LPatterson Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 I've got an electronic scale that drifts between measurements. After calibration and zero I use a known weight from my old balance beam as a cross check. But after a few different measurements, I notice the reading without the pan has changed and the empty pan confirms that zero is no longer zero. Has anyone else had this sort of problem with the discontinued Dillon D-Terminator II? Doing a recalibration and rechecking the load I just finished can show as much as .5 grain difference. What would be a good electronic replacement because I am spoiled and will not go back to the old balance beam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froglegs Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 I had a rcbs partner that did the same thing so I bought a beam scale. I would only use the digital for specific tasks now it was too much of a hassle for regular weight checking. great for different weights was the only plus I liked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NMinzghor Posted August 28, 2004 Share Posted August 28, 2004 I have a Dillon Dterminator but I don't know if it is the II model. Mine will very some. I noticed it holds zero better after it has been on a while. I make sure all the windows are closed and no fans are on so there is no disturbances in the force. I calibrate when I turn it on and then again after it has been on a while. I know what it is supposed to weigh without the pan so if it doesn't come up right, I rezero it. Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froglegs Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 I couldn't even walk on the floor between the reloading bench and the scale without it drifting out of wack. electronic scales are too sensitive to even a slight change it drove me nuts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Electronic scales work off Peizo Strain guages. They are temperature sensitive. If your reloading room / cupboard is colder than the rest of the house, when you go in the temperature will change. My room can get quite cold in Winter and when I go in to reload I will turn on the scales and then the heater, find something that needs doing so that the scales have time to settle and more importantly the room is warm (yes, I hate reloading in the cold). If I need to reload pronto I will check the loads on a balance bean scale that I keep handy. The scales "appear to be" less affected by the room being warmer. According to a freind of mine who works in the Engineering Dept of a local University, even balance beam scale are affected by extreme temperature changes, but not as obviously. Take time to set up properly and if you notice that your scales take a time to warm up then make sure you give them the opportunity to do so. Treat them like a woman, take the time to get them used to something, then all is well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenTX Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Read the instructions, they cover all the gotchas. They will tell you that an electronic scale needs 20 minutes or so to warm up. They are also affected by drafts and breezes. They also need to be on a very solid table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 (My experience in using industrial scales, still haven't coughed up for a personal one yet.) Make sure your scale is level. Put your scale on a hurkin' solid bench. Avoid the use of AC adapters in lieu of battery power when you can. A lot of the calibration problems seem to stem from the use of cheap, unregulated wall warts as power supplies. I would not own an electronic scale that didn't come with a windscreen. If mine didn't have one, I would build one out of plex. They are extremely wind sensitive. I'm of the opinion that most consumer-grade scales, be they balance beam, or electronic, all suffer from deficiencies in the name of cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggorloader Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 My Dillon D-Terminater was new at Xmas 2003. It seemed to work flawlessly for a couple of months but now after I calibrate and zero with the pan it does the same thing. After a couple of minutes it seems to drift and reads a couple of tenths of a grain off with or without the pan. I did call dillon and they gave me a service center address in PA for CED to send it to for check up as they are/were the manufacturer: CED - USA PO Box 486 Orefield PA 18069 Haven't sent it yet but I should as it would be better still under warranty if it is screwed up. I still don't know if they all do that or it is bad. Would like to hear further opinions. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 "Treat them like a woman, take the time to get them used to something, then all is well." LOL...!Give me a reliable balance beam in a semi-heated, climate-controlled (dry!) closet any day. No deviations in mine in over a year. Just like a loving hubby, he's there for me all the time (and doesn't need 20 minutes to 'warm up', nor does he 'drift' ater two months). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Make sure you cover the entire scale with something. Even a big bowl would work. Moving air seems to be the major root of the problem. It's PITA, but that's what you need to do to get them to work right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 My Dillon D-Terminater was new at Xmas 2003. It seemed to work flawlessly for a couple of months but now after I calibrate and zero with the pan it does the same thing. After a couple of minutes it seems to drift and reads a couple of tenths of a grain off with or without the pan. Are you running your scale on batteries, or AC? I remember a while back that lots of folks were having trouble running their scales using wall warts - which is exactly the opposite of what you think would be the case, but it was nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 I had two problems with my Dillon scale acting erratically. The first was the power supply was noisy (motors and such on the same circuit as the AC adapter)-- I fixed that by wrapping