Beretta 92 for ipsc minor

[hal1955]

I like the Beretta 92 platform. I want to use one for IPSC production minor pf. I don't care about slide safety, decocker etc. All I care about is sight picture, trigger pull, and sight recovery, and accuracy. I think I can get all those things from a 92. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The only thing I worry about with the 92 is cracked slides and frames. I hear a lot of horror stories and that is what is preventing me from buying a nice little Vertec I found. I've heard of frames cracking after 30,000 rounds or less. SO, is there a problem with design or metallurgy ? or is all this overblown ? Any info or advice would be appreciated.

Edited March 22, 2012 by hal1955

[Chills1994]

I got booted off the Light Fighter forum because somebody supposedly said they saw just crates and crates of broken 92 slides at some high speed army base in the 1980's.

My reply was basically "Pics, or it didn't happen."

Then on another forum somebody else was trying to perpetuate this myth of the broken slide, and I replied with "I'll pay $100 for a broken slide." It might have actually been $200, I can't remember now.

Still nobody has contacted me to ship me a broken slide, and receive their reward.

So far, in probably my 7 years on the Berettaforum.net , I have only seen exactly one pic of what looks like a broken Beretta 92 slide.

[1911aow]

I used a Beretta 92FS in IPSC Production division for 10 years. During the time it was my duty, carry and competition gun.

Used it until th barrel and frame eventually cracked. The barrel had hairline crackes all around its circumference just ahead of the chamber. The gun still grouped, it just shot the group about 8" higher than point of aim at 25 yards. The frame developed hairline cracks around the sear pin and trigger pin. I cracked two locking blocks.

All this happend after shooting in excess of 90 000 rounds in 10 years.

Most of these where 115gr FMJ's at 133 power factor.

When the gun broke I took it back to the armourer and had it replaced with a new one. I used a recoil spring much (very much) lighter than the standard spring and that could have resulted in the cracks in the frame and barrel.

These days I use a CZ as competition gun since I shoot it slightly faster, but the new Beretta is still my carry and duty gun and I have full confidence in it.

[lee blackman]

I've heard of broken lock blocks, but I've never experienced one. I have an 90's era Beretta 96 with the old school pre-surefire (says laser products or something) light that came from a bulk trade/buy at a local law enforcement distributor. There was almost no finish left on the receiver when I got it. I mean it look like literally someone had repeatedly thrown it across a parking lot on a rainy day. I got it for next to nothing though. I couldn't imagine the round count on it. I had it k-coated and beat it up some more. I know I've put several cases thru it over the years. I just always kept it wet, but never had any issues.

I'm with 1911AOW on the CZ though. If your a beretta shooter, a transition to a CZ is really natural. And its definitely a faster gun. The captured slide frame design, smooth triggers, low barrel axis, higher capacity, beefier frame design, no Walther style locking lug, amazing accuracy, great quality, and excellent reliability. Not to mention they have a natural point-ability, great feel in the hand, and you can get a really really high grip on them. Just saying unless your dead set on the Beretta, stop by czcustom.com and check out some of Angus Hobdell's guns. I've been a Glock shooter now since '02, but if I wasn't shooting Glock, I'd most definitely be shooting CZ.

[59Bassman]

My wife has had a Beretta 92FS for the past 15 years or so. I don't know how many rounds we've put through it, I'd estimate more than 6K but less than 10K. In that time, the only failure we've had was from a case separation, which blew the trigger bar out (was fixed in 15 minutes in front of the computer looking at disassembly videos).

The Beretta gets knocked in carry and duty circles for being too big and too heavy. IMHO, that makes it a pretty good competition candidate. With a set of Hogue wraparounds, the gun is hand-filling and doesn't recoil much at all. Magazines are readily available, duty-style Kydex holsters are easy to find. Where it falls down somewhat is in competition parts and accessories. It's a vicious circle - no one makes accessories for it since very few people shoot them. Few people shoot them because nobody makes accessories...

The Vertec does appear to fix one of my major issues with the Beretta. With a stock 92FS, you're pretty much stuck with the stock front sight, unless you want to get into some pricey gunsmithing. The Vertec looks like it has a dovetailed front sight, which is a big plus.

I've shot my wife's Beretta in competition a handful of times. In fact, it was competing with the Beretta that gave me the confidence to order the CZ I shoot now. I used the Beretta we had to ensure that the DA/SA transition that everyone claims causes kidney stones, gout, and general incontinence wasn't going to be an issue. I found that once the buzzer went off, I never felt the difference in trigger pull.

