2013 United States 3 Gun Amateur National Championships

[Flatland Shooter]

If the Pros are also the RO's, let them shoot a day early like the RO's at other matches do. Give them their own prize table.

My guess is a lot of the Am's would show up a day early to watch them shoot.

And since I'm giving out my opinion, if I have a Pro as and RO, I say suspend the coaching rule just for this match.

[Doug S]

Ken,

Fantastic idea!

You could also use USPSA classifications to help determine Pro or Amateur. From a lower "B" class shooter's eyes (mine), GMs would be considered Pros and most Master class could also be. USPSA designates these two as the top 15% and if you include "A" class then it would be the top 25%. Now before everyone starts giving me hell over this, I said it could be used to HELP determine status. I know most "A" class and Master class shooters are not sponsored shooters but they are still in the top 25%.

On the other hand, just because you are sponsored doesn't make you a Pro shooter. I am seeing more sponsors looking for the "A" and "B" class shooters to sponsor since they are more of us and we tend to influence the newer shooters at our home clubs on equipment purchases. I personnally did not look to see what Jerry M, Mike V or any other Pro was using when I bought my gear, I looked to my local heros irreguardless if they were sponsored or not.

I also feel if a shooter has participated in a PRO/AM match as a PRO, then they should be considered a PRO for this match. Look at the standings for USPSA handgun Nats and compare those stats to larger 3 gun matches. You will see alot of the same names.

Last but not least, the Lewis scoring system is a very good system for amatuer shooters to garner some of the top prizes! My shooting buddy won his AR using this system at a Tri-Gun Challenge, many years ago, and is still using it today! I believe he won it as the top shooter in "D" class. If he had been shooting the current format he would not have had any better chance to win a gun then the majority of us. I try to go to 2-3 major matches in a year, (that's all my schedule will allow), and I know that I will not win one of the major prizes because I am competeing against all the Open shooters, but this match will finally give me a chance.

I have shot the CMMG match twice and the DPMS Tri-Gun Challenge 3 times and one thing I really liked was the way the prize tables worked. The guns and higher valued prizes were displayed but the remainder of the prizes were bagged. This made the prize tables run alot faster. I enjoy shooting the SMM3Gun match (my favorite match of the year) but the prize tables take 2-3 hours to get through because everybody goes back and forth before they make up their minds. At the above mentioned matches you picked a bag and then we all opened our bags at the match and showed off what the sponsors donated. They still get their exposure and we get done in half the time. Just a thought.

Ken, thanks again and I hope to see you in September.

Doug

Edited December 17, 2012 by Doug S

[Bob Hostetter]

Again, I continue to see the confusion of mixing winners with professionals, they are not automatically the same thing. For example there are a lot of NASCAR drivers who are professionals but rarely if ever win a NASCAR race. Bobby Jones won a lot of golf tournaments but derived no income from it and is considered one of the greatest amateur golfers to ever play the game. John Daly on the other hand is a Pro golfer but rarely wins anything but he is still a pro.

If you derive a substantial portion of your income, either directly or indirectly, as a result of shooting in competitions, you are a professional. If you have a day job as a plumber but compete and have won matches you are just a plumber that shoots well and is probably an amateur.

Most of your trainers or instructors for example should be considered pro 'shooters', maybe not pro competitors, but pro shooters. They use competition shooting to advertise their classes and validate their skills, increasing their income, and that would make them a pro. A lack of success in the competition arena doesn't negate their pro status, merely indicates that their skills lie elsewhere, hopefully ... :-)

[co-exprs]

You know, there are top dogs in this sport whom most of us are familiar with by demonstrated performance. Might be easiest to simply identify those you'd like to sit out and simply ask them nicely to not play.

[Boxer1]

I think it is a great idea and Ken is doing a great job of helping grow the sport and award some newer shooters.

[di liedorff]

Sounds like a cool idea, but I am interested in how you are going to determine eligibility.

Kalani

the answer is 'no' obi wan kalani!

