Steel popper physically can't fall

[EkuJustice]

How would a steel target, popper in this case hit with a shotgun get scored in a "steel must fall" rule set when the steel is hit but does not fall to to the popper being out of adjustment. We ran into one this last shoot were we just did a reshoot for the shooter as he hit the popper and it was physically unable to fall. The popper was a forward falling popper and the adj screw on the back that limited how far the popper could move back had backed out a ton. When hit, the target fell back and dropped the catch that holds it forward but due to screw backing out leaned way back to the point that there was no way for it physically to fall at all and needed to have the screw reset to allow the target to not fall as far back. Has anyone else seen this where it was truely a range equipment problem ie not a plate the shooter wings and turns 90 degrees due to a poor hit or too little choke and how should it be handled, I understand on the 90 turned plate sorry about your luck hit it harder next time but this is totally out of the control of the shooter and is truely the equipment not working as needed.

PS Forward falling poppers are awful

Edited November 29, 2012 by EkuJustice

[MarkCO]

If you are using USPSA rules, ref. Calibration btw is 9mm, 10 yards, under 125 pf.

[yoshidaex]

REF, reshoot under USPSA rules.

That 90 deg turned plate is also a REF, reshoot under USPSA rules.

[treefarmer]

We had the same thing happen with a popper (forward falling) at the MCC this year, only with a pistol, RM ruled REF, reshoot.

[StealthyBlagga]

Indeed - it is range equipment failure. Under IMA-SMM3G rules, we calibrate shotgun poppers with a 20ga.

I actually prefer fall-forward poppers. If properly designed they are way more reliable, plus fast double taps don't skip lead over the berm.

[EkuJustice]

this is 3GN Rules so a 90degree with a shotgun is not a ref

[outerlimits]

This is bizarre-how can you have calibration, which is based on power factor, used in time plus where there is no power factor? Just sayin'...

[Bryan 45]

I think a little common sense here goes a long way.

How can you have calibration? By shooting it with the one and only gun allowed on this target by the stage description from the location the target is available. (Maybe I'm cheating by answering because I helped set this stage up?)

The difference between this and a 90 degree plate is that a 90 degree plate will still fall. It's just not presenting enough target surface to generally be knocked off without the shooter moving. A forward falling popper that is leaning too far back may as well be leaning against a tree.

[StealthyBlagga]

This is bizarre-how can you have calibration, which is based on power factor, used in time plus where there is no power factor? Just sayin'...

IMA-SMM3G rules:

6.1.6 Knock-down targets will be calibrated before the event begins.

6.1.6.1 Handgun targets will be calibrated with a 9mm handgun using factory ammunition.

6.1.6.2 Shotgun targets will be calibrated with a 20 gauge shotgun, barrel length not to exceed 26”, using a factory 2½ dram, 7/8 ounce load

of 7½ or 8 birdshot.

6.1.6.3 The Range Master will designate specific supplies of 9mm and 20 gauge ammunition, and one or more handguns and shotguns, to be

used as official calibration tools only by the Range Master or designated testing personnel. Designated calibration firearms and

ammunition are not subject to challenge.

Thus the competitor has to use some common sense - if they choose to run ultra-light loads, they roll the dice on whether their ammo will drop steel. No power factor required.

Edited November 29, 2012 by StealthyBlagga

[outerlimits]

This is bizarre-how can you have calibration, which is based on power factor, used in time plus where there is no power factor? Just sayin'...

IMA-SMM3G rules:

6.1.6 Knock-down targets will be calibrated before the event begins.

6.1.6.1 Handgun targets will be calibrated with a 9mm handgun using factory ammunition.

6.1.6.2 Shotgun targets will be calibrated with a 20 gauge shotgun, barrel length not to exceed 26”, using a factory 2½ dram, 7/8 ounce load

of 7½ or 8 birdshot.

6.1.6.3 The Range Master will designate specific supplies of 9mm and 20 gauge ammunition, and one or more handguns and shotguns, to be

used as official calibration tools only by the Range Master or designated testing personnel. Designated calibration firearms and

ammunition are not subject to challenge.

Thus the competitor has to use some common sense - if they choose to run ultra-light loads, they roll the dice on whether their ammo will drop steel. No power factor required.

A well aware of IMGA rules. Actually, a power factor IS required as you state ( I.e. 9mm "factory ammo"). Again, just sayin' it is a bit strange.

[Bryan 45]

You guys never check targets in a walk-thru? If anything is even quesitonable, I'll go up and slap it around, see what kind of hit it would take to knock it over. If a popper seems "heavy", rather than call for calibration I either run a tighter choke or heavier load. Personally, I don't think shotgun targets should be subject to calibration. If a 20g 7/8 oz load w/ IC choke won't knock it over, then the shooter needs to use something heavier.

If this is another discussion about rule sets and lack of clarity, lets just call it a rule discussion and not a target discussion.

[dcloudy777]

This is bizarre-how can you have calibration, which is based on power factor, used in time plus where there is no power factor? Just sayin'...

Well, it may be somewhat disingenuous to refer to a minimum power of ammunition to calibrate a target when there is theoretically no minimum power factor required for competitors, it comes down to a question of practicality. You can't set a popper to fall to harsh language....

DanO

[Steve RA]

Many have tried !!!