45 ACP Loads

[Harley999]

I had collected a number of small primer 45 ACP casings, mostly Federal. I switched out my primer pick up process on the Dillon 550B and loaded the casings using the same toolhead setup as I had done on large primer 45 ACP casing. I use Winchester 231 at 4.8 grains with Winchester small and large primers, 200 grain plated round nose bullets.

Took the ammo to the range yesterday and had no problems with the large primer loads. The small primer casings failed to cycle the Glock 21 most of the time. I had taken only about 30 small primer 45 ACP ammo but am guessing that 90% failed to eject the spent casing. They fired fine as soon as I cleared the spent casing and chambered the next round.

I alternated between the two primered ammo and the large went fine but the small would stove pipe most of the time. I can't see that the primer should make a difference on powder load but am seeking other input as this is my first try at loading small primers into a 45 casing. Thanks

[retarmyaviator]

That's a new one on me. I load small primer 45 with the same load as I do for large primer and did not notice any difference in performance. I load 230 FMJ with 5.2 grs Bullseye. Test gun is a S&W 4506.

[John Wayne]

Those small primered cases are cursed. Sorry.

[dsmw5142]

I would double check that powder charge first thing. What scale are you using and what OAL are you loading at? Large pistol primers burn a tad hotter than SPP and may give you a tad more oomph. I would chrono your rounds with both primers and see what velocity you're getting.

4.8 is on the light side and below published manufacturer data for a jacketed bullet. I know plated bullet manufacturers recommend lead bullet data but, just my .02 cents, they are often somewhere in the middle or leaning toward jacketed.

Heck, even if you were using straight lead 200's you have plenty of wiggle room. Make sure you're seating to a safe OAL, but I think bumping to 5.0gr or a bit more will likely solve your problem.

[Boxer1]

I load them with the same specs as the large and have to say that they shoot the same from my experiance. I am only using middle of the road target loads however.

[Harley999]

Thanks for the replies. For both large and small primed ammo, I used a 1.238 OAL tapered to .4715 at station 4. I am using Brian's best electronic scale to weigh everything.

One of the things I do is case gauge and weigh each finished cartridge. The large primer ammo varied by manufacturer as you might expect but most came in around 292 grains, except for the 330 grain one that when I broke down had a 230 grain bullet sent wrong from the supplier. Since all the small primer casings were Federal, I got a fairly consistent 300 grain measure, not what I expected. I need to get a Federal large and small casing to weigh to check this out but it appears that a small primer casing is a bit beefier.

Again, thanks for the input and I probably will go to 5 grains in the future...

[Steve RA]

Try small rifle primers, they will probably ignite the powder a little better.

[usmc1974]

Try small rifle primers, they will probably ignite the powder a little better.

I use Federal small rifle primers for all my small primered guns but, mostly my 38 cal cowboy guns, pistols and rifle. because of the light springs/action jobs.

[roostershooter]

45 small primers are the bane of my existence. I run into them in every 1k batch I buy! There's nothing like rolling along at a good clip with Skynyrd in the background and have a 'hold up' because you ran into a small primer pocket!

On a serious note ....

I've loaded several small primer 45 acp in a pinch, and found that they load the same as the 45 large primer. There is probably a minute difference in pressure, but not enough to worry about.

[usmc1974]

45 small primers are the bane of my existence. I run into them in every 1k batch I buy! There's nothing like rolling along at a good clip with Skynyrd in the background and have a 'hold up' because you ran into a small primer pocket!

.

Sam Cook (in the back ground) but brother I hear ya. Leads to a Homer Simpson (D'OH) moment lol

[FLSlim]

I hate SP in 45 acp, but like others when I've used them there was no difference from LP. Bumping up your charge weight is a good idea. BTW, why are you bothering to weight a loaded cartridge; there is so much variability, it weight differences tell you nothing about your load.

[fltbed]

For those interested in actual data.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I ran some tests with my SA Single Stack 1911 using different primers. Everything was loaded on the same day and tested on the same day. 10 shot strings. Temps. were in the low 90’s.

The load:

Bear Creek 230 gr. FP

4.2 gr. Winchester Super Target

OAL 1.210

Large primer case R-P

Primer:

Win. Velocity 749 f.p.s. ES 45, SD 15

Fed. Velocity 751 f.p.s. ES 39, SD 13

Blazer small primer case

Primer:

Win SP Velocity 742 f.p.s. ES 49, SD 14

Fed SPM Velocity 739 f.p.s. ES 51, SD 16

CCI SR Velocity 741 f.p.s. ES 70, SD 21

Accuracy at 50 yards for each load averaged 6-7” with a combined 50 round group of 8” which is about as good as I can shoot open sights at that distance. So, at least with a 230 gr. BCFP and WST, their’s not a whole lot of difference.

More testing to follow.

Jeff

[PJones1911]

I appreciate the actual data and hoped there wouldn't be much difference. If any of you are S&W 625 revolver shooters and use them in competition, there is a large advantage to the small primer 45 brass. I have collected a lot of small primer brass over the past two years and just kept it with the intention of using it at some point. I shoot both at 686 and a 625 in competition. After doing a complete trigger job on both guns, with Jerry Mikulek's help, I was able to have a smooth 6 pound trigger pull on both revolvers. The 686 ignited the primers consistently and reliably every time but the 625 required an 8 pound pull to be consistent and reliable. It dawned on me that the small primer might just be the difference so I loaded up a bunch of 45 with the small primer and set the trigger pull to 6 pounds. It works great so I am now looking to collect more small primer 45 brass for revolver shooting.

Paul

[Carl02]

Can't help thinking there's a good reason 45 acp was designed for large primer.

[njl]

I'm not at all surprised. Your load is awfully light to start with. Small primers presumably have less primer compound in them so they make less gas.

I've had your same experience just from subbing weaker LP where all else was the same, also with a very light load that was probably barely running the gun.

(null)

[pskys2]

I appreciate the actual data and hoped there wouldn't be much difference. If any of you are S&W 625 revolver shooters and use them in competition, there is a large advantage to the small primer 45 brass. I have collected a lot of small primer brass over the past two years and just kept it with the intention of using it at some point. I shoot both at 686 and a 625 in competition. After doing a complete trigger job on both guns, with Jerry Mikulek's help, I was able to have a smooth 6 pound trigger pull on both revolvers. The 686 ignited the primers consistently and reliably every time but the 625 required an 8 pound pull to be consistent and reliable. It dawned on me that the small primer might just be the difference so I loaded up a bunch of 45 with the small primer and set the trigger pull to 6 pounds. It works great so I am now looking to collect more small primer 45 brass for revolver shooting.

Paul

You can also use .45 GAP brass in your 625, a bit touchy when it comes to moon clips but does work.

[ZombieHunter]

There is a slight different in pressure variation between small and large primer. It sounds like to me, you were on the very edge of what might cycle your gun and the small primer. Increase your charge by a few tenths in the small primer and you're issue will probably go away.