[bigjon2]

This match sounds great. My wife and I both love shooting 3-gun but we finish in the lower 75% most of the time. For us its more fun to shoot the stages than try to compare our performace with the pro shooters. We will have to try to free up some time to come back to this great range again.

[NMBOpen]

When can we expect a website link for registration?

[DyNo!]

This is simple-

Techwear shirt = Pro

Tank Top = Amateur

Can I compete if I don't wear a shirt?

[Doug S]

Any more info available on this match?

[abn-rgr]

The application is at the midwest 3 gun webiste but still no info on who is eligible.

[EaZeNuTZ33]

http://amateur3gunnationals.com/

Hope to get some concrete definitions of what constitutes a pro/am for the match to see if I could shoot it. I like the idea of another match to shoot this year, and may try to help RO the match if possible.

If there are enough volunteers to RO for the match, I like the idea of a squad RO that sticks with each squad, keeps score, watches over some of the shooters that may need help on their first time out, .....and a stage RO that stays with their given stage for the rules, timer, and continuity of how the stage is run with every squad to keep things fair. Just a suggestion.

[TMC]

Well, a few shooters have been eliminated by having the match on the same weekend as the Handgun Nationals.

[Flood]

Folks,

After much thought, I believe the easiest and most judicial way of determining amateur status is to start with excluding anyone who is currently in the 3GN pro series.

Obviously, there are great shooters not participating so we will look at these individuals on a case by case basis if they enter. An example would be Kurt Miller who graciously offered to R.O with no expectation of shooting the match.

Again, the goal of this match is to have a format for the "Average Joe" 3 Gun shooter (which makes up about 90-95% of the sport) and allow them to compete for a national championship in a Lewis Class scoring system. USPSA and IDPA do this with their classifications and we, as a sport, should be no different.

While there has been a ton of focus on the 3GN Pro Series, the rest of us have, I my humble opinion, been left out. Some us our match dates have even been hijacked (Midwest and Ozark) and had Pro Series matches scheduled the same weekend. At first I was upset at the lack of professional courtesy but now I see it as a blessing in the fact that it allows me to focus more on the amateur competitors who tend to appreciate our efforts more than some professionals.

Please understand that I am not knocking the 3GN series and I appreciate everything Chad and Pete have done for the sport. I just believe that the same attention can and should be paid to the 3 gun masses. In short, there is room and merit for both.

Please check our website www.amateur3gunnationals.com for updates and entry forms.

I also welcome any input from everyone on this match and format.

Thanks,

Ken Flood

[Team Adam Carter]

Ken, Would you consider reduced entry fees for junior shooters?

[72stick]

Folks,

After much thought, I believe the easiest and most judicial way of determining amateur status is to start with excluding anyone who is currently in the 3GN pro series.

Obviously, there are great shooters not participating so we will look at these individuals on a case by case basis if they enter. An example would be Kurt Miller who graciously offered to R.O with no expectation of shooting the match.

Again, the goal of this match is to have a format for the "Average Joe" 3 Gun shooter (which makes up about 90-95% of the sport) and allow them to compete for a national championship in a Lewis Class scoring system. USPSA and IDPA do this with their classifications and we, as a sport, should be no different.

While there has been a ton of focus on the 3GN Pro Series, the rest of us have, I my humble opinion, been left out. Some us our match dates have even been hijacked (Midwest and Ozark) and had Pro Series matches scheduled the same weekend. At first I was upset at the lack of professional courtesy but now I see it as a blessing in the fact that it allows me to focus more on the amateur competitors who tend to appreciate our efforts more than some professionals.

Please understand that I am not knocking the 3GN series and I appreciate everything Chad and Pete have done for the sport. I just believe that the same attention can and should be paid to the 3 gun masses. In short, there is room and merit for both.

Please check our website www.amateur3gunnationals.com for updates and entry forms.

I also welcome any input from everyone on this match and format.

Thanks,

Ken Flood

HI Ken,

I tried downloading an entry form but nothing happens. Is the match full or can you still sign up?

Thanks!

[Flood]

Ken, Would you consider reduced entry fees for junior shooters?

Yes. $200.

