Art Yeo

I just ordered the 5" for my M&P Pro. Hope it's worth it.

I am wondering if anyone has tried the fairly new Apex Tactical Grade Bbl? What kind of results are you getting at 25 yards, compared to a CZ 75 and Beretta 92?

Increase the shooting distance I would like to see the groupings for various test results shooting at 25 yards and 50 yards by hand on sandbags. If any of you have the drop-in Apex bbl, let's see the groupings as well. And, let's shoot it with heavier loads 9mm. Light loads used for competition is not the norm for 9mm. The Army Marksmanship Unit had tested the 9mm to death and the most accurate loads are the heavier loads. As I have reported previously on this website, at close range, you cannot see much difference among all the bbl (Old style OEM , New style OEM, Storm Lake, etc.) You can only see the difference when you increase the distance. So, let's see those. Randy, If you have test results that meet the above requirements, please post them. Also, if you can comment a little on why you changed the twist rate to 1:10, if would be great.

Mine arrived at Remington on June 4, 2014 and it is scheduled to arrive back at my home on 8/11/2014.

I have already sent it in. Then, I realized that I can buy the Timney trigger directly from their website. Oh well ...

Per the recent Remington recall for their 700 series rifles, what kind of turnaround time are you guys getting after you register with them on their website for the recall? We are supposed to get a mailing kit and shipping label. Has any of you gotten yours yet?

How could it make any difference if the twist rate is this slow? a) Almost all of the European manufacturers who are producing service pistols have twist-rates around 1:9 - 1:10 S&W has already switched all of their current production bbl to 1:10 twist rate and they shoot nice and straight. I want to know what kind of technical advantage this new bbl brings before I even think of spending another single $0.01. If it's just durability, it's a tough sell. If it needs a smith to fit, it is also a tough sell because the current factory bbl shoots accurately and it is drop-in.

If at 15yds it is low, you may miss the target at 25 yards. I agree, try to aim over the target.

If I were you, I'd check the hands to make sure you are not obstructing the slide. I know most of us are obsessive with holding as high as possible and sometimes, the weak hand's fingers could well be touching the slide.

S&W told me that the bbl with the new twist rates started shipping since Dec. 2012.

I only asked them about the FS and the 5" Pro and they were both shipped with the faster twist rate since 12/2012. I am guessing the shorter barrel ones should be the same.

More info about the new twist rate http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=3719 Also, the new twist rate bbl were shipped since Dec 2012.

I am sure we would love to see if you have seen any difference between the two bbl in terms of shooting at 25 yards.

Okay Art as you seem civil enough, I am taking my mere mortal Indian and his M&P bow to the range with Fed and Win Wally World arrows this weekend. I'm going to shoot groups at 15, 25, and 50yds if I can get the space to. I'll post my results good, bad or ugly. If you're right, then you're right. I've fired my M&P exactly six times so far so I am not very familiar with the platform. My credentials are this: IDPA dropout, USPSA and ICORE c class revolver shooter (inactive), Military Sealift Command(civilian mariner) M9 handgun qualified (best in class twice 239/240). I'm not a noob, but still very mortal. You've picqued my curiosity about the capabilities of the platform. So let's check it out. Forrest, If yours was acquired recently, you might be in luck and have the 1:10" twist-rate M&P9 (see my post today). Please let us know the results of your shooting excursion. Thanks, Art

I've got nine S&W .38/.357 revolvers across three frame sizes, plus my 2008 production M&P FS 9x19. All use the same rate of twist. All of them stay under 2" at 25 yards. There are apparently a few M&P 9s that shoot poorly out there, but it's not due to the rate of twist. My guess is that S&W just had a bad batch of barrels. Show me the spec sheets that give the twist on those, because that is not what S&W says.. Mark - For the last hundred or so years, the rate of twist in S&W .38 revolvers has been one turn in 18-3/8". It works for bullets from 95-200+ grains. In the 60s and 70s, Winchester offered a .38 Special "Super Police" load using a 200 grain LRN that didn't break 600 fps from a snubbie, and there weren't any problems with stabilization (admittedly not the same as accuracy). When S&W came out with the M&P 9, the reviews noted that the rate of twist was the same as the .38 revolvers...IIRC, the Model 39 also used the same twist, but I can't swear to that. Colt did almost the same thing - their revolver rate of twist is one turn in 14", and the 9x19 and .38 Super factory 1911 barrels used a 1-16" twist. I checked in the S&W website, and couldn't find the M&P 9's rate of twist noted anywhere. I dug the M&P 9 and the first relevant S&W revolver I found (M19-3 4") out of the safe and looked down the bores, and they sure look like they have the same rate of twist. I also have a SIG P6, a Beretta 92 Brigadier, and two CZ-75s, and they have obviously faster rates of twist - I believe it's 1-9.7". The Beretta and one of the CZs are honest 1.5" at 25 yard guns, and the others run in the 2" range. S&W may have unscrewed the problem with 9x19 barrels so that they all give good accuracy, and they may have changed the rate of twist. I'm just saying that there's no relationship between the two occurrences. revchuck, I agree with your logic about the success of the slower twist-rate .38spl revolver days and actually Elmer Keith has also talked about it. However, on the 9mm semi-auto platform, there is clearly a difference between the sharp shooting higher twist-rate European made ones and the M&P9. I may be wrong but I cannot come up with any European-made 9mm semi-auto pistol that has a slow twist-rate as the old M&P9 or the .38spl revolvers. Twist-rate changed I wrote to S&W and the official confirmation came in this morning. The current twist rate for the M&P9 has, indeed, been changed to match the European competitors and it is now ... (drum roll, please) ... 1:10" I'd be very curious to know who has just bought an M&P9 recently that has the faster twist-rate rifling and have tested its accuracy at 25 yards or further.