wgnoyes Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 I've previously stated, much to the irritation of some stage RO's, that it helps us in stats tremendously if RO's will total the times on multi-string stage scoresheets before sending them on in. The reasons I've given are as follows: 1. ezws prints out a single time on the verify sheets which cannot be verified against the individual times without SOMEBODY adding them up. And on a typical 10 stage major match of 200+ competitors (that's 2000+ scoresheets to handle), it slows things down for stats to have to interrupt data entry to do this ourselves. You're the RO; you have the scoresheet in your hand on the stage; make the extra effort to total up the times. Please.2. Much more importantly. Everyone one of us once in a while lapses and just cannot write down an individual time legibly. You've done it; I've done it; we've all done it. Sometimes the totaled time at the bottom is the only method I've got to calculate what an individual time might have been. If I don't have that totaled time and have a completely illegible individual string time, then at a major match, its a required reshoot because we can't accurately score the competitor's performance. At a monthly match where scoring might not take place until after its all torn down and/or people have left, its a DNF. Either way, the competitor gets screwed out of what he might have regarded as a good performance on the stage. Let's try an exercise now to reinforce the second point. Please score the scoresheet shown at the end of this message and post your totaled time as a reply to this topic, along with any thoughts you might have. This should hopefully be fun! Bn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 As our score keeper would say, rules, 1, 3, 7, and 10, WRITE LEGIBLY. Or else both the shooter and the RO will get their ass reamed by him. It's partly the shooter's fault for not checking over the score sheet to make sure it's correct. I don't think the RO should add it up because some of them have a hard enough time trying to add the hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 I have been having the shooters sign their score sheets (at least put their mark on them). It is the shooters responsibility to ensure that the score sheet is properly filled out. At the local match, I have also mandated the "rule of 3 circles". - one circle if the total hits add up. - one circle for any penalties - one circle for the time This has drastically reduced the number of incomplete score sheets that I get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted August 31, 2004 Author Share Posted August 31, 2004 As our score keeper would say, rules, 1, 3, 7, and 10, WRITE LEGIBLY. Or else both the shooter and the RO will get their ass reamed by him. It's partly the shooter's fault for not checking over the score sheet to make sure it's correct.I don't think the RO should add it up because some of them have a hard enough time trying to add the hits. That's why the stage box for a multi-string stage gets supplied with a calculator, preferably built into the clipboard. We can be proactive and completely fill out the scoresheet, including totaling the times without a lot of additional effort, instead of reaming the shooter, which is decidely NOT customer-friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Based upon a comparison of the hit total and the time I would say that string 3 is 10.4 and give a total time of 30.01 Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 i hate this crap too! also when people don't think the steel is a A hit. the total time i think is 32.06. the 0's are all the same and the last string looks like a 16.40 lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted August 31, 2004 Author Share Posted August 31, 2004 Based upon a comparison of the hit total and the time I would say that string 3 is 10.4 and give a total time of 30.01 wouldn't that be 30.06? (1+5 in the hundredth's column) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tupperware Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 10.21 09.45 16.40 =36.06 I'm convinced string 2 is 9.45. There are four clear examples of the number 5 on this score sheet. This time isn't one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve223 Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 I came up with 26.06 i thought the last string was 10.40,If it is 16.40then its 32.06. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooterj Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 One of our stats guys wouldn't have a problem decyphering it. RESHOOT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted August 31, 2004 Author Share Posted August 31, 2004 One of our stats guys wouldn't have a problem decyphering it.RESHOOT The point being, maybe if the RO had totaled the times, there wouldn't HAVE to be a reshoot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 As our score keeper would say, rules, 1, 3, 7, and 10, WRITE LEGIBLY. Or else both the shooter and the RO will get their ass reamed by him. It's partly the shooter's fault for not checking over the score sheet to make sure it's correct.I don't think the RO should add it up because some of them have a hard enough time trying to add the hits. That's why the stage box for a multi-string stage gets supplied with a calculator, preferably built into the clipboard. We can be proactive and completely fill out the scoresheet, including totaling the times without a lot of additional effort, instead of reaming the shooter, which is decidely NOT customer-friendly. Good idea. I recently picked up a clipboard from Wally-world. You can store the score sheets inside it and keep them out of most of the weather (it's plastic). It also has a calculator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 FWIW, last time I was at Wally World, they had a whole bin of calculators for the grand price of $1.00 each. All five of them survived a steel match (where we make the scorekeeper add the times), but at that price a couple spares won't break the bank either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twix Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Time was 31.06 added in my head quickly. Who are the IPSC shooters that can't add a 3 column problem with a pen in their hand? This is about a 3rd grade skill IIRC. Scorekeeper/Ass. RO should be able to total these and get an approval and sig. from the shooter up-range from the next shooter, so the match can continue. I really like the 3 Circle and sign method. MET on this forum is one of the most conscientious I've seen. He teaches it at local match shooter meetings everytime I get a chance to share his dedication. TomB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twix Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Oops. 32.06 Good thread. Cheap calculators, good. Good. Real good. Same TomB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 No way, let the computer add them up. A multi-string stage is already slowing things down and the poor ARO is probably scrambling to get the scoresheet's rounds summed up and it signed off while the RO is LAMR the next shooter. Writing legibly is another issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Based upon a comparison of the hit total and the time I would say that string 3 is 10.4 and give a total time of 30.01 wouldn't that be 30.06? (1+5 in the hundredth's column) Yes, It is 30.06 Got to learn to read what I type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 32.06 Unfortunatly for the shooter, he can't win. If the scorekeeper has him sign it before it is added (which they all do whether it's in the stats shack or on the stage) then he can't tell if the third score was added as a 10.xx or a 16.xx. The real solution is for the RO's to take the time to make it legible. dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schoonie Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Gotta be 36.06, the last string is weak hand, logically it's slower than the rest. The point is the statistician should not have to guess! Adding the scores doesn't take a rocket scientist, even the shooter has to do it to check the validity of the posted scores. Flex, good idea about the three circles, that will get the score sheet correct on the stage and also help the stats guys not miss anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted September 1, 2004 Author Share Posted September 1, 2004 Okay, this has had pretty much the response I thought it would have. NONE OF YOU got the right answer, with the exception of one person (steve223), and he wasn't completely sure. Times 2 and 3 are written so poorly that it is apparently impossible to accurately score this result with any degree of certainty. But what I'll tell you now is that the RO DID, in fact, total the times! And its a damned good thing he did, too, because when this came across my desk in stats at the 2004 Area 3 Championship, I wouldn't have been able to score it either, if they hadn't totaled the times! Only because of the totaled time of 26.06 as written by the RO on the stage do we see with any authority that the individual times are 10.21, 5.45, and 10.40. A call to the range master and a possible required reshoot were thus avoided. (Of course the times were unspectacular; maybe the guy would have appreciated a reshoot! ) The conclusion is clear and demonstrated beyond doubt: total the times on the stage. We owe it to the competitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Bill...I'll cry fowl...and poor example (but you did make a good point). No way that the middle time looks anything like 5.45 That does show that the RO's need to write clearly...and the shooter need to be certain that the score sheet is easily read before they sign off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted September 1, 2004 Author Share Posted September 1, 2004 I think its a great example; that's why I kept it. Hey, it looks like a 9 to me, as well, especially when compared to all of the other perfectly legible 5's on the paper. But the last one really looked like 16.40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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