2011 breaking barrel links

[IndianaSlim]

First let me say that I'm not a gun smith and am fairly new to 2011 pistols coming from a glock.

Recently I purchased a used 5" sdc sti framed limited gun. I got a good deal on the gun and had it in a week, but am now regretting not ordering one paying more and waiting for it to be built correctly.

About 500 rds after receiving the gun it broke the barrel link. Upon disassembly and closer inspection we found out that the bottom hole in the link was "ovaled" enough you could see it with your naked eye when you held the 2 broken pieces together. It had a #3 link in it. When we put the gun back together with a new #3 link it "locked up" too tight. It took a significant amount of pressure to get the gun to unlock. Which made sense that the old link was "ovaled".

We did a little research on the topic and put the pistol back together with a #2 link in it. It cycled like butter and seemed to lock up correctly.

However, 250-300 rds later (and 3 rds into a multigun match) it broke this link. This one also broke at the bottom hole.

I'm stumped now. What's wrong with this gun? I'm close to sending it out to a big name shop and having them fix it but figured I'd the this a try first.

Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

[Alland]

Breaking links like that suggests that at linkdown the barrel is hitting the barrel bed and the link is limiting rearward travel of the barrel. That puts tremendous stress on the link. I believe that the barrel was not fit correctly.

[nipplehead]

Holy Shit Ryan you broke another one?..You might want this thread in the gun smithing section

[mjts]

I had a 2011 that only had a few hundred rounds though it according to the previous owner. I broke the link pin twice before taking it to a local gunsmith. After examining the gun, he determined that the barrel was not properly fitted. He was able to use a different sized barrel link to help with the timing, but advised me that this was likely a temporary fix. This got me through last season and I a had a new barrel fitted this year. You may have to see if the barrel can be properly fitted or possibly have the barrel replaced.

Mike

[gdboytyler]

1337183013[/url]' post='1706320']

First let me say that I'm not a gun smith and am fairly new to 2011 pistols coming from a glock.

Recently I purchased a used 5" sdc sti framed limited gun...

What does "sdc" mean?

+1 on the bbl not being properly fitted.

Check out this link for some tests you can do to verify the problem:

http://forum.m1911.o...44&page=1&pp=10

[IndianaSlim]

Sdc. Short dust cover. Thanks for link!

And yeah I broke another one. I had 3 people offer up their pistols so I shot Steve's the rest of the day.

[Croomrider]

It sounds like the vertical lug suurface in the frame is cut too far aft, and the barrel is being stopped by the link instead of the standing lug hitting the frame like it's supposed to. I'm not an expert on this, but it may require welding and re-cutting of the lug surface in the frame.

Mike

[ChuckS]

There is some good reading about timing in this document:

http://www.schuemann.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=jWUIcpla6NU%3d&tabid=67&mid=445

Later,

Chuck

[J.L. Hardy]

The only fix for this will be to weld up the face of the frame cut and recut. Chances are, if you had a new barrel installed, you would have to do this to properly fit the new one. If the current barrel has no damage itself, a reweld and recut would be the most cost effective repair. I believe barsto barrels are the only ones with oversized impact lugs. If it is a wilson/nowlin ramp then it can be properly recut for a clark/para for the simplest fix with a new barrel.

.

[nipplehead]

The only fix for this will be to weld up the face of the frame cut and recut. Chances are, if you had a new barrel installed, you would have to do this to properly fit the new one. If the current barrel has no damage itself, a reweld and recut would be the most cost effective repair. I believe barsto barrels are the only ones with oversized impact lugs. If it is a wilson/nowlin ramp then it can be properly recut for a clark/para for the simplest fix with a new barrel.

.

Ryan if your gonna need a frame welded up you might want to send the project to EGW. George is a master welder and anyone in his shop could properly fit a barrel for you.

[JCReid]

A broken link like described does not mean that welding is required, especially if it was a #2 link. There is a chance that the VIS is too far behind the slide stop and that could be an issue. However if you used a #2 link there are very few guns that will time correctly with that link. The size of the link is determined by the web thickness between pin hole on the barrel and the flats on the lower lug. If that thickness was thin enough to warrant the use of a #2 link, then I would contend that the lower lugs were over cut.

