Is shooting IDPA really worth it?

[Merlin Orr]

?

What's your question, Merlin?

Reloading on the move was the cause of the question mark...... I understand that to be a no..

[motosapiens]

Reloading on the move was the cause of the question mark...... I understand that to be a no..

I've never seen anything in the rulebook that would suggest that, and I've certainly reloaded while moving before (for example, along a wall, where the reload can be completed behind cover. Also it's possible to reach slide lock while engaging targets that the COF specifies must be shot while moving, and where no cover is available. I think you might reload while moving then too, although you might also just stop, reload, and start shooting again after you start moving.

[jkrispies]

Relevant excerpts from the rulebook after a search of the word fragment "mov" with boldface being my own:

"Courses should be designed with specific reload points behind cover in mind. Once behind cover, a competitor may move behind cover while reloading."

"All reloads must be executed from cover (if cover is available) and must be completed before leaving cover. A shooter is deemed loaded and may move from a position of cover ONLY when the fresh magazine is FULLY SEATED and the slide is fully forward or revolver cylinder is closed. Shooters may not move from one position of cover to another with an empty gun. Reloads must be completed from cover, however this does not mean that a shooter must duck back completely behind cover to reload before reengaging targets from a stationary firing point."

By this, I interpret that reloading on the move is legal as long as cover is not broken throughout that movement.

Also, "All reloads must be executed from cover (if cover is available) and must be completed before leaving cover" implies that if no cover is available, then reloading while moving is a viable option... I would think...?

Just my reading of a book I'm trying to learn...

Edited March 20, 2012 by jkrispies

[Alaskapopo]

I love shooting sports. I love three gun the best, followed by USPSA pistol, then IDPA then Steel Challenge. I shoot IDPA because it allows me to shoot more. Its all fun.

pat

[John Z Sr]

This debate has been going on for a long time. I shoot them both, RO/SO both and support both. Both have their separate merits. If the question is "fun" , that is up to the shooter. Some have fun at either game. The comments as to the people, that makes the difference, good folks make for a good day. The topic or "rules" well anyone that knows me knows my views on that. The problem I see from most when it comes to IDPA, is not the rules per se, but how they are interpreted and enforced from squad to squad and shooter to shooter. For just about all the reasons stated already, that is the reason my wife Mel and I started ZSA a little over a year ago. Virtually no rules other than SAFETY, super simple scoring and SAFE COMPETITIVE FUN designed for the newer shooter is our goal. I tried to keep the fun of shooting, which is why we all do it, and not have 80 page rule books to have to adhere to and discuss on every stage. Bottom line, enjoy what you choose SAFELY and thank the MD's and staff at every match you attend, most folks don't know the amount of work that goes into setting and running a match. If you had a great time, let them know, if you saw something that could be improved, politely give some feedback, if there are some real jerks at a match, don't squad with them. And remember to thank God that you live in a Country that gives us a choice, while we still have it !!!!

Edited March 20, 2012 by John Z Sr

[Merlin Orr]

This debate has been going on for a long time. I shoot them both, RO/SO both and support both. Both have their separate merits. If the question is "fun" , that is up to the shooter. Some have fun at either game. The comments as to the people, that makes the difference, good folks make for a good day. The topic or "rules" well anyone that knows me knows my views on that. The problem I see from most when it comes to IDPA, is not the rules per se, but how they are interpreted and enforced from squad to squad and shooter to shooter. For just about all the reasons stated already, that is the reason my wife Mel and I started ZSA a little over a year ago. Virtually no rules other than SAFETY, super simple scoring and SAFE COMPETITIVE FUN designed for the newer shooter is our goal. I tried to keep the fun of shooting, which is why we all do it, and not have 80 page rule books to have to adhere to and discuss on every stage. Bottom line, enjoy what you choose SAFELY and thank the MD's and staff at every match you attend, most folks don't know the amount of work that goes into setting and running a match. If you had a great time, let them know, if you saw something that could be improved, politely give some feedback, if there are some real jerks at a match, don't squad with them. And remember to thank God that you live in a Country that gives us a choice, while we still have it !!!!

Good post, John.....

[mike l m]

To every one here,

IDPA is worth just the range time. Trigger control control, breathing, shooting on the move, all of it. All I can say is just go out and shoot and enjoy.

Mike

[John Z Sr]

This debate has been going on for a long time. I shoot them both, RO/SO both and support both. Both have their separate merits. If the question is "fun" , that is up to the shooter. Some have fun at either game. The comments as to the people, that makes the difference, good folks make for a good day. The topic or "rules" well anyone that knows me knows my views on that. The problem I see from most when it comes to IDPA, is not the rules per se, but how they are interpreted and enforced from squad to squad and shooter to shooter. For just about all the reasons stated already, that is the reason my wife Mel and I started ZSA a little over a year ago. Virtually no rules other than SAFETY, super simple scoring and SAFE COMPETITIVE FUN designed for the newer shooter is our goal. I tried to keep the fun of shooting, which is why we all do it, and not have 80 page rule books to have to adhere to and discuss on every stage. Bottom line, enjoy what you choose SAFELY and thank the MD's and staff at every match you attend, most folks don't know the amount of work that goes into setting and running a match. If you had a great time, let them know, if you saw something that could be improved, politely give some feedback, if there are some real jerks at a match, don't squad with them. And remember to thank God that you live in a Country that gives us a choice, while we still have it !!!!

