RAZZ Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 So I have an MTAC, and I'm perfectly happy with it. Or at least I was until all you schmucks started talking about your 6 and 6.5x scopes. So now I have this burning, irrational desire to get a bigger scope. The furthest range I'll likely shoot to is 400 yards. Do I need a 6x? Is it enough of an improvement over a 4x that it justifies the cost? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmshozer1 Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 It is not necessarily the power of your scope but how clear it is. If for example you choose to get a Vortex 1x6, you will have very clear glass and the extra power. It will make those grey plates stand out and at least allow you to see them a lot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianATL Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Just swapped from a MTAC to a Vortex 1-6 and I think it was worth the cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 $1500 worth of practice ammo is a MUCH better use of funds. I have a few top 10 stage placings @ majors with an MTAC. 6x would not have improved my scores. Not saying don't get one, there are some great ones, just improvement in scores it will not give you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianATL Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 $1500 worth of practice ammo is a MUCH better use of funds. I have a few top 10 stage placings @ majors with an MTAC. 6x would not have improved my scores. Not saying don't get one, there are some great ones, just improvement in scores it will not give you. Well you are allowed to sell the MTAC so its not really a 1500 difference. For me the illumination and the reticule are worth it and the 6X is just another advantage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 So I have an MTAC, and I'm perfectly happy with it. Or at least I was until all you schmucks started talking about your 6 and 6.5x scopes. So now I have this burning, irrational desire to get a bigger scope. The furthest range I'll likely shoot to is 400 yards. Do I need a 6x? Is it enough of an improvement over a 4x that it justifies the cost? Thanks I remember a few years back when everyone was giving me a hard time about having a 6x Swarovski saying that power was not needed. I feel it is an advantage and its a variable power scope you don't have to use 6x when its not needed. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 Nice to have, fun to have, certainly cool. Not needed. Buy ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke8401 Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 For those with 6x, do you think it allows you to see your hits on distant steel, say a 400yd MGM, and move on before waiting for the hit call? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Adam Carter Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 My son and I both shoot Swaro 6x scopes with BRT. The more I use them the more I love them due too the quality of glass. CLEAR, CLEAR, CLEAR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphamikefoxtrot Posted December 8, 2012 Share Posted December 8, 2012 The 6x is the only thing holding you back from winning every match you enter. Go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAZZ Posted December 8, 2012 Author Share Posted December 8, 2012 The 6x is the only thing holding you back from winning every match you enter. Go for it! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loneranger04 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I've got the Tac30 and am thinking about going to the Vortex 1x6 too. It wold be nice sometimes to have the extra power, on those 300 yard shots, but I'd like a little better quality of glass and if I'm going to change up, might as well change up for the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loneranger04 Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 I've got the Tac30 and am thinking about going to the Vortex 1x6 too. It wold be nice sometimes to have the extra power, on those 300 yard shots, but I'd like a little better quality of glass and if I'm going to change up, might as well change up for the better. Or maybe not! Jeez, just looked up the price. Optics Planet is at $1400! There has to be a cheaper hobby...guess I'll buy me a cane pole and some shiners... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphamikefoxtrot Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 You will see an advantage by going to an optic with a better reticle than the tac30. The center dot is 2.4 moa iirc. I always had trouble on shots over 250-300 with that reticle. I went to the bushnell elite 1-6.5 and not only is the magnification a plus, but the reticle made tons of difference. It is a bit cheaper and lighter than the vortex 1-6. I think it compares very favorably with the swaro, as long as you keep in mind that the bushnell is 1400 or so cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broke_again Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 Quality of glass counts more than magnification. I invested in the Vortex 1-6 and is was well worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregSmith Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 (edited) I hate to re-direct the subject line, but it's sort of on this topic of wanting/needing more magnification. Some of the people helping me get into 3 gun suggested I go with a 4-12 scope and use back-up irons for the close stuff. With my ego getting in the way I decided to go with the Leupold VX-6 1-6. Well, being a new shooter, I went to sight it in and even at 6x, the target at 100m looked really far away... All of the sudden, their point was made. That target would look a lot better if I had 12x magnification. On the opposite side of the coin, another great shooter gave me advice and said get a true 1x so you aren't "prairie doggin it" (poppin your head up over the scope to check the target because you're too zoomed in.) So, just like the guy that's looking for the 1-6, is a 4-12 a bad strategy for a new guy? Or, do you stick with your 1-4 or 1-6 and just get better at shooting? Edited December 10, 2012 by GregSmith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Sorry, but it ain't the magnification or the reticle. Kurt, Kelley, Patrick, James, West have all posted scores in Limited that would have placed them in the top ten in Tactical-Optics using Irons or a 1x in Limited. Heck James won the long range stage (best score of ALL Divisions) at Blue Ridge in 2010 with a Prismatic. Yeah, you need quality gear, but you don't need 6x. When James, Adam and I started shooting 3 gun in 2005/2006, I had a 3x9, James had a 6-18 and I think Adam had a 4-12. I went to 2-7, then 1.5-6, then 1-4 the last three years with steady increases in score. James also went to