Open gun minor for three gun

[Alaskapopo]

I was thinking if USPSA goes mostly to time plus scoring I don't really need major PF for open anymore. I was thinking of getting a 9mm minor STI and running it in three gun. A friend of mine said the comps on the minor guns don't really work? Is that true. Who makes a good light weight open 9mm minor gun?

Pat

[oatw]

i did the same thing. sti steel master. i think the comp works just fine with 115gr @ about 1100 fps. 9mm brass a lot cheaper than 38s.

[oatw]

i`ll be at texas multigun. don`t know what squad or anything yet,but may run into you.

[Chuck Anderson]

Conventional major power factor comps aren't as effective as they are with major. The size/weight to effect ratio is off. You can take one of them and cut the front couple baffles off or just start with a smaller comp. Take a look at Steel Challenge guns. That's essentially what you're looking to build. 9mm minor and almost every one of them is comped to some degree. You can also look at one of the Schuemann Hybrib barrels which work really well at minor PF and are easy to holster. The compl doesn't have the down force of a major gun, but it doesn't need it. What it mainly does is stabilize the dot to keep you on target quicker. Of course I even comp my .22's for the same reason.

You could always go the smart way and build a Glock Open gun. I'm still convinced that gun rocks for 3 gun. Never have to worry about knocking the safety off when I dump it.

[EZE]

Conventional major power factor comps aren't as effective as they are with major. The size/weight to effect ratio is off. You can take one of them and cut the front couple baffles off or just start with a smaller comp. Take a look at Steel Challenge guns. That's essentially what you're looking to build. 9mm minor and almost every one of them is comped to some degree. You can also look at one of the Schuemann Hybrib barrels which work really well at minor PF and are easy to holster. The compl doesn't have the down force of a major gun, but it doesn't need it. What it mainly does is stabilize the dot to keep you on target quicker. Of course I even comp my .22's for the same reason.

You could always go the smart way and build a Glock Open gun. I'm still convinced that gun rocks for 3 gun. Never have to worry about knocking the safety off when I dump it.

I agree glock is the way to go for three gun. The last match I shot had a stage where you had to go roll over prone with your shotgun. The guys shooting s_i etc. were not to

happy about grinding their guns in the rocks and dirt. Keeping their guns from getting damaged or dirty effected the way they shot the stage.

Ethan

[Alaskapopo]

Conventional major power factor comps aren't as effective as they are with major. The size/weight to effect ratio is off. You can take one of them and cut the front couple baffles off or just start with a smaller comp. Take a look at Steel Challenge guns. That's essentially what you're looking to build. 9mm minor and almost every one of them is comped to some degree. You can also look at one of the Schuemann Hybrib barrels which work really well at minor PF and are easy to holster. The compl doesn't have the down force of a major gun, but it doesn't need it. What it mainly does is stabilize the dot to keep you on target quicker. Of course I even comp my .22's for the same reason.

You could always go the smart way and build a Glock Open gun. I'm still convinced that gun rocks for 3 gun. Never have to worry about knocking the safety off when I dump it.

I already have a spare Glock 17 Gen 4 that I have considered making open. Hmm. Thanks Chuck.

Pat

[nheiny13]

I have an M&P open gun for multigun and shoot it in minor. I freaking love it. Check it out, more details and a picture of it are in the gallery. And I even use a blade tech holster with a hood so there is no chance of it coming out accidentally

[CocoBolo]

i`ll be at texas multigun. don`t know what squad or anything yet,but may run into you.

I'll be at the Tx MultiGun, and probably be running my 9 Major Gun with 9 major ammo, STI Custom Build. I do have one 9 Major gun tuned to run minor ammo. I've been shooting it at some of the AASA Fun shoots and a steel match or two. I'm still not convinced that minor is an advantage, but this weekend I'm going to shoot one match minor and one match major and see which seems to be the most accurate and fast. I did a bunch of testing last Sunday with a variety of minor loads, see 9 major below.

I've shot the steel master before and it is a bit snappy when compared to my full size gun in either major or minor.

The favorite Minor I've shot is with 38SC, 115gr Zeros over 5.0+gr of WST.

