EricW Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 Knowing what stock o-rings actually cost, I set forth to find a reasonably-priced equivalent. Here's what I posted in another thread: It's a -022 size o-ring. 0.989 ID x 0.070 WYou'll need to specify Viton (Fluorocarbon) rings, NOT Buna-N. (Buna-N is only rated to 270F and will fry.) Viton is good to 400F. I'm going to see if I can source some true Teflon seals and see how they work. It's hard to tell, but I think the Remmy/Brownells seals are Buna-N which is why they're so crappy. And the ones Brownells sells as "Teflon" can't be Teflon if its the one they're showing in the picture. Teflon seals are milky-white - not black. For god's sake, don't buy your seals from Brownells. They're charging $5 for an o-ring that literally sells for 5 CENTS or less at the local hydraulic shop. I'm still working on sourcing Teflon seals. I've got the price down to $.40 ea, but may do better than that. I'm tempted to start selling these as cost as a service to humanity. 100X+ markup is pretty damned irritating. I've got both Viton and Teflon (PTFE) versions on order. I'll have the seals in my hand Monday. I'll post my results then. You will not *believe* what I'm paying for them. What have others tried? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidwiz Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 A Benelli M1 Super 90. An instant fix for your gas system woes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 9, 2004 Author Share Posted July 9, 2004 Funny. All too true. But I'd prefer this thread remain technical. If anyone wants to start a hate rant about what gawdawful POS guns the 1100 series are, I'll be all to happy to egg you on. But not here, por favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoodhazard Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 I'd go for a couple.I seem to be the parts man locally.I too discovered the #22's as an alternative to the ridiculous priced brownells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 I would jump on a metric poop load of cheaper ones as long as they are the Teflon impregnated ones rated for the temp. Then I would change them at every strip and clean. I run 2 O-Rings in my 11-87 for function reasons and would love to treat them like an oil filter, outta here! Thanks Eric, this could be a very cool thing. BTW, I posted my measurements in the other thread and we are in close agreement on the dims. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schapman43 Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 I would jump on a metric poop load of cheaper ones as long as they are the Teflon impregnated ones rated for the temp. Then I would change them at every strip and clean. I run 2 O-Rings in my 11-87 for function reasons and would love to treat them like an oil filter, outta here!Thanks Eric, this could be a very cool thing. BTW, I posted my measurements in the other thread and we are in close agreement on the dims. -- Regards, I'll have to do some looking around for the o-rings you guys are talking about. On a side note, I tried the two o-ring thing this morning and had nothing but problems. Couldnt get the gun to cycle at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 www.oringsusa.com. These guys have every kind of o-ring made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 12, 2004 Author Share Posted July 12, 2004 www.oringsusa.com.These guys have every kind of o-ring made. The only downside is that you have to cough up $130 for the handy 1000 pack. The rings I wanted were backordered. I should have them tomorrow. Will post results this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 14, 2004 Author Share Posted July 14, 2004 OK, I've got a baggie of 50 rings sitting in front of me. I also splurged $3 on what is supposedly the super special "silver" Brownells "teflon coated" o-ring. The -022 ring, except for the hardness of the rubber is the same size as what came with my gun. The new rings appear to be 70 durometer. The factory ring appears to be in the 80-90 range. (Higher durometer # = harder.) The Brownells ring is actually a tad smaller in ID and OD than the factory o-ring so it will fit tighter around the mag tube. I'm not sure that is a good thing. It actually leaves a gap between the OD of the ring and the tapered sealing flange on the barrel - which would appear to exactly what one would *not* want if acheiving a good gas seal was the goal. My factory seal is eroded on the *outside* of the ring, not the inside. So the OD would seem to be the critical dimension for good sealing. The "teflon" coated ring probably lasts a longer because of the coating, but I don't see how it could possibly reduce the gas blowby - which is (or should be) why people are dropping $5.43 on an o-ring. In fact, if anything, you'll get more blowby with the teflon ring than a regular rubber ring. I'm going to head to the range tomorrow and test the rings for wear. I'll try to find some reduced recoil slugs and see if one ring performs better than another. I have a sneaking suspicion that the softer ring will outperform the other rings in everything but damage due to crossing the threads on the mag tube (not a problem if you throw on a new ring every time you strip your gun). My final half-baked theory du jour is that if you're running 2 teflon-coated rings in order to get your gun to function, that you'd be better off running one rubber ring instead. Unless the o-ring seat is re-cut, the second ring is blocking a considerable portion of the gas ports. On my gun, the second ring actually forces the action partially out of battery. As always YMMV.....considerably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 14, 2004 Author Share Posted July 14, 2004 George just straightened me out on the two o-rings bit. It's *supposed* to hold the action open and reduce the opening force. So much for the partially-baked theory du jour... