Move faster without shooting faster

[bthoefer]

I am trying to speed up my movement from position to position but I am struggling to move fast but shoot slow (smoothly really). When I focus on moving fast It feels like I try and shoot too fast also, and start dropping D and M's. When I focus on shooting smoothly and taking my time shooting I slow down my movement too much.

How do you separate moving fast and shooting smoothly?

Thanks

[Nuke531]

Just my 2 cents of knowledge from what I have picked up since I started this sport. This is how I see a stage, if I pick a position to shoot then move to next position I move as fast, as safely possible. Gun up high and engage as soon as possible, if I plan on shooting on the move I move slower to give myself more stability and not to overrun the targets. There are many factors that need to be considered, how well the footing is, can you stop on a dime or are you going to end up on you butt. What class you’re shooting in, running my limited gun with 21 rounds is completely different then running my single stack with only 8 rounds.

I started practicing with air-soft and learned a lot. I reduced my draw times to 1.05 and if you have a large enough area you can use it with movement drills. I watch a lot of vids of the GM’s I notice there splits are not much farther off then mine but they move so darn fast and they don’t waist time or hesitate to fire. I have learned a great deal of information from other shooters at matches; I put all that info into my tool box and use it.

Sorry if this seems like I am rambling on its 0230 in the morning and I’m working 12 hour shifts and this is my 6 day in a row.

[AlexOsensei]

I think U have to practice.. Move fast it' s ok.. but if u lost points..u have to shift back..

maybe u r going in ur NON confort zone.. and this is ok in pratice but after u have to make a step back and shot fine.

Going forward and back U'll push ur limit ... and u'll improve.

[Caffeinated]

This is something I have struggled with for a while.

Some observations I've found:

Never take the shot if you don't see your sights.

Splits don't win matches.

Be ready to shoot as soon as you come into a position.

Look for a stage breakdown that will allow you to engage targets as you enter and leave positions.

I shoot Single Stack and I've found that I need to really focus on getting my reload finished and then move quickly to my next position. My reloads seem to dictate how fast I move from one position to another.

Work on accuracy and the speed will come.

Good luck!

[carlosa]

What you are experiencing is a mental issue..

You are shifting your focus from aiming to moving..

So your shooting suffers..

It is natural to think you need to slow down when the points are lacking.

But nothing could be further from the truth..

What you need, is to build the habit of paying attention to every shot..

So avoid the "shoot as fast as you can hit" mentality.

Embrace the move as fast as you possibly can, and pay attention to every single shot..

If your paying attention to the shot you're taking, you're not likely to brake the shot until you see it in front of you

And if you brake it before, you'll know imidiatly that you need to make it up

It's not easy but shifting your focus to making the shot is in my opinion the key to the whole thing..

Almost like telling your self "MOVE, MOVE, MOVE, ease onto the target, see the shot, break the shot, MOVE!!

I hope this is somewhat useful

Cheers,

Los

[AlexOsensei]

Yes, I am reading and I can only say ,yes bros , u r right.

I am watching how to begin to move before the last shot of the string , and to shot before stop the feet before the string begin..

[bthoefer]

A little more context, I shoot production and feel like my reloads are good, smooth and fast. I have been focusing on my reload being finished within one step and can do it consistently. The new mag is usually seated before the fresh mag hits the ground. That way I feel like I can focus on moving rather than trying to focus on reloading on the move.

I feel like I am having trouble mentally separating shooting and moving. It seems like my focus on moving fast is bleeding over into my shooting and shooting smoothly is bleeding into moving.

I guess my real question is how do you separate your focus on shooting and your focus on moving?

Thank you for the advice so far.

[Flexmoney]

You only get so much fast, why not focus on being efficient, instead?

[bthoefer]

Flex,

I am working on efficiency, shooting into and out of positions etc. I tend to do better on tight technical courses which require your movements to be precise ( so you don't over run a position for example) than on more open courses where I loose time on longer transitions between shooting positions.

I'm trying to improve my speed on more open courses while continuing to work on efficiency.

I know what you mean about only having so much speed.

Carlosa has it right I think, my focus is not switching back and forth from moving to shooting. It is definatly mental.

[Flexmoney]

Just remember, the timer doesn't record "moving fast", it records shots.

- I *always* want to get out of the start position while I am drawing.

- There will be a last position that I fire the final shot of the stage from. I want to *always* be getting to that spot. After all, that is what stops the timer.

- I want to minimize my stops along the way.

- When I do stop, I want the setup to be as soft as possible.