Good post, John.....

Thanks Merlin

[Lee B]

My gripe with IDPA is that it's simply less fun.

That sets the tone for the match. Until you can find a way around this you, personally, might be better off at a square range and dry fire. And there's nothing wrong with that. There are some clubs and some people that aren't worth the headaches.

That said, go to the next match, focus on the fundamentals of marksmanship at speed and paste and reset targets like you own 'em. You might have a good time while still following all the game rules and differences in the sport. Respectfully, Lee.

[Flexmoney]

One can always volunteer to help out at the matches, and design in aspects that give the match some variety.

[lugnut]

One can always volunteer to help out at the matches, and design in aspects that give the match some variety.

Our club works hard at this. It's difficult to do while adhering to the IDPA rules but it can be done. We also strive to have higher round counts. Getting to 100/match is manageable while at the same time offering good variety and challenges.

[kevin c]

We host IDPA matches at our 5 bay action range, where we hold two USPSA matches a month. The USPSA matches run up to about 150 rounds over the morning and early afternoon of match day. The IDPA matches often meet or exceed that round count in the same time. How? We run nine stages, two scenarios on each bay except our small chrono bay, which gets one. IDPA scenarios and the set up guidelines mean that most props needed can go into a relatively small space, so side by side set ups are possible. Some inventive stage designers, each of whom is responsible for the two scenarios on his bay, will incorporate parts of one stage into the next and relate the first scenario to the second.

Gets the round count up, which may boost attendence.

[Skydiver]

We host IDPA matches at our 5 bay action range, where we hold two USPSA matches a month. The USPSA matches run up to about 150 rounds over the morning and early afternoon of match day. The IDPA matches often meet or exceed that round count in the same time. How? We run nine stages, two scenarios on each bay except our small chrono bay, which gets one. IDPA scenarios and the set up guidelines mean that most props needed can go into a relatively small space, so side by side set ups are possible. Some inventive stage designers, each of whom is responsible for the two scenarios on his bay, will incorporate parts of one stage into the next and relate the first scenario to the second.

Gets the round count up, which may boost attendence.

I think that it's those inventive stages that usually keep people coming back for more...

[John Z Sr]

One can always volunteer to help out at the matches, and design in aspects that give the match some variety.

Yup !!!!!

[Skydiver]

One can always volunteer to help out at the matches, and design in aspects that give the match some variety.

Yup !!!!!

+1.

Our USPSA club depends on the potluck effect where people volunteer to setup a stage (or two) in a bay, and all the MD/RM does is make sure that the stage is legal, and there are no safety issues. It makes for great variety. Once in a blue moon, this backfires, though. I think everyone was thinking of the upcoming Area 1, and so started upping the difficulty level on their own stage. With everyone thinking the same way, it almost felt like we had a level II match this past weekend.

[Kali]

I shoot and enjoy both. The biggest gripe I have about IDPA isn't so much with the sport itself, but its success with new shooters. At any local match at the 3 or 4 clubs in my area they will average around 60-80 shooters, most of them pretty new to the game. While its great new people are coming out to shoot, we usually don't get done until around 3pm on the average, its a lot of work as an SO and not a whole lot of shooting. Compare that to 40-50 shooters for a USPSA match, more rounds downrange and getting done 2 or 3 hours earlier. Another thing with IDPA is that it has a lower competition level. i.e.: not enough Master shooters locally to keep me challenged. USPSA has many more Production Masters that can kick my butt, and if they don't show up I can always compare my times against Limited division.

[Punkin Chunker]

We host IDPA matches at our 5 bay action range, where we hold two USPSA matches a month. The USPSA matches run up to about 150 rounds over the morning and early afternoon of match day. The IDPA matches often meet or exceed that round count in the same time. How? We run nine stages, two scenarios on each bay except our small chrono bay, which gets one. IDPA scenarios and the set up guidelines mean that most props needed can go into a relatively small space, so side by side set ups are possible. Some inventive stage designers, each of whom is responsible for the two scenarios on his bay, will incorporate parts of one stage into the next and relate the first scenario to the second.

Gets the round count up, which may boost attendence.

Very interesting ideas -- care to share any examples of the scenarios?

Edited March 20, 2012 by Punkin Chunker

[kevin c]

The simplest way I know to put two stages into a small space is to run one set up in two directions, from a new start position each time. The same set up can test very different skills. Recently I had shooters shoot three targets in tactical sequence while retreating, all shots fired before reaching cover, then engage another array of three from the other side of the barricade in tactical priority. In the next stage, using the same set up, they had to start on the second array from cover, and then engage what was the first array also from cover, tac priority both times, but the kicker was simulating a strong side wound by taking the last array WHO. The first targets are now more distant and are being engaged in different order, WHO, a very different proposition from the first run. It can be even more different if you add a couple more targets behind another barricade with a desk/chair start on the new targets and again going backwards to the first array.