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Eric, I have quite a few reduced recoil slugs if you can't find any. I will be in Spokane on Saturday or Sunday (not sure which) anyway and we can probably arrange to meet and do a test. I can bring my 1100 as well to increase the n. So what if they are softer and won't last more than 500 rounds? I clean at least that often anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 15, 2004 Author Share Posted July 15, 2004 Kevin, Sounds very cool. Keep me posted. I was going to head up tomorrow, but the darn LEO's have some super-secret shotgun thing going on, and I don't know if they'll let me near the rifle line. God forbid the secret of the EgretSutra 1100 becomes public.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 (edited) I will add one thing to what Eric said, I do not recommend leaving the 2nd o-ring in place if you are going to shoot a lot of heavy game loads, or full bore slugs and buckshot. I use reduced recoil slugs and buck exclusively along with a specific lite shotshell. It will still run fine with hi-base 4‘s and full bore slugs and buck with 2 o-rings in place, but the bolt is really moving and it will beat things up in the action much faster that way. This is all about achieving reliable functioning with reduced gas system pressure from various reasons (low power shells, barrel ports, shorter barrels, etc.) The 2nd o-ring works for me with all of the gas system bleed-off I have going on with my Remmie and it works for some others too for other reasons, YMMV. I also have an Activator ring in place too if anyone is wondering why I didn’t try that instead of 2 o-rings. It takes all of that and the gas ports hogged out to .180 to get function 100% after the JP recoil eliminator and the barrel ports do their jobs on my 11-87. -- Regards, Edited July 15, 2004 by George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobydog Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Newly registered here, but have been visiting off and on for a while, usually when my 11-87 acts up, which is quite often lately. Came across this thread this evening and found it quite interesting. If you could find an oring that would last up to 500 rounds, I would be estatic! I can't seem to get more than 150 rounds max in my 11-87. Bought some cheap ones from the local gun store, they don't last at all. Was about ready to order some from Brownells, but guess I'll wait to see how all this turns out. We shoot 3-gun at my local range once a month, so the shotgun see's a fair amout of tear down and cleaning, but not enough apparently. Tonight the oring was completely gone. Will check back soon. Thanks guys. Tobydog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigS. Posted July 17, 2004 Share Posted July 17, 2004 Has anyone tried www.McMaster-carr.com for the o-rings. I think they have might have some, along with technical info as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 17, 2004 Author Share Posted July 17, 2004 A call to your local hydraulics store generally yields results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted August 6, 2004 Author Share Posted August 6, 2004 The Viton -022 seal is holding up extremely well. I've put several hundred rounds through my gun with no gas cutting on the seal. Where it doesn't work - is for doing the double o-ring trick. The second o-ring sits partially under the gas ports and the gas starts cutting it immediately. However, the soft Viton seal *has* to be sealing better than the rock-hard Brownells ring, so I don't see much, if any, disadvantage. I actually think it's an advantage because now, I'll always have a new seal on my gun. If you have to use the double o-ring to get your gun to unlock, I think you're stuck with the Brownells ring. You could possibly use a viton ring as a backup, since the second ring is what is in front of the gas port. Otherwise, I'm free of $5 o-rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Posted August 12, 2004 Share Posted August 12, 2004 EricW, I've been following this thread with interest as I use an 1100 for 3 gun. I've just tested the Viton-022 that you researched and they work great. My impression is they're actually better than the factory rings we've been using. It's the best .67 (apiece) I've ever spent. Thanks for getting the word out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted August 12, 2004 Author Share Posted August 12, 2004 It's the best .67 (apiece) I've ever spent. Thanks for getting the word out. Ouch! I'm glad it worked for you. I have exactly the same opinion about the ring. It's better and cheaper. Everything else is just over-engineering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 This O-ring should be treated