- I want to roll through stops if I can, allowing me to keep my mass in motion.

- That often means coming in low, staying low, and leaving low. (Watch Vogel or Sevigny...who get around a stage as well as anybody)

[CHA-LEE]

Stop thinking about doing anything "Fast". Replace "Fast" with "Sooner". If you always strive to do things as "Soon" as possible you will quickly eliminate inefficiencies. Moving quickly between shooting positions plays right into that same methodology of doing things as soon as possible. Are you actually RUNNING between shooting positions or just putting in a half assed jog? I like to think of movement as three sections. Acceleration, Maintaining foot speed, and deceleration into a shooting position. For me, if I focus on Accelerating hard that greatly improves my movement aggressiveness. Once I am accelerated I just let the foot speed maintain and allow the deceleration to happen at a natural pace.

Your foot placement and how much you are crouched greatly affect your ability to accelerate out of a shooting position as aggressively as possible. Work on your foot work and crouch depth so you can efficiently and aggressively launch out of shooting positions with one hard push of your trailing leg. Shuffle steps and or leaning sideways at the waist in a shooting position will greatly impact your ability to leave a shooting position aggressively.

[sti38super]

SMOOOOOTH is FAST

Shoot A's

Make NO mistakes.

[eric nielsen]

Post #10 is golden. Smitty mentioned 2-3 years ago that what was helping him excel in matches was coming in low & staying low.

Maybe this only applies to tall long-armed people but I'm finding now (shooting 2x a week at least after a long absence) that the more I shoot really low - imagine a low window that tops out 18" below your standing line-of-sight - the more I can put my gun right where I want it & have it stay there as I shoot. It speeds up entering AND leaving. It speeds up transitions target-to-target. For me, maybe not for everyone. It takes consistent practice, doesn't come natural esp. home dry-firing.

Another thing I worked out is that on any array esp. the 1st array in a stage, you can set up to put your NPA on the 1st/entering target, or you can set up your NPA on the last/leaving target. I'm finding that setting up your NPA on the last/leaving target is better for almost all situations. Pay attention when you set up your feet for leaning/barricade/foot-faulted positions - where does your body (NPA) settle if you shut your eyes and relax? I find that fixing where the trailing foot points can shift everything around from way-off to right-on regarding natural point of aim.

See if maybe you do speed shoots like El Prez better if you set NPA on the last target and reload right back to that last target and transition back the other way. The time saved getting on target after the reload is greater than the time lost by not shooting L-R, L-R. And so on. Get yourself behind the gun in practice & in stage planning then watch your movement and shooting both improve. My 2c.

Edited October 11, 2012 by eric nielsen

[Sac Law Man]

One thing that has helped me move faster, is really getting in position to shoot quicker. The key for me is being aware... The best analogy I can give is a running back like Barry Sanders,, When he used to get a handoff and was running through the line, with all the blocking and movement going on, he could still process the whole picture and find the holes to run through, almost like he can see things in slow motion. The opposite would be putting your head down and running straight.

How does this compare to action pistol? As your moving to a position, look, and allow your mind to absorb whats in front of you, and when you look for the target, see it clearly. I think the lack of focus really costs time. Shooters wait until they are in position to gain this focus, but this is when they should be squeezing the trigger.

I practice this alot at home during dry practice.

Edited October 12, 2012 by Sac Law Man

[h4444]

You only get so much fast, why not focus on being efficient, instead?

Ding Ding Ding....And then move fast and shoot as fast as you can see the front sight. It really is about seeing that sight and re-programming your trigger finger to squeeze the instant an acceptable sight picture is available so that you're shooting instead of thinking.

I'm about the size of an NFL lineman, THE ONLY way I can come anywhere close to being competitive with the swift footed GM's at my local matches is to be absolutely efficient as possible.

I have to be efficient, moving fast,,,,and shooting on the move when it makes sense as fast as I can see my front sight, or perfecting my technique for setting up into shooting positions quickly and some of that means accepting a little movement as I'm coming into a position when I start shooting.

Byron

[h4444]

If my buddy gets the video's posted on youtube later I'll post my runs from last night's match. Two of the stages should be decent examples of this. I managed to win both stages and I really think that one was because I took a bit more efficient line through one portion of the stage accepting shots that were about 2 yards farther in some cases and shooting on the move as fast as I could see my front sight.

The only reason I won the other stage was our local GM was about 1 second faster than me, but threw a Mike. But, there is another efficiency lesson to learn from that stage and I'll talk about that later.