In 9 major I like 5.2gr of AutoComp behind a 124gr MTG CMJ or 5.0gr behind a 135gr Bayou Bullet, they both feel the same and there is enough bang in them to make the gun cycle like major but a bit less bounce and flip. I tried some N320 and WST but they shot so soft the gun seemed slow.

As you know these 3-Gun matches are lousey with 4x4 steel plates so accuracy is very important. Since these a typically one shot flip and recoil really don't play much of a factor.

By the way the open gun has some advantages, but all the open shooters have the same advantage and you have to be way faster to hang, those iron sights split those that can and can't shoot.

Edited April 11, 2012 by CocoBolo

[KentG]

Conventional major power factor comps aren't as effective as they are with major. The size/weight to effect ratio is off. You can take one of them and cut the front couple baffles off or just start with a smaller comp. Take a look at Steel Challenge guns. That's essentially what you're looking to build. 9mm minor and almost every one of them is comped to some degree. You can also look at one of the Schuemann Hybrib barrels which work really well at minor PF and are easy to holster. The compl doesn't have the down force of a major gun, but it doesn't need it. What it mainly does is stabilize the dot to keep you on target quicker. Of course I even comp my .22's for the same reason.

You could always go the smart way and build a Glock Open gun. I'm still convinced that gun rocks for 3 gun. Never have to worry about knocking the safety off when I dump it.

I already have a spare Glock 17 Gen 4 that I have considered making open. Hmm. Thanks Chuck.

Pat

I went polymer this season and am glad I did but with an XDm and a carver mount plus Cmore. The add capacity alone makes it worth it plus you don't have to tie up a ton of money in it. You won't regret it.

[mark carr]

Hey Pat Morty built a M&P 9mm minor with comp give me a call next time your in this part of the country and I will get him to bring it out for you to try, Mark

[nheiny13]

Here's mine

Edited April 12, 2012 by nheiny13

[gng4life]

After my first 3G match, I went to my M&P. I was almost DQ'ed when my safety popped off on my STI as I grounded it. Luckily I went back and engaged it so no problem but after that, I decided I'm going plastic without an external safety. I just picked up a Glock Open gun for the wife but I plan on using that in 3G sometimes also, especially in the local matches that don't have divisions.

[sb3]

Agreed. Open Glock is the best thing since sliced bread for 3 gun.

The Schuemann barrel is great for minor and is not hard to keep running and is super soft and flat to shoot.

Here's mine...

[bbncu]

Agreed. Open Glock is the best thing since sliced bread for 3 gun.

The Schuemann barrel is great for minor and is not hard to keep running and is super soft and flat to shoot.

Here's mine...

Hello sb3,

Can you tell me who worked on your slide and fitted the barrel? Looks cool...does it shoot factory ammo? how light is your recoil spring to make it run? thanks..

[sb3]

Agreed. Open Glock is the best thing since sliced bread for 3 gun.

The Schuemann barrel is great for minor and is not hard to keep running and is super soft and flat to shoot.

Here's mine...

Hello sb3,

Can you tell me who worked on your slide and fitted the barrel? Looks cool...does it shoot factory ammo? how light is your recoil spring to make it run? thanks..

Glockworx did the milling for me and I can say that the fit and finish is stellar. It is really beautiful work (as much as a glock can be) It will shoot factory ammo all day long but every gun will run better on a good specific reload. I'm running an 11# recoil spring on it but it functions reliably on a 14# as well. I just liked the feel of the 11# better. The huge plus to this system is its not finicky, as comped pistols can sometimes be. It runs well on minor pf ammo and is very accurate , shoots softly and is small and quick. It will also run 9 major pretty well. It hits your palm a little harder with major ammo than a 2011 comped open gun but there is almost no flip. Surpisingly, the porting on the Schuemann loses very little velocity and of course works even better when you throw more gas to it.