I do prefer the CZ for competition for a number of reasons. I think the CZ has some features going for it that make it a more suitable choice for USPSA/IPSC. However, they're not significant enough that it will make the difference between winning and losing, IMHO. If you like the Beretta and it's available, there's no reason not to shoot one.

[hal1955]

My wife has had a Beretta 92FS for the past 15 years or so. I don't know how many rounds we've put through it, I'd estimate more than 6K but less than 10K. In that time, the only failure we've had was from a case separation, which blew the trigger bar out (was fixed in 15 minutes in front of the computer looking at disassembly videos).

The Beretta gets knocked in carry and duty circles for being too big and too heavy. IMHO, that makes it a pretty good competition candidate. With a set of Hogue wraparounds, the gun is hand-filling and doesn't recoil much at all. Magazines are readily available, duty-style Kydex holsters are easy to find. Where it falls down somewhat is in competition parts and accessories. It's a vicious circle - no one makes accessories for it since very few people shoot them. Few people shoot them because nobody makes accessories...

The Vertec does appear to fix one of my major issues with the Beretta. With a stock 92FS, you're pretty much stuck with the stock front sight, unless you want to get into some pricey gunsmithing. The Vertec looks like it has a dovetailed front sight, which is a big plus.

I've shot my wife's Beretta in competition a handful of times. In fact, it was competing with the Beretta that gave me the confidence to order the CZ I shoot now. I used the Beretta we had to ensure that the DA/SA transition that everyone claims causes kidney stones, gout, and general incontinence wasn't going to be an issue. I found that once the buzzer went off, I never felt the difference in trigger pull.

I do prefer the CZ for competition for a number of reasons. I think the CZ has some features going for it that make it a more suitable choice for USPSA/IPSC. However, they're not significant enough that it will make the difference between winning and losing, IMHO. If you like the Beretta and it's available, there's no reason not to shoot one.

I've used the Shadow in competition for about 5 years I think. I'm good with it. The 92 points perfectly for me like no other gun I have handled. I think I shoot the 92 just as fast. My only concern is frame cracking. I know a guy who had two (2) Elite frames crack in him around 2005. I am wondering if it was bad metallurgy or design flaw. Maybe the newer manufacture is better than the old. I just don't know..........

[DyNo!]

I shot about 10k in an Elite I had for years.

I could never do better than "B" class with one but Ben Stoger shoots one as a "GM" and I think there is one other.

It's certianly a candidate for competition. About their durability - they'll last for many rounds after you've cracked and replaced a locking block and trigger return spring.

[Chills1994]

Masaad Ayoob wrote a book on the Beretta:

http://www.amazon.com/Gun-Digest-Book-Beretta-Pistols/dp/0873499980/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1332549240&sr=1-2

I flipped through the pages way back when. He said one of the reasons the Beretta slides broke was because the SEALs were using suppressors/muzzle cans that put extra stress or leverage on the locking block which in turn leveraged the slide in a funny way that it was never designed to do. that and plus P ammo.

[Steve Anderson]

I got started in production with the 92 elites, and really liked them. My 9s were fine, although I did crack a .40 frame shooting hot bowling pin loads. (replaced under warranty)

I doubt that Ernie Langdon is still doing Beretta trigger jobs, but they were AWESOME.

I only switched to the XD because the Beretta trigger guard was grinding my finger off and became quite painful after extended use.

Good guns...

SA

Edited March 25, 2012 by Steve Anderson

[lee blackman]

You know 58BAM brought up a good point. I have shot off alot of front sights. Between Colt 1911's, shotguns beads, and just recently my fiber optics front sight on an 870. The beretta has a fixed front sight milled into the slide. You can't exactly shoot it off

[jtielke]

A piece of the frame on my Beretta 92FS Vertec Inox broke off after about 70k rounds. It broke where the locking block contacts the frame. Almost all rounds fired were 147 gr. 9mm around 130-135 PF. I used it exclusively for USPSA Production and IDPA SSP division for several years.

[hal1955]

A piece of the frame on my Beretta 92FS Vertec Inox broke off after about 70k rounds. It broke where the locking block contacts the frame. Almost all rounds fired were 147 gr. 9mm around 130-135 PF. I used it exclusively for USPSA Production and IDPA SSP division for several years.