less and less magnification, all the way to 1x. I was stubborn and did not listen either when the experienced and wiser shooters told me to get a 1-4 and practice. Unless you are shooting at least 75% of the match winners in majors, you are wasting money on a 1-6 that should be spent on practice ammo and gear that will actually help you improve scores. Is a 1-6 better, sure. Will it improve your scores more than shooting $1000 of rifle ammo from 300 yards on out? No! A 1x12 scope won't help if you don't know your zeros and holds. There are 4 or 5 majors that even have targets past 400 yards where higher magnification might help. Having worked one of those for 6 years, I saw firsthand that 60% or more of the shooters had no clue where their rifle hit past 200 yards. Even sitting at the sight in range, not under match conditions, is often painfull watching guys trying to get hits on huge targets at 300 yards on out. A top 30 shooter walks up, gets 4 or 5 hits and leaves after 5 mintues. Very telling. So Greg, practice will improve scores far more than higher magnificaition. You may want it, but you don't need it. I'm sure I don't recognize eveyones online handle vs real name, but it does not appear that there are many, if any top shooters posting here that you "need" 6x. I know most of them have some sort of Optic deal that they need to be careful of, and a lot of them have 1-6s, but most of them did not have a 1-6 until the last few years. I don't know of anyone in the top 30 that runs an optic and side irons unless it is due to sponsorship. That was a good bridge technology for a few years, but no longer. I know there is one at least who ran/runs a 1.5 on the low end, there might be one or two more, but that is rare too. So, you can buy something that won't help and then 5 or 6 years from now tell new shooters how you did not listen and based on your errors, they should go get "xxxx" and practice instead of spending more money on the newest whiz bang equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Snap! Mark said it all. 1x low end is far more useful then >4x high end. There is nothing wrong with 6x and if you really believe that you will score better with higher magnification then by all means... it's your coin. The real question on the table is... Can you you buy scores and if so, where's do you reach the law of diminishing returns? The answer is that you can not buy scores or skill. You have to earn it with range time. If you can afford a nice 1-6x and enough practice ammo to be good then good on you. I'd like to have one of those new Vortex jobs myself, but It won't put a single point on my score card, so it's on my nice to have list, and most of my funds are used to buy bullets and powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOA Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 Since 90% of all shots are less than 50 yds, why would you need a 6x scope? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted December 10, 2012 Share Posted December 10, 2012 (edited) Since 90% of all shots are less than 50 yds, why would you need a 6x scope? That really depends on the match. Up here I would say about 50% of the shots are less than 50. Plus while there may be less targets at longer ranges generally these take shooters more time and more rounds to hit these fewer targets. I put together a stage that if you shot it perfectly it would have taken 34 shots. Most people put well over 90 rounds down range and a lot of people pared out. Lots of people were cussing my stage too. Longest range was 180 yards. Targets were all 4moa or larger except for the bonus. But the angles and positiosn they had to fire from made life difficult. So round counts can be decieving. I shot heavy metal the other day using a red dot and it really made me appreciate how much easier the Swarovski on 6x makes hitting those pesky poppers at 100 yards and beyond. Hitting those peskys at 100 yards with the red dot was really hard. Practice and skill are more important but if you have the money having 6x will give you an advantage over someone who does not. I will take every advantage I can afford. Pat Edited December 10, 2012 by Alaskapopo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeSLC Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 The responses from Alphamikefoxtrot and MarkCO represent the two voices in my head for many decisions. The one you want to hear and the rational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry weeks Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 MarkCO said it well and that really needs no additions. That said, I'm going to add. I shoot an EOTech in tac iron and need a whole lot more practice working around/through barricades than I do seeing the target. The 1 minute dot doesn't cover too much, even on long range targets. I no longer shoot from a bench when sighting in, I lie down on the ground and use my mags as a mono-pod, not many benches in 3-Gun. For setting the 50 yd zero, after I zero from a bench, I find something to use as a wall and double check from that. Being able to shoot from wobbly barricades and angled-gun, goofy positions will help more than 6x. Jerry Miculek told me he shoots 50-60,000 rounds a year. It takes that kind of committment to be a great shooter. If you spend the scope money on 3000 rounds of rifle ammo and practice at no closer than 250 yds, I'd bet you'll beat the majority of non-pros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opticspecialist Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 (edited) i've been shooting that vortex 1-6 and I really like it, I can see and engage targets out to 600 with ease, i like the swarovski as well, but cost is a lot higher. there are a lot of rifles that shoot very very well on the market, but you have to have the glass to maximize effectiveness. always invest in the best glass you can. Edited February 25, 2013 by opticspecialist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WFB Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 I agree with Larry, my personal view on the matter from a guy that has shot Eotech for the last 2 seasons is that as a new shooter coming into Multi-gun, rather spend the extra cash on practice ammo than the scope. I believe that the larger mag scopes will only get you into trouble rather than helping. There are some good affordable 4x scopes on the market that have proven then selves on the 3-gun circuit.... Or come shoot tac-irons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevan126 Posted February 28, 2013 Share Posted February 28, 2013 I have a Swarovski Z6i brt on my JP LRP-07 and I love it, the most important factor is the Clarity of the glass. And of course practice, practice, and more practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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