I have ben very pleased with the deltapoint as well. I labored over the decision on what sighting system to use for this project, but the deltapoint is an obvious winner. It aligns well with where the factory sights would be and enables you to find the dot quite instinctively. Its bright in daylight and the 3.5 moa dot is more like a 6moa cmore and the glass is incredibly clear. With the inherently looser slide to frame fit of polymer guns(Glocks especially) a slide mounted optic is great and holds better accuracy than I have seen with frame mounted solutions. On top of this, the ability to use factory shaped kydex holsters is a big plus for 3 gun.

All in all I am extremely pleased with the results and while a comped gun will be inherently softer to shoot, this setup is just plain flat and fast. After all we are talking about minor PF ammo and if 9 minor isn't soft enough for you I think there may be bigger issues. I'm sure this isn't for everyone but its working great for me, so I thought I would share my findings. Hope this is helpful for someone.

[bbncu]

Agreed. Open Glock is the best thing since sliced bread for 3 gun.

The Schuemann barrel is great for minor and is not hard to keep running and is super soft and flat to shoot.

Here's mine...

Hello sb3,

Can you tell me who worked on your slide and fitted the barrel? Looks cool...does it shoot factory ammo? how light is your recoil spring to make it run? thanks..

Glockworx did the milling for me and I can say that the fit and finish is stellar. It is really beautiful work (as much as a glock can be) It will shoot factory ammo all day long but every gun will run better on a good specific reload. I'm running an 11# recoil spring on it but it functions reliably on a 14# as well. I just liked the feel of the 11# better. The huge plus to this system is its not finicky, as comped pistols can sometimes be. It runs well on minor pf ammo and is very accurate , shoots softly and is small and quick. It will also run 9 major pretty well. It hits your palm a little harder with major ammo than a 2011 comped open gun but there is almost no flip. Surpisingly, the porting on the Schuemann loses very little velocity and of course works even better when you throw more gas to it.

I have ben very pleased with the deltapoint as well. I labored over the decision on what sighting system to use for this project, but the deltapoint is an obvious winner. It aligns well with where the factory sights would be and enables you to find the dot quite instinctively. Its bright in daylight and the 3.5 moa dot is more like a 6moa cmore and the glass is incredibly clear. With the inherently looser slide to frame fit of polymer guns(Glocks especially) a slide mounted optic is great and holds better accuracy than I have seen with frame mounted solutions. On top of this, the ability to use factory shaped kydex holsters is a big plus for 3 gun.

All in all I am extremely pleased with the results and while a comped gun will be inherently softer to shoot, this setup is just plain flat and fast. After all we are talking about minor PF ammo and if 9 minor isn't soft enough for you I think there may be bigger issues. I'm sure this isn't for everyone but its working great for me, so I thought I would share my findings. Hope this is helpful for someone.

Thanks for the info...will check it out..

[THM7]

I switched from my Glock "Open" gun to one of my STI "Open" guns this past SMM3G. All I can say is I am glad I did...I shoot the STI soooooo much better than the Glock...no make up shots with the STI. Just ordered a Kydex holster for the STI....Ghost worked OK but I just want a little more protection.....and engaging the safety was not even a issue when grounding the gun. Both my STI "Open" guns work fine with minor ammo (9mm).

[hax]

Agreed. Open Glock is the best thing since sliced bread for 3 gun.

The Schuemann barrel is great for minor and is not hard to keep running and is super soft and flat to shoot.

Here's mine...

Hello sb3,

Can you tell me who worked on your slide and fitted the barrel? Looks cool...does it shoot factory ammo? how light is your recoil spring to make it run? thanks..

Glockworx did the milling for me and I can say that the fit and finish is stellar. It is really beautiful work (as much as a glock can be) It will shoot factory ammo all day long but every gun will run better on a good specific reload. I'm running an 11# recoil spring on it but it functions reliably on a 14# as well. I just liked the feel of the 11# better. The huge plus to this system is its not finicky, as comped pistols can sometimes be. It runs well on minor pf ammo and is very accurate , shoots softly and is small and quick. It will also run 9 major pretty well. It hits your palm a little harder with major ammo than a 2011 comped open gun but there is almost no flip. Surpisingly, the porting on the Schuemann loses very little velocity and of course works even better when you throw more gas to it.

