DQ reinstatement question

[waktasz]

Hopefully this is a simple question...If a shooter is DQ'd during a stage because of a safety violation, and the stage time and hits on targets are not recorded for that stage, is that grounds for reinstatement back into the match?

[aztecdriver]

Hopefully this is a simple question...If a shooter is DQ'd during a stage because of a safety violation, and the stage time and hits on targets are not recorded for that stage, is that grounds for reinstatement back into the match?

The stage is not scored for a DQ, therefore it's not grounds for reinstatement.

[splashdown]

Nope, DQ is a DQ unless the match is complete and the DQ happens during a shoot-off. Pending results of an arb.

See chapter 10.3 of the rule book.

[XD Niner]

A DQ has nothing to do with a stage score. there are many ways to DQ without being the active shooter on a stage.

[waktasz]

Thanks guys. Shooter was insistent that someone got a dq reversed because a stage score was not recorded at one of the bigger matches. Maybe nationals

[Maksim]

there was a specific case in FL at the Open this year, where I was RO. Shooter DQ'ed, but was told to reshoot by RM because the scores were not recorded before anyone came over.

this specific case was me, and I have hte videos.

I was told after i shot the entire stage, and after unload show clear about the DQ.

it was a 180 violation, where it is possible I violated it.

In any case, was the RM then wrong at Florida Open?

More specifically.

10.3.2 When a match disqualification is issued, the Range Officer must record

the reasons for the disqualification, and the time and date of the incident,

on the competitor’s score sheet, and the Range Master must be

notified as soon as possible.

10.3.3 Scores for a competitor who has received a match disqualification must

not be deleted from match results, and match results must not be

declared final by the Match Director, until the time limit prescribed in

Rule 11.3.1 has passed, provided no appeal to arbitration on any matter

has been submitted to the Range Master (or his delegate).

Is what was referred to me, along with something else when I was down there.

Edited April 8, 2012 by Maksim

[j0n]

there was a specific case in FL at the Open this year, where I was RO. Shooter DQ'ed, but was told to reshoot by RM because the scores were not recorded before anyone came over.

this specific case was me, and I have hte videos.

I was told after i shot the entire stage, and after unload show clear about the DQ.

it was a 180 violation, where it is possible I violated it.

In any case, was the RM then wrong at Florida Open?

Classy response, not what I would have typed. Kudos.

ETA: deleted the rest of my response, as it was rather antagonistic in nature... Going along with this thread though, isn't an RO required to stop a shooter immediately upon deciding that they have done something to earn a DQ?

Edited April 8, 2012 by j0n

[waktasz]

Nothing in the rules thatsay that. Here's how I explained it to the RM. At the time I could not tell for sure if he had violated 180 based on my observations of the gun. After going back and seeing where he shot the target from it was impossible for him not to have broken it from there. If i was wrong I will own up to it but i believe it was the right call.

[Maksim]

And there were other people and no one can agree on where the shot exactly came from. As the Stage designer, the stage was not symmetrical, and parts of the free fire zone were not at exact angles to the pit.

it was not a clear 200% break, but probably on the border or somewhere in between.

Without going into a he said/she said, it goes away from the original intent of the question....

[wgnoyes]

Hopefully this is a simple question...If a shooter is DQ'd during a stage because of a safety violation, and the stage time and hits on targets are not recorded for that stage, is that grounds for reinstatement back into the match?

The stage is not scored for a DQ, therefore it's not grounds for reinstatement.

Well, the way it was explained to me, if a shooter DQ's, the RO's record hits, misses, FTE's, other procedurals, and the time(s) anyway. That way, if for whatever reason the competitor is reinstated, the recorded stats ARE his performance on the stage even if he was stopped mid-stream, otherwise he gets a reshoot. But not writing them down in the first place is not reason for overturning a DQ.

[warpspeed]

Interesting.

Since the DQ is not final until the Arb period has passed, the stage must scored in the event the DQ is overturned. Otherwise, the competitor would get a reshoot. But if they are stopped in the middle of the run, issued a DQ and the DQ is over turned, they'd get a reshoot anyway.

So, to OPs question, I don't think so. But then again, IANARL.

[warpspeed]

Hopefully this is a simple question...If a shooter is DQ'd during a stage because of a safety violation, and the stage time and hits on targets are not recorded for that stage, is that grounds for reinstatement back into the match?

The stage is not scored for a DQ, therefore it's not grounds for reinstatement.

Well, the way it was explained to me, if a shooter DQ's, the RO's record hits, misses, FTE's, other procedurals, and the time(s) anyway. That way, if for whatever reason the competitor is reinstated, the recorded stats ARE his performance on the stage even if he was stopped mid-stream, otherwise he gets a reshoot. But not writing them down in the first place is not reason for overturning a DQ.

Wait wait wait.

If I am stopped mid-stage and DQed but get it overturned, how does my stage score stand ?

[scooterj]

Hopefully this is a simple question...If a shooter is DQ'd during a stage because of a safety violation, and the stage time and hits on targets are not recorded for that stage, is that grounds for reinstatement back into the match?

The stage is not scored for a DQ, therefore it's not grounds for reinstatement.

Well, the way it was explained to me, if a shooter DQ's, the RO's record hits, misses, FTE's, other procedurals, and the time(s) anyway. That way, if for whatever reason the competitor is reinstated, the recorded stats ARE his performance on the stage even if he was stopped mid-stream, otherwise he gets a reshoot. But not writing them down in the first place is not reason for overturning a DQ.

Wait wait wait.

If I am stopped mid-stage and DQed but get it overturned, how does my stage score stand ?

Should be grounds for a reshoot since you were stopped by the RO midcourse.

[wide45]

Answer to the original question.

If the time of day was not recorded when the competitor was DQ'ed, the DQ will not stand.

Missing stage score and time is a separate issue that would not be sole cause to overturn a DQ. If the scores have not been entered, they can't be deleted. There are provisions for dealing with an incomplete scoresheet.

10.3.2 When a match disqualification is issued, the Range Officer must record the reasons for the disqualification, and the time and date of the inci- dent, on the competitor’s score sheet, and the Range Master must be notified as soon as possible.

Edited April 9, 2012 by wide45

[Sarge]

Good question and good answers.

But, I'm not so sure a shooter gets a reshoot if he is stopped. If you overturn a DQ it does not necessarily mean you did not commit the infraction. Whereas if you are stopped and the RO clearly made a mistake and admits it then I could certainly see a reshoot being awarded.

Not saying anybody is right or wrong. Just throwing my thoughts into the mix.

[Nik Habicht]

Good question and good answers.

But, I'm not so sure a shooter gets a reshoot if he is stopped. If you overturn a DQ it does not necessarily mean you did not commit the infraction. Whereas if you are stopped and the RO clearly made a mistake and admits it then I could certainly see a reshoot being awarded.

Not saying anybody is right or wrong. Just throwing my thoughts into the mix.

Kevin,

if a reshoot is overturned, then technically speaking we have an RO error -- so if the shooter was stopped in the middle of the stage, reshoot.....

If the DQ was issued as the shooter completed the stage, then the best practice would be to score it, in case there's a successful appeal....