speed of eye focus

[cpa5oh]

My eye focus isn't as fast as my ability to physically move a gun right now. I'm training with an instructor and he's saying stuff to me like "it doesn't take you any longer to see what you need to see"...and it's kinda frustrating because for me to "see what I need to see" I HAVE TO slow down.

For example, on my draw I work to get the gun to eye level diagonally from my holster and then have about a six inch extension to the target. I'm being told that during that six inch extension I should be "cleaning up" my sight picture so that at full extension I've got adequate sight picture. I'm being told that from the holster to eye level should be the same speed no matter the difficulty of the target, and it's the extension/cleaning up where I'd slow down to get a better sight picture on a difficult target. The problem for me is that if I get that gun up to eye level as fast as I possibly can, my eyes can't focus on the front sight fast enough to see the front sight before I'm fully extended (let alone early enough to do any clean up during the extension.) And it's kinda the same thing with my transitions - I can physically move the gun fast, but when it gets there, if I'm going to confirm sight picture/clean it up as necessary, there's a hesitation as my eyes go from the target I've swung to back to the front sight.

Have you better shooters experienced this (i.e., is this natural for a newer shooter?) Did you do anything specific to improve your ability to have your eyes focus from target to front sight, or did it just naturally improve through dry/live fire practice? If you've experienced significant improvement through practice, was it fleeting (and did it require a ton of dry/live fire practice in order to keep it "in tune?")

I don't want to be the guy that just runs a course hosing and hoping that the index of my body puts shots on target...if there is improvement to be had in my speed of eye focus-ability (crappy wording,) I don't want to stunt my progress by taking a shortcut (shooting faster than I can see and maybe never developing the ability to see quickly.)

Thanks!

[Reshoot]

My eye focus isn't as fast as my ability to physically move a gun right now. I'm training with an instructor and he's saying stuff to me like "it doesn't take you any longer to see what you need to see"...and it's kinda frustrating because for me to "see what I need to see" I HAVE TO slow down.

For example, on my draw I work to get the gun to eye level diagonally from my holster and then have about a six inch extension to the target. I'm being told that during that six inch extension I should be "cleaning up" my sight picture so that at full extension I've got adequate sight picture. I'm being told that from the holster to eye level should be the same speed no matter the difficulty of the target, and it's the extension/cleaning up where I'd slow down to get a better sight picture on a difficult target. The problem for me is that if I get that gun up to eye level as fast as I possibly can, my eyes can't focus on the front sight fast enough to see the front sight before I'm fully extended (let alone early enough to do any clean up during the extension.) And it's kinda the same thing with my transitions - I can physically move the gun fast, but when it gets there, if I'm going to confirm sight picture/clean it up as necessary, there's a hesitation as my eyes go from the target I've swung to back to the front sight.

Have you better shooters experienced this (i.e., is this natural for a newer shooter?) Did you do anything specific to improve your ability to have your eyes focus from target to front sight, or did it just naturally improve through dry/live fire practice? If you've experienced significant improvement through practice, was it fleeting (and did it require a ton of dry/live fire practice in order to keep it "in tune?")

I don't want to be the guy that just runs a course hosing and hoping that the index of my body puts shots on target...if there is improvement to be had in my speed of eye focus-ability (crappy wording,) I don't want to stunt my progress by taking a shortcut (shooting faster than I can see and maybe never developing the ability to see quickly.)

Thanks!

You do not list your age, but the issue you are talking about is a naturally occurring one. The older you get, the more pronounced this focus issue will become. I have worn glasses since the 6th grade so, I suppose it hit me earlier than some people.

I read an excellent article on this subject a year, or so, ago. Problem is, I can not remember if that article was on this forum or not. ANOTHER thing that becomes an issue with age! Anyhow . . . when you are young your eyes can change focus from, for example, the rear sight to the front sight, so quickly that both sights appear in focus. According to the article, everyone will loose this ability in time.

I had a pair of shooting glasses made, some time back, that gave me a crisp, clear view of the sights. Now, the metric targets have become fuzzy. Doc says he is pretty much out of options. So, I am in the process of building an open gun as I have a pretty good picture of the red dot and the targets.