Don't ask about the other stage,,,,,that was a cluster. I blew the most basic part of that stage, the grip. It was an unloaded start and I got a crappy grip at the start and never recovered. I didn't move well, it felt like my setup/body positioning was bad, and the sights bounced all over the place. That run was generally a train wreck from an execution standpoint.

The best way to learn is exactly what you're doing, ask people. The weekly matches I shoot as really informal. There are a lot of newer shooters and I don't mind a bit if someone asks to share/help them learn.

You're doing the right thing in asking these questions, and there are some great resources to help.

Do you have your runs video taped??

If not and you have access to a camera/or a smart phone with video capability, I would encourage you to record your runs. NOTHING helps you spot weaknesses in your game faster than video and an open mind. :-) I don't get to the range very much, but video and dry fire have helped me come farther faster in the few months I've been back in the game than I did in the years before. I watch myself shoot and KNOW instantly what I need to work on. And if I have doubts on what that is I ask for friends to give advice/feedback.

I'm not a GM, but I was pretty happy with the two stages I won last night....

[carlosa]

One thing that has helped me move faster, is really getting in position to shoot quicker. The key for me is being aware... The best analogy I can give is a running back like Barry Sanders,, When he used to get a handoff and was running through the line, with all the blocking and movement going on, he could still process the whole picture and find the holes to run through, almost like he can see things in slow motion. The opposite would be putting your head down and running straight.

How does this compare to action pistol? As your moving to a position, look, and allow your mind to absorb whats in front of you, and when you look for the target, see it clearly. I think the lack of focus really costs time. Shooters wait until they are in position to gain this focus, but this is when they should be squeezing the trigger.

I practice this alot at home during dry practice.

This is good, I know my speed an efficiency improve a ton, when I stopped thinking about moving fast and stated focusing on finding the next alpha fast.

My buddy Dennis (rip) gave me that advise.. Simple yet efficient.. Find the next alpha

[h4444]

Here's the video from last night.

Stage 1.

Many people were running straight ahead to the array of single targets in the middle, then working across. This added distance to travel and due to the targets being in the little allies, it limited your field of view considerably. Also, many that went that far forward got hung up in the last ally and had to step back to clear it. If you notice, I nearly fall into that trap on the last ally. By taking a straight diagonal line across I cut down the distance I had to travel and since I could see the targets better, I could transition a bit smoother. Then on the targets in the back of the bay, I started shooting those as soon as I saw them and was still moving, they were wide open targets after you made your way around the corner. Again, my foot speed isn't going to win a race with much of anyone, but after engaging T1 (the deep target) I tried to be sending rounds downrange as soon and as continuously as possible.

Stage 2.

Trainwreck, bad grip, poor entrance into the first shooting position as I was attempting to improve my grip,,,,it just never got better. I had the right plan, just failed miserably in execution.

Stage 3.

There was a target exposed immediately in front of the start box. There was a temptation to draw to that target before moving left/right. The problem there is that is a stationary shot and gets me no closer to the end of the stage, by standing still, I would be wasting time. So, the thought was, move to the left as fast as a fat guy with a bum wheel could go then start burning through the targets. The first array allowed me to get 8 rounds off, then there were 2 targets in the middle I could shoot on the move. Once I got the second of those on the move, I was positioned to take out the last two targets. The gaps between the barrels on the two targets shot while moving in the middle were barely wider than the A zone, so the key was not outrunning your trigger finger.

Anyway, I'm no GM, but the first and the last stage are the kinds of runs I've been working on shooting over the last couple months since I started my comeback. I hope there is something in there of use to someone...

If anyone sees anything I can do better, I'm all ears,,,,,with the exception of "move faster". I'm working on that already.

[CocoBolo]

Rather interesting. I just shot the Missouri Fall Classic. On Friday after I walked the stages, the whole match was almost all short precision positioning movements. My son-in-law and daughter shot with me, both not that expierenced. You know you make a plan you show them but they shoot it their way. The short of it was I explainded that the movement in the match had to be right to be fast, and I mean exact just being off a few inches would cost lots of time.

Stage break down is huge. As an example I shot the stage from exactly 3 positions never went to either end. Every shooter in the squad took at least 5 they were all anywhere from 6 to 20 seconds slower. True speed comes from efficient movement and finite positioning. Finding that one position that lets you get all the targets in two arrarys without moving or all in one with no movement (excluding those that can be shot moving). Start doing your walk thru exactly like you are going to shoot it, that right quit droping you darn virtual gun on the walk thru (you shoot like you walk thru). Take care to establish an exact postion with markers you can guide on. Little things help and save time, like when you come to the end of a wall know exactly the height for your gun, yes there is a screw you guide on it. A break in the fault line is your spot that you can get that one target that can only be shot from there.