I have ben very pleased with the deltapoint as well. I labored over the decision on what sighting system to use for this project, but the deltapoint is an obvious winner. It aligns well with where the factory sights would be and enables you to find the dot quite instinctively. Its bright in daylight and the 3.5 moa dot is more like a 6moa cmore and the glass is incredibly clear. With the inherently looser slide to frame fit of polymer guns(Glocks especially) a slide mounted optic is great and holds better accuracy than I have seen with frame mounted solutions. On top of this, the ability to use factory shaped kydex holsters is a big plus for 3 gun.

All in all I am extremely pleased with the results and while a comped gun will be inherently softer to shoot, this setup is just plain flat and fast. After all we are talking about minor PF ammo and if 9 minor isn't soft enough for you I think there may be bigger issues. I'm sure this isn't for everyone but its working great for me, so I thought I would share my findings. Hope this is helpful for someone.

Is that a KKM barrel in your glock?

Edited April 21, 2012 by hax

[GMEddie]

I run a tribrid barrel in my open steel gun. I wanted to get away from a true comp to allow the slide to cycle properly under real minor loads. They gun shoots great.

[sb3]

Agreed. Open Glock is the best thing since sliced bread for 3 gun.

The Schuemann barrel is great for minor and is not hard to keep running and is super soft and flat to shoot.

Here's mine...

Hello sb3,

Can you tell me who worked on your slide and fitted the barrel? Looks cool...does it shoot factory ammo? how light is your recoil spring to make it run? thanks..

Glockworx did the milling for me and I can say that the fit and finish is stellar. It is really beautiful work (as much as a glock can be) It will shoot factory ammo all day long but every gun will run better on a good specific reload. I'm running an 11# recoil spring on it but it functions reliably on a 14# as well. I just liked the feel of the 11# better. The huge plus to this system is its not finicky, as comped pistols can sometimes be. It runs well on minor pf ammo and is very accurate , shoots softly and is small and quick. It will also run 9 major pretty well. It hits your palm a little harder with major ammo than a 2011 comped open gun but there is almost no flip. Surpisingly, the porting on the Schuemann loses very little velocity and of course works even better when you throw more gas to it.

I have ben very pleased with the deltapoint as well. I labored over the decision on what sighting system to use for this project, but the deltapoint is an obvious winner. It aligns well with where the factory sights would be and enables you to find the dot quite instinctively. Its bright in daylight and the 3.5 moa dot is more like a 6moa cmore and the glass is incredibly clear. With the inherently looser slide to frame fit of polymer guns(Glocks especially) a slide mounted optic is great and holds better accuracy than I have seen with frame mounted solutions. On top of this, the ability to use factory shaped kydex holsters is a big plus for 3 gun.

All in all I am extremely pleased with the results and while a comped gun will be inherently softer to shoot, this setup is just plain flat and fast. After all we are talking about minor PF ammo and if 9 minor isn't soft enough for you I think there may be bigger issues. I'm sure this isn't for everyone but its working great for me, so I thought I would share my findings. Hope this is helpful for someone.

Is that a KKM barrel in your glock?

Yes it is a KKM gunsmith fit schuemann.

[DocMedic]

Ok, here's my question. If you already have a STI Major Open gun, what benefit do you think your going to get by running a STI open gun in Minor? Running a Glock/M&P/XD I can understand because of the "no safety" issue, but I just don't see what advantage minor over major would have on a Open gun. Pistol shots are already so few in 3gun as is.

Edited April 23, 2012 by DocMedic

[BlueOvalBruin]

Ok, here's my question. If you already have a STI Major Open gun, what benefit do you think your going to get by running a STI open gun in Minor? Running a Glock/M&P/XD I can understand because of the "no safety" issue, but I just don't see what advantage minor over major would have on a Open gun. Pistol shots are already so few in 3gun as is.

I agree, I also prefer shooting major ammo in 3gun anyway because they turn over those mgm spinners so much better than minor ammo. The amount of time I save on the spinner well outweighs the possible advantage of running minor in an open gun. Maybe tactical would be different because major has a lot more recoil and fewer rounds.