Is the frame toasted ? Can it be repaired ?

[jtielke]

It won't work as it is. The locking block doesn't have anything to hit on that side and goes askew damaging the parts around it. I suppose it could be TIG welded but I just got a new gun for now.

[bofe954]

Some beretta info:

http://benstoeger.myonlineplace.org/joomla/index.php?view=article&catid=34%3Aarticles&id=195%3Aa-few-hundred-thousand-rounds-later&option=com_content&Itemid=53

http://benstoeger.myonlineplace.org/joomla/index.php?view=article&catid=34%3Aarticles&id=203%3Amy-berettas-will-not-last-forever&option=com_content&Itemid=53

[NuJudge]

The Walther P38 is mechanically very similar to the Beretta 92, has the same reputation of cracking slides, and in the same place. I have cracked a slide on a P38 my father got me in 1968, but only after shooting it regularly for 20 years, with a lot of WWII surplus that was intended for submachineguns, plus a lot of Lead bullet handloads. I did not shoot it in competition, just plinking, but the round count was easily 10K, and probably not over 20K.

I noticed the crack when oiling it one day. It was half way up one one side of the slide, moving in a curve. Interarms, which imported and sold the pistol to my Dad, was still in business then, and they gave me a new 'thick' slide, and told me the thicker slides were an attempt to fix the cracking problem.

I still have the slide somewhere. If someone really wants to see a pic of it, I will dig it out. I am a geek, but not a computer or photography geek, so I don't know how well I can make it show in a photo.

Strangely, I have never heard of a P38 block cracking as Beretta 92 blocks do.

[MTN]

I got booted off the Light Fighter forum because somebody supposedly said they saw just crates and crates of broken 92 slides at some high speed army base in the 1980's.

My reply was basically "Pics, or it didn't happen."

Then on another forum somebody else was trying to perpetuate this myth of the broken slide, and I replied with "I'll pay $100 for a broken slide." It might have actually been $200, I can't remember now.

Still nobody has contacted me to ship me a broken slide, and receive their reward.

So far, in probably my 7 years on the Berettaforum.net , I have only seen exactly one pic of what looks like a broken Beretta 92 slide.

While it certainly isn't common with routine mainenance, I have seen two instances of this happening in the last 3 years. Both resulted in the split lips of the shooters involved. Almost everyone laughed, then took their gun apart and checked it out. The next day I was shooting at a civilian range with one of the guys who got stitched up over his gun malfunction. We were laughing about how silly the whole situation was when a yahoo we had never met comes up and proceedes to tell us that the specific cicumstance we were describing was a myth and that in x amount of years around that pistol he had never seen such a malfunction. My friend gladly told him he wished he would have gotten the first hand experience of that himself. Oh well I guess we had just seen this guys unicorn hahaha.

Locking blocks and trigger springs are fairly common problems in M92s that have 10,000 rounds fired through them without replacement parts. I recently had my small arms guys fix both of these on my service pistol. Other than that it shoots better than I do.

Bottom line is: If you want to shoot the gun to pieces, then you have to replace to parts.

[Stony Lane]

Split lips? How would that happen? Please explain. Won't the large head on the trigger pin not allow the "broken" slide to come off on the 92fs?

[19852]

If you like the 92 then I say shoot one. I shot an older used 92F [not the FS] for several years with no issues. Now I shoot a lightly used, former police trade, 92G w/fading NS. I do have other reasons for choosing the 92 besides competition. I use mine without reservation and if it breaks I'll get another. As a freind once said, "they make more every day"..

Edited July 16, 2012 by 19852

[Ben Stoeger]

It is a good platform. I am abusive to my guns and they have held up pretty well.

[bierman]

Put thousands and thousands through my 92FS without a problem. I just talked to the guy I sold it to and he told me his son is now shooting it and still no problems.

[Art Yeo]

Quite naturally, I guess the next question is this: does it happen to a CZ?

How many rounds before a CZ start to have show cracks as well?

[Running Dog]

It's all man-made.........I have a 92fs that I Inherited .......was my dad's duty weapon; has soooo many rounds through it I'm surprised it hasn't cracked , melted down, caused the internet to crash,altered the election and generally brought humanity to a screeching halt; yet it keeps on running like the energizer bunny and I put ??????????? rounds through it with nothing more than a wipe & a dab of slide glide....Luck o' the Irish? Oooops I mean Italians!......Cracks? I don't see no stinkin' cracks!