lef-t Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 I had this idea for a stage that I had to lay out in 3D to really picture how it would work. My goal was to make the stage pose a couple challenges: - Accurate shooting through ports that you can't run up into. - Remembering which targets you've engaged since some are visible through 2 ports - Quickly moving from one port to another to activate, then engage the drop-turner. - Planning efficient reload points. I'm looking for comments/suggestions on whether or not this is a good stage. My major question is, as a shooter would you take the time to try to pick up the points on the drop turner or just activate it and take the no penalty mikes to save time? Here's the 3D model walkthrough: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Nice! It really depends on the timing of the popper and disappearing target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobmysterious Posted March 27, 2012 Share Posted March 27, 2012 Oh yes!!!! I would love to shoot this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Even without the disappearing target it would be an interesting stage. One concern would be rounds penetrating the walls that define the ports. Each hit would need to be verified and patched and also any hits that result from penetrating hits would need to be accounted for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lef-t Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 Even without the disappearing target it would be an interesting stage. One concern would be rounds penetrating the walls that define the ports. Each hit would need to be verified and patched and also any hits that result from penetrating hits would need to be accounted for. I had that concern as well. I don't know of anything to do about it other than maybe put a note in the course description for the RO's to be on the lookout and to try and remember what target was being engaged, if they notice a shoot-thru, to look closer at during the scoring. Maybe a dumb question, but is there any kind of paint or anything that if a bullet passed through it, the bullet would pick up the color and leave a some kind of mark on the target? I know the lack of a carbon ring around a hit would also be an indication of a shoot-thru, but could be kinda cool if there was a way for the bullet to leave some kind of colored mark if it passed through the wall and into the target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdphotoguy Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) Looking at the 3D walk through, I'd probably skip trying to shoot the drop turner, but seeing the stage live and in person I might change my mind. Not sure about your question on paint or something to identify a shoot-thur. Your best bet would be to physically setup the stage and check for a shoot-thru, then adjust the target(s) to insure that won't happen. Edited March 28, 2012 by jdphotoguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 the wall shoot through would be a acoring issue, I also dont like visible targets from the shooting area that can be safely engaged but by WSB they cant be, Extending the vision barrier to and having a defined foot fault area would prevent this. Based on the pics I wouldnt bother with the drop turner. Not only would I probably not make it coming back and forth on ports would make it harder to remember which targets had been shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 It is difficult to tell from the diagrams, but if you are not careful, you are going to have some problems with target shoot throughs. For example, it looks like each of those poppers could be hit by a bullet that passed through a target. Is the circle line intended as a fault line? If so that might change the angles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krdshrk Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Forget the drop turner - if you wanna truly be evil, toss a Texas Star in there... then it's really a death star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lef-t Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 the wall shoot through would be a acoring issue, I also dont like visible targets from the shooting area that can be safely engaged but by WSB they cant be, Extending the vision barrier to and having a defined foot fault area would prevent this. I'm just really lazy when it comes to hammering down fault lines, but I could enclose the shooting area so you can't shoot around those walls. It does say to "engage all targets through center ports" in the procedure, but I put that last bit in for added clarification. Based on the pics I wouldnt bother with the drop turner. Not only would I probably not make it coming back and forth on ports would make it harder to remember which targets had been shot. Forcing that quick movement and mixing up the shooter is definitely the intention of that. You're confirming my suspicion that more experienced shooters would bypass all the extra movement and confusion and sacrifice the possible points. I really want to make the shooters move between ports instead if just shooting it linearly. I'm thinking about putting a second turner and making them both appearing targets so that they must be engaged and no matter if you move from left to right or the opposite, at some point you'll have to go back to a port. It is difficult to tell from the diagrams, but if you are not careful, you are going to have some problems with target shoot throughs. For example, it looks like each of those poppers could be hit by a bullet that passed through a target. Is the circle line intended as a fault line? If so that might change the angles. Good call. This is a slim one, but I'll have to be on the lookout when I set it up. Thanks for the feedback y'all. Keep it coming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) Good call. This is a slim one, but I'll have to be on the lookout when I set it up. The hardest lesson I have had to learn is that no matter how accurate a scale diagram you do, it's going to look different when you set it up. As a result, the tighter you make the tolerances on the stage diagram, the more likely you are to run into problems during setup. Let me add another caution, if someone puts a round through a wall and into a target, you might be able to sort that out come scoring time. But if they put a bullet through a wall and hit a steel, then you will probably have to reshoot the stage. Edited March 28, 2012 by Graham Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Based on the pics I wouldnt bother with the drop turner. Not only would I probably not make it coming back and forth on ports would make it harder to remember which targets had been shot. Forcing that quick movement and mixing up the shooter is definitely the intention of that. You're confirming my suspicion that more experienced shooters would bypass all the extra movement and confusion and sacrifice the possible points. I really want to make the shooters move between ports instead if just shooting it linearly. I'm thinking about putting a second turner and making them both appearing targets