like an oil filter, or toilet paper even. Use them once and chuck them at each cleaning. -- Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted August 13, 2004 Author Share Posted August 13, 2004 I hate to do this, but I'm deleting/editing a couple commercial posts. We (me especially) need to do the buying and selling in the dealer/classified sections. I'm mostly to blame since I started it. Hopefully this will fix it. Sorry for the forum pollution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Knowing what stock o-rings actually cost, I set forth to find a reasonably-priced equivalent. Here's what I posted in another thread: It's a -022 size o-ring. 0.989 ID x 0.070 W You'll need to specify Viton (Fluorocarbon) rings, NOT Buna-N. (Buna-N is only rated to 270F and will fry.) Viton is good to 400F. I'm going to see if I can source some true Teflon seals and see how they work. It's hard to tell, but I think the Remmy/Brownells seals are Buna-N which is why they're so crappy. And the ones Brownells sells as "Teflon" can't be Teflon if its the one they're showing in the picture. Teflon seals are milky-white - not black. For god's sake, don't buy your seals from Brownells. They're charging $5 for an o-ring that literally sells for 5 CENTS or less at the local hydraulic shop. I'm still working on sourcing Teflon seals. I've got the price down to $.40 ea, but may do better than that. I'm tempted to start selling these as cost as a service to humanity. 100X+ markup is pretty damned irritating. I've got both Viton and Teflon (PTFE) versions on order. I'll have the seals in my hand Monday. I'll post my results then. You will not *believe* what I'm paying for them. What have others tried? found these o-rings at www.McMaster-carr.com, but they have 2 different OD's. which one would be the correct one for an 1100? 1 1/8" or slightly larger 1.129"?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted October 8, 2004 Author Share Posted October 8, 2004 Knowing what stock o-rings actually cost, I set forth to find a reasonably-priced equivalent. Here's what I posted in another thread: It's a -022 size o-ring. 0.989 ID x 0.070 W You'll need to specify Viton (Fluorocarbon) rings, NOT Buna-N. (Buna-N is only rated to 270F and will fry.) Viton is good to 400F. I'm going to see if I can source some true Teflon seals and see how they work. It's hard to tell, but I think the Remmy/Brownells seals are Buna-N which is why they're so crappy. And the ones Brownells sells as "Teflon" can't be Teflon if its the one they're showing in the picture. Teflon seals are milky-white - not black. For god's sake, don't buy your seals from Brownells. They're charging $5 for an o-ring that literally sells for 5 CENTS or less at the local hydraulic shop. I'm still working on sourcing Teflon seals. I've got the price down to $.40 ea, but may do better than that. I'm tempted to start selling these as cost as a service to humanity. 100X+ markup is pretty damned irritating. I've got both Viton and Teflon (PTFE) versions on order. I'll have the seals in my hand Monday. I'll post my results then. You will not *believe* what I'm paying for them. What have others tried? found these o-rings at www.McMaster-carr.com, but they have 2 different OD's. which one would be the correct one for an 1100? 1 1/8" or slightly larger 1.129"?? None of the above. 0.989 + .070/2 = 1.024 OD I've never seen an o-ring sold by OD, however. Only by ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted October 8, 2004 Share Posted October 8, 2004 Knowing what stock o-rings actually cost, I set forth to find a reasonably-priced equivalent. Here's what I posted in another thread: It's a -022 size o-ring. 0.989 ID x 0.070 W You'll need to specify Viton (Fluorocarbon) rings, NOT Buna-N. (Buna-N is only rated to 270F and will fry.) Viton is good to 400F. I'm going to see if I can source some true Teflon seals and see how they work. It's hard to tell, but I think the Remmy/Brownells seals are Buna-N which is why they're so crappy. And the ones Brownells sells as "Teflon" can't be Teflon if its the one they're showing in the picture. Teflon seals are milky-white - not black. For god's sake, don't buy your seals from Brownells. They're charging $5 for an o-ring that literally sells for 5 CENTS or less at the local hydraulic shop. I'm still working on sourcing Teflon seals. I've got the price down to $.40 ea, but may do better than that. I'm tempted to start selling these as cost as a service to humanity. 100X+ markup is pretty damned irritating. I've got both Viton and Teflon (PTFE) versions on order. I'll have the seals in my hand Monday. I'll post my results then. You will not *believe* what I'm paying for them. What have others tried? found these o-rings at www.McMaster-carr.com, but they have 2 different OD's. which one would be the correct one for an 1100? 1 1/8" or slightly larger 1.129"?? None of the above. 0.989 + .070/2 = 1.024 OD I've never seen an o-ring sold by OD, however. Only by ID. OD as in outside diameter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted October 8, 2004 Author Share Posted October 8, 2004 I realize that OD means outside diameter. I'm saying that o-rings are generally specified by INSIDE DIAMETER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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