If I recall where that article is, I'll post it.

[grapemeister]

Lots and lots of practice. Every once in a while when I feel like I'm losing the ability to focus on the front sight (or just plain getting lazy), I shoot directly into the berm, with no target. I do it at least once a month just to remind myself of how crystal clear the front sight is suppose to be. I shoot ten to twenty rounds straight into the berm, and then go through another ten to twenty rounds transitioning from one end of the berm to the other. Try it, it's amazing how crystal clear the front sight is when you're not aiming at a specific target.

[mlmiller1]

I have this issue, too. Let me help you with your initial focus problem here with a solution a friend gave me a few years back. I do not look at the first target just before the buzzer & my draw. R.O. says "are you ready"? I am looking at the ground about halfway between me & the first target. IOW, I've already drawn my focus back about halfway to the gun. I know where the target is, I'm indexed on it, I know what shape target it is, so there is no need for me to be staring at it when the buzzer goes off & the gun comes up. So now you hear "standby" & beep, gun comes up, head comes up, eyes are on the sights. No waiting for the focus to come back all the way from the target so I'm ready to focus on sights. It works for me. Give it a try.

Next, when I'm practicing transitions, I do some half speed work. Fire at one target, pin the trigger, swing my head to the next target, eyes stop on target, then I allow the gun to follow my eyes & the focus comes back to sights. After a bunch of slow head to the next target first runs, I start speeding up. When it gets to where I can't focus on sights or see what I need to see, I'm going fast enough. I've built it up to pretty fast actually so I'm happy with what is happening. Even older eyes can be trained & the muscles built up some.

MLM

[leemoe83]

Similar to what the previous poster said, try to bring your visual focus back earlier to the imaginery spot where your sights will enter before the gun gets there, not way before, but just enough before it gets there. So, if your drawing on a target at 10 yards, hold a target focus untill you feel your hands get above the belly and then start bringing you visual focus back to where the sights will be before the sights get there.

On transitions, the amount of visual focus on the target needed for a transition will vary greatly with distance, target size, and how far you need to transition. But the concept is the same as the draw, target focus and then bring the focus back before the sights get there.

[dab]

Does anyone know if any drills that can help with this that don't use a gun? I'm having the same issue, and would like to work on that focus shift at times throughout the day, like during commercials, then put it together during dry fire.

[redmanfixit]

There is a simple visual training technique that helps with "weak accommodation". It's called pencil pushups. A thumbnail works just as well but it's an old name that's been in the trade forever. Hold a pencil in your hand (or look at your thumbnail) at arms length. Move your hand toward your nose till you are unable to maintain sharp focus on the image. Move your hand away from your nose back to arms length. Repeat this often. As the muscles that shape the crystalline lens (the variable power lens in your eye) become stronger, your time lag on focus will decrease. Just like any other muscle conditioning, it's about reps and sets. You can also work on tracking by doing range of motion exercises. Essentially, holding your head still. perhaps pointing your nose at some point on the wall, move your eyes left, right, up and down as far as it's possible to do so. Roll them around smoothly at the extreme, clockwise and counterclockwise. Cross them and try to look at your forehead and then at your upper lip. Repeat these movements while trying to make the movements as smooth as you are able to. Yes, you're going to look really goofy when you do these. You may want to sit down when you first try these as some people get dizzy.

As you age the lens in the eye increases in density. You may find somewhat of a lag becoming apparent as you try to return to distant objects (beyond 20 ft is infinity for the human eye, more or less). Shouldn't matter too much as you really don't need the target to be sharp, just the sights.

If you've figured out how to use the search function on this forum, you might want to check other posts I've made in the past about visual processing in the shooting sports. Color of sights, checking the optics in your eye protection. Lots of stuff on physical optics and photopic vision curve. As mentioned above, you didn't mention your age, beyond 45 years old, a well fitted set of progressive power multifocal lenses may be just the thing, but the exercises will still be of benefit

Shoot well!.

[dab]

Thanks for the drill!