[isleman75]

A broken link like described does not mean that welding is required, especially if it was a #2 link. There is a chance that the VIS is too far behind the slide stop and that could be an issue. However if you used a #2 link there are very few guns that will time correctly with that link. The size of the link is determined by the web thickness between pin hole on the barrel and the flats on the lower lug. If that thickness was thin enough to warrant the use of a #2 link, then I would contend that the lower lugs were over cut.

There are several good points above, but none are 100% correct without looking at the gun. Schuemann's wen site is awesome for seekers of knowledge and will describe perfectly what you seek in the timing of the 1911/2011 platform. The timing is absolutely critical, and it does seem like your gun's builder (or re-barreler) didn't properly take into account everything that needs to be checked in the proper setup of that weapon.

I have been a gunsmith with and without a shop to call home, so I know a bit, and mostly know enough to say that you should definitely have the gun checked by a qualified 'smith versed particularly in the workings of Mr. Browning's finest work.

[mike cyrwus]

A broken link like described does not mean that welding is required, especially if it was a #2 link. There is a chance that the VIS is too far behind the slide stop and that could be an issue. However if you used a #2 link there are very few guns that will time correctly with that link. The size of the link is determined by the web thickness between pin hole on the barrel and the flats on the lower lug. If that thickness was thin enough to warrant the use of a #2 link, then I would contend that the lower lugs were over cut.

not entirely true, but theres truth in it.

the size of the link is determined by the position and distance of the slide lugs and the slide stop pin hole. Providing everything else is copacetic.

Your fourth sentence is how you install the link once everythings in the right place, but if the barrel isnt fit right, all that does is put the garnish on a nice s*** sandwich.

edit: clark barrels have an oversized VIS, least they used to.

Edited May 23, 2012 by mike cyrwus

[JCReid]

Sorry, but that is exactly how you determine what link to put in a barrel. Obviously the rest of the barrel must be fit properly. If you go to a shorter link than the web allows it will either crash hard on the lower lugs causing a FTRB, a stretched barrel link, and most likely the barrel will stop on the link and not the VIS. All will end up with a broken link, in short order. If you install a link longer than the web suggest, then it will stand on the link rather than the lower lugs in battery, accuracy will suffer. When it tries to pull the barrel out of battery it will have a tough time clearing the slide lugs in time potentially causing battering. This would greatly reduce the life of the barrel and/or slide.

[isleman75]

If the lower lugs and hood on the barrel are fit improperly, you will have to start from scratch and fit a new barrel. Check to see that the lower lugs ramp up on the slide stop when going into battery. If they do not, you will likely have to begin anew because standing on a longer link is not the right way to fit a barrel. It is a band-aid fix. Have a good 1911 smith check it out.

[Ross Carter]

The only fix for this will be to weld up the face of the frame cut and recut. Chances are, if you had a new barrel installed, you would have to do this to properly fit the new one. If the current barrel has no damage itself, a reweld and recut would be the most cost effective repair. I believe barsto barrels are the only ones with oversized impact lugs. If it is a wilson/nowlin ramp then it can be properly recut for a clark/para for the simplest fix with a new barrel.

.

I totaly agree with what J L Hardy wrote.

There is another possiblity if the VIS is cut correctly. That is the first thing to do, measure the distance from the slide stop to the VIS and compare that figure to what Schueman and others publish then you will know for sure.

Another remote possiblity if the VIS is in the correct location. If the barrel was not fit so that it fit up into the slide correctly and the feet were cut with the barrel low. A #2 link suggests that might be the case. With the short #2 link the barrel may not be able to reach the VIS when it unlocks resulting in broken barrel links. If your FP hits are off center you might check if the strikes are high indicating the barrel is fitted low in the slide.

Sometimes the tolerance stacks up the wrong way between the pile of parts you put together and these kinds of problems pop up. Another reason gunsmiths like to use the parts they know.

Don't forget the only job the link does is pull the barrel out of battery. The barrel should never lock up on the link.