You can run the same course in the same direction, but with different props. You can take the shooting on the retreat scenario above, and add a man down scenario where you have to drag a dummy to safety while shooting.

You can make just a few targets worth a lot of rounds. I have simulated armored opponents where the shooter puts two into the body, with the scenario reporting little effect, and then having to reengage the same targets (again going back in the opposite direction, this time in the same stage), this time with two to the upper down zero section - I got the equivalent of 9 targets using only 6 in a space that was about 30'x12' including to the berm behind the targets on that one.

[waktasz]

I like them both and shoot both.

I started in IDPA and knew nothing of USPSA for about 4 or 5 years. Now I like USPSA better but still do a lot of both types of matches. In IDPA you have to aim harder because those down ones start to add up quick. USPSA is about speed and getting decent hits, but does not focus as much on accuracy.

[twodownzero]

I like USPSA because you get to shoot more, and shooting is the toughest skill to master. I mostly shoot Single Stack/Production so I even use the same gun(s).

[lugnut]

I like them both and shoot both.

I started in IDPA and knew nothing of USPSA for about 4 or 5 years. Now I like USPSA better but still do a lot of both types of matches. In IDPA you have to aim harder because those down ones start to add up quick. USPSA is about speed and getting decent hits, but does not focus as much on accuracy.

To a point. IDPA always costs you .5s for a down 1... however depending on the stage, a charlie can hurt you more or less depending on the HF... certainly in Production which is scored minor. Anything lower than a 4 HF will cost you "more" in USPSA for a charlie. Anything over HF 4 will cost you less in USPSA.

For me... accuracy is something that is still very important in both sports and mentally I like to keep it that way in my mind.

[59Bassman]

I had a really bad experience going to watch an IDPA match in 1997 that kept me pretty well soured to the sport. When I bought my USPSA Production gun last year, I bought one that would be SSP legal as well so that I could shoot both. It took about 10 months, but I finally shot my first IDPA match. It's different for sure. I believe trigger time is trigger time, and any shooting you can do is better than sitting at home playing XBOX or watching TV.

I can't ever see IDPA becoming my primary sport, but it is probably something I will do on occasion to mix it up now and then. I'm already shooting USPSA, 3 gun, and Steel Challenge. I will say that I prefer all of them to IDPA.

[waktasz]

I like them both and shoot both.

I started in IDPA and knew nothing of USPSA for about 4 or 5 years. Now I like USPSA better but still do a lot of both types of matches. In IDPA you have to aim harder because those down ones start to add up quick. USPSA is about speed and getting decent hits, but does not focus as much on accuracy.

To a point. IDPA always costs you .5s for a down 1... however depending on the stage, a charlie can hurt you more or less depending on the HF... certainly in Production which is scored minor. Anything lower than a 4 HF will cost you "more" in USPSA for a charlie. Anything over HF 4 will cost you less in USPSA.

For me... accuracy is something that is still very important in both sports and mentally I like to keep it that way in my mind.

4 hit factor? I don't see a lot of USPSA stages where the winning HF is as low as a 4...at least not around here. That would have to be a huge stage with lots of movement or some really long shots. Just quickly checking my past two match results...the lowest stage winning HF I've seen was 4.59 and that was JJ Racaza on a classifier that involved some hard partial shots with a reload then some weak hand shots.

[lugnut]

I like them both and shoot both.

I started in IDPA and knew nothing of USPSA for about 4 or 5 years. Now I like USPSA better but still do a lot of both types of matches. In IDPA you have to aim harder because those down ones start to add up quick. USPSA is about speed and getting decent hits, but does not focus as much on accuracy.

To a point. IDPA always costs you .5s for a down 1... however depending on the stage, a charlie can hurt you more or less depending on the HF... certainly in Production which is scored minor. Anything lower than a 4 HF will cost you "more" in USPSA for a charlie. Anything over HF 4 will cost you less in USPSA.

For me... accuracy is something that is still very important in both sports and mentally I like to keep it that way in my mind.

4 hit factor? I don't see a lot of USPSA stages where the winning HF is as low as a 4...at least not around here. That would have to be a huge stage with lots of movement or some really long shots. Just quickly checking my past two match results...the lowest stage winning HF I've seen was 4.59 and that was JJ Racaza on a classifier that involved some hard partial shots with a reload then some weak hand shots.

There aren't a lot. But there are a fair amount I've seen in the 4s and 5s. I didn't mean to get all caught up in the math... but just to realize that in USPSA the down "points" can kill you just as well in minor.

[38supPat]

Lol...I remember a stage at a Tennesee state championship where I think the winning HF was in the 1's or 2 something at best....anyone remember the Long Island Railroad stage?