[DRichardson]

That drill works well. I was told to do this as a child by a Optomitrist and it really helped some of my vision issues. All was fine till recently ( last year or so). I just started idpa, uspsa, and action pistol last march so all this is relatively new but I got to the point where I felt my vision was starting to slow me down some as my eyes were lazy on focusing. I went to the optometrist and found that my eyes have degraded further and although the doctor siad the drills would help, he felt that to really make a difference glasses would be best. Wow what a difference. During my last match middle of first stage I had to remind myself to push harder because even though I was shooting about as good as I had in the past I didn't feel like my eyes were holding me back. I had the best finish I have had yet by a huge margin. Please keep in mind I am still very new at this but a trip to the eye doctor may be in order. What you perceive as a "focus" issue may be something else.

[Sin-ster]

I've experienced this under "special" circumstances in just daily life, though my preparation for shooting has (thus far) prevented it from happening in a match or even a practice session.

If I'm especially tired, I notice that I don't pull focus as quickly as I should. The same can be said for being sick/hungover all day and lounging around the house; when I go outside finally, it's more of the same. Watching TV in a dimly lit or completely dark room produces the same effect, as did playing hours upon hours of high focus intensity (i.e. shooter) video games back in the day.

What that really means is that focus and the eyes are complicated things, and I have no trouble believing that some folks will naturally suffer more from slow eyes than others. Stick with it, and run some of the exercises talked about here and in books like Matt Burkett's, Saul Kirsch's, etc. You could probably Google the subject and find a TON of helpful information and drills.

[Flexmoney]

DESIRE to see what you need to see. The trick for many...is the part where you figure out what you really need to see.

[redmanfixit]

Pay attention to blood sugar and hydration when you're fatigued. Eat real food and stay away from energy drinks or soda. Those mess with your Blood Sugar terribly and will make you inconsistent. Visual processing uses a disproportionate energy commitment. These simple things make you more able to sustain the desire to see what you need to..

[Nimitz]

The vision training chapter of Mike Seeklander's competition handgun training book covers these drills in detail ...

[kevin c]

Flex's post addresses an important point - WHAT you need to see to make the shot varies with each shot, and much, if not most, of the time the razor sharp focus on the FS that is perfectly centered in the rear notch exactly in the middle of the A zone isn't what you need to see. We all learn through time and experience what is enough.

Now, if you ARE having age related focussing issues, some of the posts above describe exercises that may help, but once the lens of your eye stiffens, extra muscle power in the eye may not be enough to overcome it. For some, altering the RX of your shooting glasses may help, using the technique called monovision.

There are a few posts here on the subject, but essentially, the correction in one eye is set at FS distance so that your focus in that eye is already there when the gun is mounted. The other eye is usually has the focus set for distance ("infinity"). Works best with both eyes open, but just using the shooting eye works too.

Be advised, this doesn't work for everybody - some get headaches and the like if the brain has trouble dealing with two different focusses.

[ricardo28]

Like has been stated, Dont look at different distances. The old saying of, Front sight focus and a blurry target. I never focus on target then pick up sights. i try to keep all targets semi blurry. I start looking close and never focus on a target, only the shape. I dont care where the perf is to hit A, i know they are in the middle. I always shoot with both eyes.

Edited August 29, 2012 by ricardo28

[redmanfixit]

Mono vision will work for some people, but finally that is a technique that provides you with 1/2 as much information as having both eyes able to focus in the same plane. A properly fitted pair of progressive add multifocal lenses will allow visual adaptations that are very much like the "natural" function of the "young" eye. The "software" for image processing that comes from the "factory" in a human being is remarkably adaptable. In the long run, it's the compatibility with the image adaptive characteristics of the human visual system, that makes one system better than another. Initially, the image that appears on the retina with a well designed progressive multifocal is "distorted". But because the eye is able to "learn" the image character after a time, it becomes very natural for a person to use small head position adjustments to access different focal lengths on the lens. It finally reduces to flexibility. Having been a Yoga teacher for 30 years and having practiced Yoga for 40 years, you might naturally imagine that I tend to reduce most difficulties to a failure of "flexibility" and an inability to adapt to dynamic conditions. I was in the optical trade for 20 years and fitted thousands of pairs of progressive multifocal lenses. Properly set up, they are the most flexible visual aid money can buy. They will provide a shooter with the greatest range of sharp vision and all the image information that proficiency in this sport requires. It's ALWAYS a question of balance.