[davisjarrett]

Ok reviving an old thread. This weekend my 2011 wouldn't cycle on the last course of fire after firing one shot. It was very hard to rack slide back and get expired casing out, but managed to do so. This happened the last three times I tried. Got gun home and broke it down to find a broken barrel link. This gun is new to me (about 2,000 rounds) but fairly well used before me (at least 15,000 rounds).

So I am thinking that since I haven't broken a link prior that this is just a case of fatigue on the part and simply replace and go. However, reading some posts it sounds like replacing it could lead to some larger issues. It broke on the upper link (barrel side) if that helps at all.

Any thoughts on simply replacing and monitoring vs getting it to a qualified smith?

[feederic]

I would never think a broken link is from fatigue. Send it off, get it diagnosed/fixed, clear it out from the back of your mind.

[davisjarrett]

OK. Suggestions as to whom to send to?

[jmbaccolyte]

Triangle Shooting Sports

[Jediwarrior]

I have seen an STI Edge in 40 break a link. It had a #4 link. So I replaced it with a #4 EGW link.

When I did the timing test, I noticed it would fail the #2 timing test, which is lack of contact with the VIS.

Measured the distance of the slide stop pin to the VIS on the frame. I was within specs.

However, when I measured the distance of the VIS to the vertical stop on the barrel, it was short by around 0.030 in. I could see the tool marks where the operator removed too much from the VIS on the barrel. In fact, the mill cut has broken thru the link slot on the VIS.

So I told the customer that it was a factory defect, and that the link will break again.

Permanent solution would be to weld the barrel, or replace it.

General rule in a case like this is to find out which part is out of spec, and make the correction on that part.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Jediwarrior

[davisjarrett]

Good points. I need to measure and compare. Any good diagrams to show exactly where to measure would be helpful? It just seems odd that it break after so many rounds though.

[Jediwarrior]

Ok, the standard distance of the slide stop pin to the VIS on the frame for the Wilson/Nowlin ramp barrel is 0.490 +/- 0.005 in.

Use the inside jaws (on the top) of the calipers to measure this distance. If it is within specs, then the barrel is suspect.

On the barrel, measure the VIS to the flat part where the slide stop pin rests (using the outside jaws). This is approx. 0.260 in.

You gun obviously fails the Schuemann timing test #2, which checks if there is contact between the VIS on both barrel and frame.

To do this test, insert barrel and slide on frame without the RSA. Insert the slide stop pin only, let the body of the slide stop dangle down. Notice that you can easily swing the SS. While holding the grip, push the barrel on a wooden surface. (If gun is an STI Edge, push against the edge/corner of the wooden table). Try to swing the SS to see if there is resistance cause by the pulling of the link.

On my previous post, the owner of the STI Edge had a barrel measurement of around 0.230 in., which is 0.030 in. short. This was a factory STI Edge, and no one, not even the owner, modified anything.

I guess the machine operator removed too much material, and there are probably more factory-built STI pistols out there with this condition.

Edited September 30, 2013 by Jediwarrior

[feederic]

Triangle Shooting Sports

This place gets my business. And I'm from kommiefornia too.

[bonglee0507]

Ok, the standard distance of the slide stop pin to the VIS on the frame for the Wilson/Nowlin ramp barrel is 0.490 +/- 0.005 in.

Use the inside jaws (on the top) of the calipers to measure this distance. If it is within specs, then the barrel is suspect.

On the barrel, measure the VIS to the flat part where the slide stop pin rests (using the outside jaws). This is approx. 0.260 in.

You gun obviously fails the Schuemann timing test #2, which checks if there is contact between the VIS on both barrel and frame.

To do this test, insert barrel and slide on frame without the RSA. Insert the slide stop pin only, let the body of the slide stop dangle down. Notice that you can easily swing the SS. While holding the grip, push the barrel on a wooden surface. (If gun is an STI Edge, push against the edge/corner of the wooden table). Try to swing the SS to see if there is resistance cause by the pulling of the link.

On my previous post, the owner of the STI Edge had a barrel measurement of around 0.230 in., which is 0.030 in. short. This was a factory STI Edge, and no one, not even the owner, modified anything.

I guess the machine operator removed too much material, and there are probably more factory-built STI pistols out there with this condition.

factory built STI's are quite crappy nowadays that's why i changed my barrel and jediwarrior did it