so that they must be engaged and no matter if you move from left to right or the opposite, at some point you'll have to go back to a port. If you believe in giving shooters the choice, and still run the stage with the star, you can possibly set it up so that poppers can activate the star to get it spinning. If the shooters choose a plan that doesn't require going back and forth between ports (eg go one quadrant at a time) they will come up to a spinning star by the time it is available. If the shooters choose a plan that requires going back and forth, they can shoot a static star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 may not need foot faults, just extend the side vision barriers so the targets arnt visible from the start box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colt22man Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Make the ports narrow enough competitors can't squeeze out & back in otherwise it'll happen. Force them to back out and around to the next port. I've tryed this design, while it was functional and fun, the little guys were squeezing out and backing in at the hub. I hate to use forbidden action so next time I squeezed the shooting ports tightly together eliminating the gamers devious thoughts. Give it a try, competitors love new ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjl Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) Make the ports narrow enough competitors can't squeeze out & back in otherwise it'll happen. Force them to back out and around to the next port. I've tryed this design, while it was functional and fun, the little guys were squeezing out and backing in at the hub. I hate to use forbidden action so next time I squeezed the shooting ports tightly together eliminating the gamers devious thoughts. Give it a try, competitors love new ideas. I think when I try out this stage I will place a barrel in the hub to prevent little guys from squeezing through the openings. Also will go with a clamshell or MaxTrap with non-disappearing targets instead of the drop turner. Edited July 19, 2012 by mjl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjl Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Make the ports narrow enough competitors can't squeeze out & back in otherwise it'll happen. Force them to back out and around to the next port. I've tryed this design, while it was functional and fun, the little guys were squeezing out and backing in at the hub. I hate to use forbidden action so next time I squeezed the shooting ports tightly together eliminating the gamers devious thoughts. Give it a try, competitors love new ideas. I think when I try out this stage I will place a barrel in the hub to prevent little guys from squeezing through the openings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ming the Merciless Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Even without the disappearing target it would be an interesting stage. One concern would be rounds penetrating the walls that define the ports. Each hit would need to be verified and patched and also any hits that result from penetrating hits would need to be accounted for. I had that concern as well. I don't know of anything to do about it other than maybe put a note in the course description for the RO's to be on the lookout and to try and remember what target was being engaged, if they notice a shoot-thru, to look closer at during the scoring. Maybe a dumb question, but is there any kind of paint or anything that if a bullet passed through it, the bullet would pick up the color and leave a some kind of mark on the target? I know the lack of a carbon ring around a hit would also be an indication of a shoot-thru, but could be kinda cool if there was a way for the bullet to leave some kind of colored mark if it passed through the wall and into the target. How about just defining the walls as soft cover, and then building them solid enough that shooting through them is probably going to be a miss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lef-t Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) Make the ports narrow enough competitors can't squeeze out & back in otherwise it'll happen. Force them to back out and around to the next port. I've tryed this design, while it was functional and fun, the little guys were squeezing out and backing in at the hub. I hate to use forbidden action so next time I squeezed the shooting ports tightly together eliminating the gamers devious thoughts. Give it a try, competitors love new ideas. I think when I try out this stage I will place a barrel in the hub to prevent little guys from squeezing through the openings. You could make it where the shooting area is inside between the walls. I chose to make it around the walls. I found it makes it more challenging since you not only have to thread the needle between the walls, but you really have to work the angles and keep moving. Thanks to the input in here, I decided to go with 2 appearing targets so that no matter which direction you shot it, you'd have to backtrack for at least one of them. The way I shot it was to run up and get one popper to activate the appearing target and then run it straight through from side to side. The plan was good, but the execution was poor. This stage messed my brain up pretty good while running through it. Took a lot of focus. Also, nobody out of 80 shooters shot the wall. I was very surprised at that. I was expecting swiss cheese. Here's a vid of myself and some squadmates running the course. Here's the final stage design. Edited July 20, 2012 by lef-t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Nice! I was thinking that this might be fun to do at our range, but then I remembered that we don't have a U-shaped bay that could contain all the shots. Mebbe a Death Star Lite, with a more restricted axis of fire... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lef-t Posted July 23, 2012 Author Share Posted July 23, 2012 Nice! I was thinking that this might be fun to do at our range, but then I remembered that we don't have a U-shaped bay that could contain all the shots. Mebbe a Death Star Lite, with a more restricted axis of fire... It's definitely a scaleable stage design. You could eliminate one of the partitions making 3 areas and not go the full "180" degrees, but maybe 90 or 100. Its mostly about target placement. You'll want to set up your barriers and then move around them to see where the angles land. I tried to put one target on either side as you move past a barrier and at least one in the center. The popper & appearing target concept still forces the desired movement with only 3 areas if you can only see the poppers from the far sides. Post up pics/vid if you give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris iliff Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 That is a stage I'd love to shoot. Good job!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenDot Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 i'd shoot it as well...looks like fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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