[dbagwell]

I experienced that after coming back to the sport after a couple years. I was able to correct the focus issue in one brief dry fire session. I discovered that if I concentrated on the target first and moved my focus to the front sight as I reached my full extension that my sight picture was dialed in immediately...clearly focused on the front sight with a slightly blurry target. When I try to focus sights first, then target, it's hit and miss for me...seeing a double/blurry sight picture most of the time which requires extra time to straighten out.

[kevin c]

Mono vision will work for some people, but finally that is a technique that provides you with 1/2 as much information as having both eyes able to focus in the same plane. A properly fitted pair of progressive add multifocal lenses will allow visual adaptations that are very much like the "natural" function of the "young" eye. The "software" for image processing that comes from the "factory" in a human being is remarkably adaptable. In the long run, it's the compatibility with the image adaptive characteristics of the human visual system, that makes one system better than another. Initially, the image that appears on the retina with a well designed progressive multifocal is "distorted". But because the eye is able to "learn" the image character after a time, it becomes very natural for a person to use small head position adjustments to access different focal lengths on the lens. It finally reduces to flexibility. Having been a Yoga teacher for 30 years and having practiced Yoga for 40 years, you might naturally imagine that I tend to reduce most difficulties to a failure of "flexibility" and an inability to adapt to dynamic conditions. I was in the optical trade for 20 years and fitted thousands of pairs of progressive multifocal lenses. Properly set up, they are the most flexible visual aid money can buy. They will provide a shooter with the greatest range of sharp vision and all the image information that proficiency in this sport requires. It's ALWAYS a question of balance.

Are both eyes set at the same correction at the same position on the lens? How much of a shift in head position is needed to adjust,? I'd think there might be problems with some shooting positions (we have stage designers at my club who are not adverse to ground level ports on 25 yd targets).

[RaylanGivens]

I use progressive lenses as my daily wear glasses... They are perfect for normal daily use and fine for shooting at a single target at a standard shooting range... Started having trouble when I tried shooting Steel Challenge and USPSA... Couldn't get them into focus fast enough... Ended up with either very poor accuracy (because everything was blurry) or very slow times because I had to keep moving my head to get different things in focus.

I decided to try a mono vision lens setup... I am right eye dominant... My left lens has remained constant throughout multiple right lenses... My first set of mono vision lenses helped greatly, but it was still difficult to see the target in my right eye. The right lens had perfect focus on the sights, but was balanced too far to the rear... Got another right lens with less magnification and it helped... My Optician loaned me a few correction lenses to try out at home... No guns in his office... I decided on a magnification where the front sight is just in focus with the rear sight slightly blurred... This gives me clear vision on my front sight and the best view of the targets so far. I have used these lenses for several months now and like them very much!

A possible caveat that makes this system work for me is that I have had cataract surgery in both eyes... My distance vision is 20/20, but my near vision is very poor...

[carlosa]

I'm being told that during that six inch extension I should be "cleaning up" my sight picture so that at full extension I've got adequate sight picture.

I think this is terrible advice...

Look at the target, draw the gun, point it at the target, check your sights.

If the shot is there take it.

This idea of counsiously cleaning up the sight picture as your pushing out is ridiculous.

The key is to develop your index so that you can point the gun at anything and you sights will be atutomaticaly aligned.

Check out video's of the guys at the steel challenge..

You can mark the (small) pause right after they point the gun as they double check their sighs before braking the first shot.

[-Ace-]

Lots of good info in here, especially the "pencil pusher" drill!