[Flood]

Folks,

After much thought, I believe the easiest and most judicial way of determining amateur status is to start with excluding anyone who is currently in the 3GN pro series.

Obviously, there are great shooters not participating so we will look at these individuals on a case by case basis if they enter. An example would be Kurt Miller who graciously offered to R.O with no expectation of shooting the match.

Again, the goal of this match is to have a format for the "Average Joe" 3 Gun shooter (which makes up about 90-95% of the sport) and allow them to compete for a national championship in a Lewis Class scoring system. USPSA and IDPA do this with their classifications and we, as a sport, should be no different.

While there has been a ton of focus on the 3GN Pro Series, the rest of us have, I my humble opinion, been left out. Some us our match dates have even been hijacked (Midwest and Ozark) and had Pro Series matches scheduled the same weekend. At first I was upset at the lack of professional courtesy but now I see it as a blessing in the fact that it allows me to focus more on the amateur competitors who tend to appreciate our efforts more than some professionals.

Please understand that I am not knocking the 3GN series and I appreciate everything Chad and Pete have done for the sport. I just believe that the same attention can and should be paid to the 3 gun masses. In short, there is room and merit for both.

Please check our website www.amateur3gunnationals.com for updates and entry forms.

I also welcome any input from everyone on this match and format.

Thanks,

Ken Flood

HI Ken,

I tried downloading an entry form but nothing happens. Is the match full or can you still sign up?

Thanks!

I will check. Match is not filled up.

Ken

[Flood]

Brownell's has agreed to be the title sponsor for this match.

Thanks to Larry Weeks and everyone at Brownell's!

Ken

[EaZeNuTZ33]

Awesome to hear about Brownells at MW3G.

I was glad to see there wouldn't be a time conflict with something else I have going on the previous weekend.

ken.....i'll shoot you an email about RO'ing for this one since I wasn't able to RO the MW3G

[Jesse Tischauser]

Excluding pros would be like excluding LEO/MIL IMHO. If its a random prize table why not let anyone that wants to play in?

[outerlimits]

Excluding pros would be like excluding LEO/MIL IMHO. If its a random prize table why not let anyone that wants to play in?

I could exclude LEO in a heartbeat

[El Guapo]

Excluding pros would be like excluding LEO/MIL IMHO. If its a random prize table why not let anyone that wants to play in?

I could exclude LEO in a heartbeat

What's your problem with LEO's?

[bigbrowndog]

I think the excluding of 3GN pro's is a very easy way of doing the segregation, others that do not play 3GN of course would also fit the criteria. So since I figure I probably fit the non-participation matrix, I'll throw my hat into the RO pool, just don't pair me up with that Kurt Miller guy, i'm sure he's one of the Bastardos, Chucky was refering to early in the topic.........jus kiddin' buddy!!!

BTW, jesse I believe I competed with Matt Mink, in his "first" multigun match waaaaaay back in 2004 or 2005, in San Angelo at the Tx multigun championships, so you must have been at his second attempt, because I don't recall seeing you there

I also think that the masses should get the recognition of MD's, because without them we wouldn't be able to have all the matches we have.

Trapr

Edited June 22, 2013 by bigbrowndog

[Jesse Tischauser]

I think the excluding of 3GN pro's is a very easy way of doing the segregation, others that do not play 3GN of course would also fit the criteria. So since I figure I probably fit the non-participation matrix, I'll throw my hat into the RO pool, just don't pair me up with that Kurt Miller guy, i'm sure he's one of the Bastardos, Chucky was refering to early in the topic.........jus kiddin' buddy!!!

BTW, jesse I believe I competed with Matt Mink, in his "first" multigun match waaaaaay back in 2004 or 2005, in San Angelo at the Tx multigun championships, so you must have been at his second attempt, because I don't recall seeing you there

I also think that the masses should get the recognition of MD's, because without them we wouldn't be able to have all the matches we have.

Trapr

R U calling Matt a liar? He said it was his first match. Does it really warrant a discussion though?

Based on the results I saw last year you could probably pass for an Amateur again. . Just kidding, lol!