I took Straighters class he thought I didn't listen well I did. Here this it isn't how fast you get there it is how fast you get there ready to shoot. One drill we did in class was with two boxes, we ran the two box stage several times running between the boxes and walking between the boxes. Well you guessed right, walking was faster everytime.

Here is what he taught me about entering a box, 2 steps out look deep into the box, that is where your foot will go, get your head up, your gun up and sights on target, most times my gun goes off before the second foot touches the ground.

Much can be leaned by watching other shooters, even the ones that don't do well, you will see thier mistakes, learn from them, then the good fast guys watch them but pay attention to the small details.

Now for a Coco original, any time you are rushing you are screwing up. This applies to movment as well as shooting. Never force a shot, and don't go thru a stage like a charging Rhino. When you rush it takes you longer to get into a good foundation (stance/position) to shoot, and your hits will also suffer. Just my 02.

Edited October 13, 2012 by CocoBolo

[Leftylivesmatter]

Three things I have been working on to become more effcient (you may call faster) are:

-Shooting on the move whenever possible

-Having a site picture while getting into shooting position (not after getting there).

-Transition quicker from target to next target (leed with eyes, sights follow)

I was also focused on splits, but have realized it has very little to do with better rankings.

[steel1212]

-Transition quicker from target to next target (leed with eyes, sights follow)

I was also focused on splits, but have realized it has very little to do with better rankings.

Splits for show, Transitions for dough!

[Micah]

Splits for show, Transitions for dough!

I really like that Corey!

One thing I always tell people is "Two things at once".

If you are not multitasking, you are losing.

[benos]

Stop thinking about doing anything "Fast". Replace "Fast" with "Sooner". If you always strive to do things as "Soon" as possible you will quickly eliminate inefficiencies.

I like that.

Move when you move; shoot when you shoot.

Shooting efficently requires firing each shot at the "earliest opportunity." Meaning, there should not be a delay between the time the shot, if fired, would have hit the A box, and the time you actually fired the shot.

Moving efficently requires, most importantly, that your body is already in leaving/leaning/in motion at the time you called the last shot (from a position) an Alpha. And also that the sights are aligned on the target as your last foot is entering the shooting position.

be

[DaBeast]

It boils down to the basic principles and fundamentals.

"smooth is fast" and only fire the shot once the sight is aligned and clear and you can start to call your shot.

You mentioned "speed up my movement" speed can kill..... not saying speed is a bad thing, as long as you can apply it smoothly where you can shoot accurately.

Some stages I shoot I feel like I am in slow motion tracking my sight, calling my shots, and smoothly going through the course staying relaxed the whole time. After the stage, which felt slow my times are great as well as my hits. Good enough to take 1st place!

Where speed kills is when you simply move/speed and shoot faster than your ability to shoot accurate.

Don't worry about speed so much sometime you have to slow down to your ability to accurately shoot were you can call your shots and make accurate hits, the speed will develop as you progress.

[Steve Anderson]

Splits are for show, transitions for dough!

Love that one.

I see the same stuff in movement issues all the time.

1. Gun too low

Get that thing up where you see it in your peripheral vision. KNOW where it is. When I train hard in production, I'll go so far as to be aware of the front sight coming down into the rear from the "gun up" running mode as I enter a new position.

2. Coming in too hot

I use the term deceleration. You don't want to slam on the brakes. Rather, it's better to decrease the size of the steps as you gently apply the brakes into a new position. As this is happening, the gun comes into vision with an acceptable sight picture.All you have to do now is shoot when the sight picture is acceptable.

3. Hard landings

I see a lot of guys plant hard on the inside foot after their initial step into a new position. This will either disrupt the sight picture if they're lucky enough to have one, or worse, they'll wait for the shock to be over before even trying to start a sight picture. To combat this, get used to shooting on one foot as you enter a new area or position. This is easily practiced in dry fire. The individual technique isnt as important as the result. Shooting sooner.

4. Flatfoot exits.

Ideally, we'd always be leaving AS we fire the last shot or shots of an array. To practice this in dry fire, set up two targets with a 4-5 yard run between them. Pick the inside foot up as you fire the first shots, then make sure you fire the first shot of T2 on one foot AS you enter the new area. This will show you everything that needs fixed.

Good luck,

SA