the scale end of the power cord twice around a ferrite bead as used on monitors and such. The second drove me batty until I figured it out-- nearby cell phones in use make my scale go completely out of whack. Other transmitting devices probably do the same. Further away the effect may not be as noticeable. But now my D-Terminator scale is happily running on AC and only varies 0.1 occasionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 1. Don't let anything [power cord, papers, cans] touch the balance pan. 2. Put it on the hardest, steadiest possible surface. Chemists put them on granite or marble slabs, you'll do fine with solid wood. 3. Level the balance, THEN calibrate it. 4. Follow the calibration procedure word-for-word. Don't rush. 5. Keep it away from wind, vibration, and strong electrical fields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggorloader Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Are you running your scale on batteries, or AC?I remember a while back that lots of folks were having trouble running their scales using wall warts - which is exactly the opposite of what you think would be the case, but it was nonetheless. Thanks for the suggestions! I've never used the "wall wart" or whatever the AC adapter is. It's still in the package and use batteries only. I use the scale on the countertop which is my reloading bench. It's laminite over double thickness 3/4 high density particle board substrate. It's as level as I could shim it, as I made it and put in in. I calibrate it before every use and right as they tell you. I keep everything at a distance and the room is air conditioned right now in summer. I shut the air off before so to keep drafts down. It still will drift as you use it from zero up to .4 grains and I have to rezero for the pan quite frequently. It kinda makes you distrust it and I don't like that. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Buff Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Temperture, I have noticed, plays a huge role in consitancy with e-scales. I keep my RCBS on the bench and turn it on at least 30 min before use, then calibrate and zero...had no problems since - no drift, wrong readings, etc...and I often check it with the RCBS weight set.... My 0.02 that I hope helped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggorloader Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 I really thought the 20-30 minute warm up time made good common sense to give the scale time to acclimate. I forgot the (damn) thing shuts itself off after 3 minutes to save the batteries which is a drag cause you should rezero again and again. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted August 30, 2004 Share Posted August 30, 2004 Doggerloader, Does your scale have the windscreen? If so, do you leave it on all the time (unless you are removing the pan)? be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggorloader Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 I'm not using the windscreen because the scale worked perfectly without it for quite a while. I'm going to try it today in hopes it will be the solution. Thank's (for the reminder) and I'll report the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggorloader Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Using the windscreen and taking 25 measurements of a known weight of 23.7 gr the scale zeroed weight slowly advanced .4 gr above where it started by the 12th. The known weight declined by as much so as to be 23.4 gr at the 12th measurement. I rechecked the known weight on my beam balance and it was still right at 23.7 gr. A repeat of the same experiment was the same result only it took 15 measurements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Buff Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 Have the scale checked by the manufacturer and use the (apperently accurate) beam in the mean while...no use in not makeing PF or going over the top.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggorloader Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 Called CED yesterday and talked with Charles Hardy and he was more than very helpful. Per his suggestions I plugged the scale in to the AC adapter which keeps it from shutting itself off and left it on overnight. (supposed to rid the static whatever) Have taken 4 (25 checks per) runs with the check weight and it registered exactly the same at 771.7 grains. Three times during the 100 checks it dropped a .1 to 771.6. No drift ! It will take a while to get confidence in it again but it appears it needs an acclimation period to get steady and the adapter is the ticket ) . Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted September 1, 2004 Author Share Posted September 1, 2004 Thanks to everyone who replied to this post. The scale is sitting on the solidist object in the room & I am using the wall adapter but I normally only give it 20-30 minutes to warm up, I will turn it on the night before I plan to reload and see if that improves things. I could use the balance beam but it was bought when I started reloading 40 years ago and I thought it was time to try something a little newer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted September 1, 2004 Share Posted September 1, 2004 That is a nice tip! Haven't heard that one. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougtoad Posted September 19, 2004 Share Posted September 19, 2004 Hmmm, I haven't got my electronic scale yet but what I was going to do was set it up on a 9X12X2 inch b grade granite surface plate that I got from Enco. I had planned to shim it level but isolate it from the rest of what ever bench surface I arrived at with neporene pads. I may go ahead smoke out the air currents where it sets and build some secondary air screens. I wonder if Radio Shuck has a cheap ac line conditioner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Watne Posted January 23, 2005 Share Posted January 23, 2005 Turning off all the fluorescent lights in the house seemed to help mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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