My first TACTICAL div AR

[dirtypool40]

OK, I hate it when people do this in the pistol forums, but I have not seen it in the 3-gun forums, so bear with me.

Base Gun: Bushmaster 20" V-match

Barrel cut to 18”

Barrel fluted as possible.

JP “Cooley Comp"

JP (or other brand) light weight carrier. I'm Leaning towards the aluminum, but like to hear bad exp if they are out there.

Trigger job, looking for single stage, around 3#. I have seen and am really interested in the new McCormick drop in. Everyone on the forums is saying it’s better than the JP. I want to go with the long flat trigger.

Trijicon TA-11 scope.

Other than that, check it out and make sure it’ll run like hell, get it back to me and let me practice.

This is a question in two parts:

1. What features have I left out of my spec sheet for my first TAC division Competition AR?

2. I am pretty much sold on the Trijicon TA-11. Which one (reticle etc) do I want and who has the best price on it?

[rhino]

If that barrel isn't freefloated, you'll want to do that.

Since you're sold on that scope, you might consider some kind of iron sights for close range.

[Cactustactical]

Dirtypool,

there is probably no such thing as a "best price" currently on the TA-11 or any other Acog scope. The full production line is going to military contracts. We get them in stock, more by accident than anything else, perhaps once every 2-3 weeks. Those that do come in go to our pre orders, which are quite often parents or wives of servicemen trying to help them out.

So, what I'm trying to say is: don't expect to find one very easily, if at all, and if you do find one, expect to pay fairly close to full retail.

With those expectations, good luck finding one. They are a good scope for mid range shooting, as Rhino said, you will probably have to do some type of add on for cqb type shooting.

[blackdragon]

40 round mags and a c-mag

Ivan

SCS Vegas

[davidwiz]

There are a couple of different reticles for the TA-11, from what I've seen, most people have the donut. Do a search on "TA-11" on this forum and you'll see. Full boat retail is around $1,200, and street price is around $800 - $950. I bought my TA-11 used on one of the firearm classified ad sites for around $550. http://www.riflescopes.com might have them in stock.

With the JP aluminum bolt carrier, JP says that you must use their hammer and buffer setup - that it won't work with a stock setup. In lieu of the lightweight carrier, JP makes a nifty stainless steel bolt carrier.

Bbl fluting isn't going to make much of a difference. Just makes the bbl look pretty. Consider getting a handguard that is vented.

[Bear1142]

Dirtypool40,

Dump the JP Aluminum carrier, they are more trouble than they are worth. Stay with the standard Mil-Spec carrier/bolt. I like the new hard chromed ones, but only because they seem to clean up easier. No real other benefit, except some extra corrosion protection. Your compensator will soak up most of the recoil. If you just have to have a softer recoiling rifle, then put a heavier buffer/spring and use an adjustable gas block to cut down on your gas flow. (Be warned, these may cause other problems and issues). Rather than having the barrel cut down (unless you get it done for free), I would just purchase a good 18" barrel to start. It might cost you a little more, but with the current SPR craze, 18" barrels are very popular and most manufacturers are starting to offer them. A good barrel is the heart of the AR, don't compromise, get a good one. You won't be disappointed. While fluting your barrel has some benefit, it's mostly done to reduce weight. On an 18" barrel, it really depends what type of contour you have under the handguards, as to whether or not you should flute the barrel. The TA-11 is a good all around scope (the perfect scope has been designed, but not manufactured yet ). Your only real choices for reticles are the donut (TA-11) or the Chevron (TA-11F) and it depends what you priorities are. With the proper techniques, the donut works better from around 150 and in, while the chevron works better from 150 and out. Either one is a good choice. I would also start building a spare parts kit. I would definitely have a spare bolt, cam pin, extractor, firing pin retaining pin, and some choice springs. With regards to the bolt. Order two at the same time. Use one for about 500 rounds, make sure it works then pack it away as your spare. Put in the second one and use that for your primary bolt. When the day comes to replace your bolt (and it will) you will know for sure you spare works. Find 4 good magazines that run and then replace the springs with ISMI 30 rd. mag springs. This will eliminate 95% of your magazine problems. If you have any mag. problems after this, its probably because the mag body is out of spec or the lips are cracked or the ammo is bad. I'm just finishing the third season on the same magazines with no mag. related malfunctions.

I've ranted long enough. If you have any other questions, let us know.

Erik

[dirtypool40]

wow, thanks guys. The Bushy V-match already has a free floated barrel. The smith is putting the Cooley comp on it and will cut it for no more than threading for the comp cost.

The Length and fluting I am doing for weight. As to mags I have 20 GI mil spec, 20 brand new thermolds and 2 40 rounders of dubious origin. I am going to send those to the smith for tuning and plating. I figure good springs and a green follower should help, then coat them in "Black T" or NP3 when I get the gun done.

Keep the help coming....

[chp5]

The smith is putting the Cooley comp on it and will cut it for no more than threading for the comp cost.

DP - will the smith need to open up the gas ports since he is cutting the barrel? I'm thinking of having my 20" BM government barrel cut down to 18" as well.

[uscbigdawg]

chp5,

No. The adjustable gas block fixes all those problems.

As for the TA-11, consider JP's scope. Mostly 'cause it's available. After that the Trijicon Accu-points are pretty sweet.

Lastly, while the McCormick is an easy drop in, I haven't found it to be better than my trusty JP trigger kit. Too, JP is a HUGE match sponsor.