[redmanfixit]

There is getting to be a dearth of really good Opticians. Thank places like lens crappers and other big chains. There are several different designs for progressive lenses that work more or less well. The best adaptive success I had was with Varilux. This is the lens I wear. There have been several iterations of that series that were introduced as technology advanced in computer driven optical manufacturing equipment. All progressives rely on the adaptability of the individual. There's the wild card. Before I EVER tried to fit a pair of these, I always tried to get a "feel" for the individual's tolerance level. For example, since I was in the trade, I had LOTS of pairs of spectacles. Although I quality checked ALL the eyewear I dispensed, of course I paid especially close attention to my own! There were always small differences between pairs. This translated into small differences in the detail shape of the image that was projected through them onto my retina. I noticed it. But I resolved to experiment with myself as this is the root of most of the complaints people have concerning new glasses! Assuming the prescription is correct. ( Yes.....Eye Docs screw up sometimes). Eventually I found that switching between one or another pair of clear lenses or sun lenses, even with old prescriptions only took a few minuets to "get used" to them. I found that people that had never worn corrective lenses had more trouble adapting to progressives than others. I ended up generally not trying to fit progressives on people that "had their hair on too tight". As you consider how to figure out what to do with your visual process, first find a really good Optician. Next, it's a good idea to search out an Optometrist that's a hunter or archer. Not so hard as you'd think, there are 2 in the town where I live. Usually with pre-arrangement, you CAN bring a gun into the office!!! Mono vision or progressive, there is an old fashioned way to test out the numbers the Doc comes up with using a trial lens set. If the Doc will work with you, he can come up with a lens combo that will work for nearly anyone! Locked in the refraction lane with him, waving a pistol around is no big deal.

Thing 1. The image that falls on the retina of the human eye is upside down. This is a characteristic of spherical lens systems.

Thing 2. the image is LOADED with spherical aberration. Again a property of simple lens systems.

Astonishingly, the human brain has the ability to correct for this set of circumstances. Altering the image shape that falls on the retina invokes this "corrective program" when you get a new pair of corrective lenses. Soon enough the brain straightens out the image processing so that lines are straight and walls aren't curved and you're not walking uphill all the time. You do in fact "get used to it". There is a path through all this to efficient visual performance. Consider your fundamental adaptability. (Best ask your friends, promise to hold no grudge if you don't like it when they tell the truth) You CAN train your visual system to greater adaptability by using old prescriptions and switching around among them. The exercises I suggested above will help LOTS of people. Some not so much. But there IS a path. It's only money!!

[redmanfixit]

This is where the "fitter" comes in, Mr. K. There are adjustments to the frame that correct for small differences in the fitting of the lenses but the initial fitting is where "the rubber meets the road" if you can forgive the use of that metaphor. To answer the questions directly, not too much head movement. The prescription is similar but as it turns out never exactly the same. I wrote about some of that elsewhere in this thread. Al l of this depends on the correct set up of the lens system in the frame and THAT must be selected to give adequate vertical room for the add (that's what we call the bi-focal) short narrow won't work. Doesn't protect too well from "splat" anyway, bigger is some better in this case.

Another factor comes in when people try to shoot wearing very dark lenses! Aperture effect! Pupil opens up to let in more light and apparent sharpness in the system goes down along with "depth of field". Small pupil = sharper vision. More light in this case is better for your shooting. Don't wear more than a 20% density lens to shoot in.

Hope some of this is helpful to everyone.

Mono vision will work for some people, but finally that is a technique that provides you with 1/2 as much information as having both eyes able to focus in the same plane. A properly fitted pair of progressive add multifocal lenses will allow visual adaptations that are very much like the "natural" function of the "young" eye. The "software" for image processing that comes from the "factory" in a human being is remarkably adaptable. In the long run, it's the compatibility with the image adaptive characteristics of the human visual system, that makes one system better than another. Initially, the image that appears on the retina with a well designed progressive multifocal is "distorted". But because the eye is able to "learn" the image character after a time, it becomes very natural for a person to use small head position adjustments to access different focal lengths on the lens. It finally reduces to flexibility. Having been a Yoga teacher for 30 years and having practiced Yoga for 40 years, you might naturally imagine that I tend to reduce most difficulties to a failure of "flexibility" and an inability to adapt to dynamic conditions. I was in the optical trade for 20 years and fitted thousands of pairs of progressive multifocal lenses. Properly set up, they are the most flexible visual aid money can buy. They will provide a shooter with the greatest range of sharp vision and all the image information that proficiency in this sport requires. It's ALWAYS a question of balance.

Are both eyes set at the same correction at the same position on the lens? How much of a shift in head position is needed to adjust,? I'd think there might be problems with some shooting positions (we have stage designers at my club who are not adverse to ground level ports on 25 yd targets).