely we'll see some positive steps being taken by the BoD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) I emailed Area 6, but I'll do the same for the rest of the too then Edited to add: just emailed the rest of the AD's, the NROI, the ED, and President. I'm now impatiently waiting on components to arrive, namely Red Dots from Luepold of course I am working 7 days a week for 7 of the next 8 weeks too Edited June 25, 2014 by zhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Had responses from two AD's, one indicated there is not much BOD interest in adding a Division at this time. But he said that could change in the future with more interest. Nice to see the AD's quick response! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I emailed Area 6, but I'll do the same for the rest of the too then Edited to add: just emailed the rest of the AD's, the NROI, the ED, and President. I'm now impatiently waiting on components to arrive, namely Red Dots from Luepold of course I am working 7 days a week for 7 of the next 8 weeks too I'm waiting on parts too, just magazines then I am good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Had responses from two AD's, one indicated there is not much BOD interest in adding a Division at this time. But he said that could change in the future with more interest. Nice to see the AD's quick response! Which AD's did you hear back from. Would you share the response regarding the lack of interest from the BoD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Zack I'll say that I've had responses ranging from cool (not enough interest yet), to luck warm (we are aware of the interest)(this has been discussed before) to seemingly interested (I moved to open due to eye sight). I have heard from Area 1,2,3, and 8 so far. I'm sure these guys are busy, so in less than 6 hours those AD's responded. I would say that is outstanding response time and I thanked them for it. We can only hope that something comes of it. It seems like a natural progression with equipment technology, it's just a matter of being on the cutting edge or not. That's the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUshooter Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I took the advice given earlier about emailing my AD. I can only be hopeful that the BOD will see that they have already accounted for PO, it's called Open. And no I will not share the email exchange since I didn't ask his permission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 I took my XDM 5.25 out for a match yesterday. It was a little ugly as I had only fired about 10 rounds prior to the match and my reloads were too long. I've documented the story so far on the Articles page of my web-site. I plan to keep updating this as the experiment continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Antichrome Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 ... I can only be hopeful that the BOD will see that they have already accounted for PO, it's called Open. ... +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 ... I can only be hopeful that the BOD will see that they have already accounted for PO, it's called Open. ...+1Yeah, let's have all platforms, plastic iron sights and all included shoot open."+1" comments like that started when SS was just an idea too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Yep, Open Division is fine if you have a few thousand dollars just sitting around doing nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I took my XDM 5.25 out for a match yesterday. It was a little ugly as I had only fired about 10 rounds prior to the match and my reloads were too long. I've documented the story so far on the Articles page of my web-site. I plan to keep updating this as the experiment continues. Nice write up. I hope to get mine together and a few rounds downrange in September as I'm working 7 days a week all but one week until early Sept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garyg19 Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 I took my XDM 5.25 out for a match yesterday. It was a little ugly as I had only fired about 10 rounds prior to the match and my reloads were too long. I've documented the story so far on the Articles page of my web-site. I plan to keep updating this as the experiment continues. I like it! Llooking forward to future articles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Antichrome Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Yep, Open Division is fine if you have a few thousand dollars just sitting around doing nothing. Its Open. Its not called the Race Gun Division, or the Thousands of Dollars Just Sitting Around Division. Every gun in the match can be shot in Open. Some guns, if they meet some simple criteria, can be divided out into Divisions. If you want to use an optic, then Open is your only choice. You also have the option of using a comp, big stick magazines, race holsters, etc. If you choose not to use any and every equipment advantage that is legal in your Division, thats your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Yep, Open Division is fine if you have a few thousand dollars just sitting around doing nothing. Its Open. Its not called the Race Gun Division, or the Thousands of Dollars Just Sitting Around Division. Every gun in the match can be shot in Open. Some guns, if they meet some simple criteria, can be divided out into Divisions. If you want to use an optic, then Open is your only choice. You also have the option of using a comp, big stick magazines, race holsters, etc. If you choose not to use any and every equipment advantage that is legal in your Division, thats your choice. Ok, I respect you opinion! Is your line of thinking going to grow the sport to its fullest potential? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 This topic popped up on the Area 6 Facebook page over the weekend. Our AD, Jay Corn, weighed in with the following comment "I can't see it happening. Too many rules to change/add, too many programs to change and theres more" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 There are two rules that would need to be changed from Production to the new Production Optics Division, I'm not sure what he means by too many programs to change, is he referring to Practiscore because if so I think they can add/remove divisions very easily with that program? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 There are two rules that would need to be changed from Production to the new Production Optics Division, I'm not sure what he means by too many programs to change, is he referring to Practiscore because if so I think they can add/remove divisions very easily with that program? Only 2 rules?Sights (this one is obvious), weight (add sight must add weight to production list),fit in box (need to remove this or build new official boxes with new dimensions), mag length (if you remove the box I will ad longer base pads to ease loading) would it be limited to only slide mounted dots? How about frame mounted compact sights (like lasers, or a small frame mount that puts the micro dot in the same place as a slide mounted one or some new sight that is not invented yet) would there be a limit on where on the slide (if that was a rule) the sight could be mounted? If you think simple changes will get you a simple division you are forgetting the competitive nature of the shooters that will do whatever they can get away with for any perceived advantage. tell me again how a stock II with a dot and a bunch of custom trigger parts that costs $3k is going to make it easy to be competitive on a budget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 My article indicates the two rules that would have issues when creating the addition Production Optics division based on the existing Production rules. Namely 7 and 13. Rule 7 refers to the Box, so that would have to change , depending on whether a box was required would then affect the magazine rule so if the box was removed then there would need to be a restriction on the magazine base-pad size instead. Rule 13 refers to the type of sight, currently notch and post, so that rule would have to be altered for the new division and that rule could then limit the type of sights, ie. slide-ride red-dots. Your reference to a Stock II with custom parts is a choice issue, most other Production guns are significantly cheaper. Many people may own production-ready guns already but don't use them in competition, so this new division would allow them to compete with a red-dot for the cost of that scope and any work done to the slide. For me, the cost was just $45 for the mounting plate as I already had a DeltaPoint scope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 There are two rules that would need to be changed from Production to the new Production Optics Division, I'm not sure what he means by too many programs to change, is he referring to Practiscore because if so I think they can add/remove divisions very easily with that program? I don't know what he meant. Perhaps it's back office programs, etc. Jay's a member here, perhaps he'll chime in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 the problem I see is taking our most complicated division and adding another layer of complication to it so competitive people can perceive themselves to be more competitive with budget equipment in this new "simple" division, until someone wins a title with a expensive gun then they will "need" to build a new expensive gun so they can't think they are being held back by their equipment. remember any loophole in the rules intended or not will be exploited and stretched to the breaking point, we are racing our guns and many want to compete with the best possible equipment. you just said that competing with more expensive, possibly more competitive equipment is a choice, that is the exact argument I am making. shoot open with your 9mm minor slide mounted dot gun, load you mags as full as you would like add extensions if you want, be as competitive as you like. along the same lines do we need to add divisions for SS optic, Revolver optic, Limited optic and Limited 10 optic? there are shooters with guns that fit all these divisions as well? many have these guns and cant compete either, I wonder how many G22's there are with dots on the slide, they would be at a disadvantage in Production optic scored minor, so they should have a division too right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Interesting how some suggest that we should just shoot Open (btw I respect their decision to do so), but I just refuse to "buy into" full Open. We shoot USPSA, United States Practical Shooting Association, so please explain the PRACTICALITY of an Open gun/equipment. Yes, I'm a bit old school Big Red Dot contraption mounted on the frame? 170mm Big Sticks? Race Holsters? Blast Shields? Thumb Rests? Ok, I think you get my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 along the same lines do we need to add divisions for SS optic, Revolver optic, Limited optic and Limited 10 optic? there are shooters with guns that fit all these divisions as well? many have these guns and cant compete either, I wonder how many G22's there are with dots on the slide, they would be at a disadvantage in Production optic scored minor, so they should have a division too right? J-frame Optic? (probably need to be sub-minor) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 ...... I wonder how many G22's there are with dots on the slide, they would be at a disadvantage in Production optic scored minor, so they should have a division too right? Ok, I'll respond to what I hope was a sarcastic post. Why would a G22 with an slide mounted optic shooting minor be at a disadvantage? Bigger holes in targets shooting minor PF, seems like a win-win to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 Factory ammo is not minor so I was meaning that a large portion of the "target market" for this division has guns that would be better suited to a division that allows for major scoring. Kind of the same think that keeps droves of competitors from using glock 45s in production, legal yes, optimal no, so they shoot L10 or buy a gun for the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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