Whoops. Forgot. The JP-SRTS is the heat for close in work (that is until you get comfortable using the ACOG/Accupoint at close range).

Rich

[dirtypool40]

Good point, I do like the long flat trigger though. I am going to leave it up to the 'smith. He has and has worked with the JP and likes it.

I wish more folks would consider sponsorship when they spend money.

[Les Snyder]

you might want to consider a Falcon "Ergo" grip to position your trigger finger a little better, and a shorter A1 VN era stock with rounded rubber butt pad .... a good sling like the VTac or one of Blackhawk's Harris slings for tactical matches where you transition and retain the rifle..

[Paule]

The TA11B is a good choice for 3-Gun. The red triangle is as easy to pick up as the donut and you still have a precise aiming point when you want one. Also, you get a nice horizon line that helps keep the gun oriented on longer shots. No BDC/stadia lines but for 3-gun it works great. Zero at 250-300 yds and most shots require no adjustment (out to 350 or so).

[tewlman]

i have used the JP low mass bolt carrier for over a year with no problems, you might need the buffer spring kit which consists of a carbine length buffer, an extra power spring and a nylon spacer that goes in the buffer tube to reduce the recoil stroke. You can tell a huge difference between shooting low mass and steel.

make sure you free float the barrel.

you don't need any other sighting devices if you use the ta11 w/donut reticle, just put a cover over the end and shoot occluded on all close range stuff.

get and arredondo mag funnel, they are awesome.

if you have the extra bucks, don't bother cutting down your barrel. Just get an 18" ultra light JP barrel, with the BC comp already installed.

[rhino]

you don't need any other sighting devices if you use the ta11 w/donut reticle, just put a cover over the end and shoot occluded on all close range stuff.

I've heard of people doing this, but I'm not sure how it actually "works."

What exactly are you occluding, and how does it help you engage close targets with a fixed magnification scope?

[Zak Smith]

The view through the optic is occluded, so there is no magnification.

Same as using an Aimpoint with the front lens cap on.

-z

[George]

I've heard of people doing this, but I'm not sure how it actually "works."

What exactly are you occluding, and how does it help you engage close targets with a fixed magnification scope?

The occluded eye technique is very fast once you get used to it. I ran a 3.5-10x on an AR for a few years and used it sucessfully, but still prefer a secondary dot, or handguard irons for hosing.

If you cover the front of a scope that has an illuminated reticle, or use a somewhat translucent cover on a scope with a standard reticle, one eye sees the target, the other eye sees the reticle only and the brain superimposes them without any magnification skewing your perception.

There will be a POI offset of several inches, typically down slightly and towards the scope eye. I am a rightie and I had to hold just off the top left corner of an upper A/B to get a centered A.

It works OK, but I still prefer an Optima type sight right on the handgaurd for the reduction of POI to POA offset (virtually none) and the ability to see the target and my surroundings with both eyes.

--

Regards,

Edited August 31, 2004 by George

[rhino]

George ... thanks for the explanation. At least I understand what people are talking about now.

[tewlman]

it offers the ability to shoot both near and far targets without adjusting the grip of your weapon, or moving your head. you just cover optic for close range or open for farther out targets.

i can shoot as far out as 40 yards and be dead on zero with both sighting styles, but i think this is not the case for all shooters. You should give it a try before you pass any judgement, some love it some don't. it does take a little getting used to.

[rhino]

I may try it if I ever get stuck with an optic where it's necessary. Since I run my Leupold at 1-2X most of the time, it's not an issue.

[kellyn]

The mythical occluded ACOG, so succesfully used by David Neth and Matt Burkett is (for me) a MYTH!!!!! My POI is so far off (over a foot at 15 yards) that I cannot use this technique. But that's me, some are very successful with it. I'm jealous.

[kurtm]

I can't get it to work either! The prisim erector in the ACOGS, will always throw the POI off, at least for me. I'm much better off looking through the optic. KURTM

[rhino]

Is there any chance that the people who think they're doing it are really point shooting and doing a good job of it without realizing it?

[Wakal]

No...you can really see the glowing chevron (or doughnut) "floating" over the target, without looking all the way through the scope. At least, when I tried it, actual results may vary, not for the other use, keep out of children

However, I'm still pretty firmly in the "scope on top, hoser sights on the handguard" crowd.

Alex

[Paule]

Shooting an ACOG this way requires practice, and does not work for some people. An opthamologist could likely explain why, but it is not for all. I have also found that it doe not work well with the TA01/TA31 4x scopes, or any of the mini ACOGs that have short eye relief. The TA11 is the ACOG of choice for this use. I like mounting the ACOG as far forward as possible on the flattop and as low as the M16 blade mount will allow. Then the natural, heads up mount that shooters tend to develop for short targets puts the reticle "on top" of the occluded picture. Getting down hard on the stock lets the full field of view appear and the magnification kicks in.

If this works for your eyes, you do actually see the lit reticle floating on the target, just like other occluded sights. Another sight that works well for this, and is easier to "see", is the Trijicon TR21R. I'm currently waiting on a Nightforce 1-4x with a circle-dot reticle. It may have promise, and the glass is superb.

[NukeMech]

I have always had eye dominancy issues and could never shoot with both eyes open. Since I have been using my EOTECH and shooting with both eyes open it has helped me apply this to all sighting systems and now I can shoot a rifle scope with both eyes open and no magnification. The first couple of times you look through a scope that way it is very weird and almost made me nocuous. To the point, practice with using both eyes will help this style of shooting.