Tizzo Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I've just spent the last few hours reading about optic/iron options for my newly acquired AR. This is my first AR so I'm only a little lost with so many options out there. Looking to spend less than $200, I need to get out and shoot the thing. For this year I just want to become familiar with the rifle, but I eventually want to get into 3 gun. The upper of the AR is a DPMS Sportical Flat Top, and I've already learned I need to account for the front sight mounting on the gas block rail. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Ho Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I've just spent the last few hours reading about optic/iron options for my newly acquired AR. This is my first AR so I'm only a little lost with so many options out there. Looking to spend less than $200, I need to get out and shoot the thing. For this year I just want to become familiar with the rifle, but I eventually want to get into 3 gun. The upper of the AR is a DPMS Sportical Flat Top, and I've already learned I need to account for the front sight mounting on the gas block rail. Thanks Not sure exactly what you mean "account for the front sight mounting on the gas block rail" If you already have iron sights on the gun, use those. That would be the least expensive route. If you want to go the scope route, Keep an eye on the classified section. A used Millet DMS 1-4 is a great deal. Burris Mtac is an upgraded Tac30. They are both 1-4 and since the Mtac just came out, you can usually find a good deal on the Tac30. Both are great scopes for the money. Main thing is to get something and start shooting. Don't worry about finding the perfect sighting system, use what you have or can afford. It's an AR, upgrading is easy. Don't be afraid to approach people and ask them about their scopes/irons. Eventually, after you learn how to use the rifle, you'll learn what you what in a scope or irons. Just go shoot some local 3gun matches and have fun, then worry about shopping. just my $.025 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizzo Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 Not sure exactly what you mean "account for the front sight mounting on the gas block rail" I'm running this DPMS upper: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/416788/dpms-ar-15-sportical-flat-top-upper-assembly-556x45mm-nato-1-in-9-twist-16-light-contour-barrel-chrome-moly-matte-with-glacierguard-handguard-single-rail-gas-block-flash-hider I've read that if I go with irons, I need to account for the rail on the gas block being lower than that of the flat top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Texas Granny Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I've always been told to learn how to use your iron sights before using optics which makes a lot of sense to me. Never know when the battery is going to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Find you a front sight that you can mount and do not spend much money. There are lots of carry handles with rear sights attached cluttering up the closets of people who have no use for them so you ought to be able to grab one of those for very little money. Shoot your rifle and save your money. IMO the only optic your going to find within your price range optic wise is something that is made in China which is not the ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke8401 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I've read that if I go with irons, I need to account for the rail on the gas block being lower than that of the flat top. Most of the gas block mounted front sights will be the correct height for a detachable carry handle rear sight set up. Many irons shooter use the DPMS rear clamp on sight. I understand folding sights are not the best because of flex/movement unless you spend big cash. So fixed front and rear are the best bet. You would however have a short sight radius that would hamper you down the road/at longer ranges. What would I do having gone the irons to optic route? Buy a 1-3x Weaver and mount. Sight it in for 200yds if you only shoot out to 250 or so, 300yd sight in if you shoot farther and learn the holds. This would take you a long way in the 3 gun game. I would say that shooting irons enough to hit 2-3 MOA at distance will make you a better shooter all the way around and is worth some time/effort/ and money. David E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizzo Posted March 12, 2012 Author Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) I've always been told to learn how to use your iron sights before using optics which makes a lot of sense to me. Never know when the battery is going to die. So I should be avoiding the irons from Primary Arms, Troy, and the like for the time being? Edited March 12, 2012 by Tizzo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks1 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 For what it's worth... According to the linked photo from another poster you WILL need a front sight for a gas block, which will be taller. I like the DPMS rear sight as it has windage and elevation adjustments. YHM makes a good front gas block sight, there are probably others just as good. Remember to zero the rifle according to instructions given for irons. You can web search for these. I zero at 25 meters and run with that using a six o'clock hold. Hits are consistant from 25 to 300 meters with no sdjustment for elevation. A so called battle sight zero, so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Looking to spend less than $200, but I eventually want to get into 3 gun. Tizzo, I'm in exactly the spot YOU are - just bought a S & W AR and wanted to scope it (I can't see the metal sights:( I bought a $55 Chinese scope - most people on the Forum say it's a waste of time - I haven't mounted it yet, so we'll see. First thing I'm going to do is find out what I want to do with this gun - look at local matches, and see what distance we're talking about. I found one match out to 700 yds with 2 MOA targets !!! So, I won't be shooting that one anytime soon. Found another that has shots at 5 - 50 yards - I guess a 1x scope (or red dot) is all I'd need there. But, going to look around a bit more and see what other matches in the area are doing before I settle on a real sight. Not sure, but in MN, you might get some long distance shooting at your matches - and if you don't get real close shots - you might be able to get away with a 2 - 7 scope??? From what I've read here, if you want to be able to deliver fast shots at 5 - 400 yards, you need to spend at least $600 for the scope, and if you go from 5 - 600 yards you are better in the $1200 range:( So, I'm going to go slowly down that path ... Good luck to both of us. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I strongly recommend buying a low powered variable scope (1-4Xish) and shooting Tac Optics. It will be tough to get a good system for $200 though. But I'm sure you can give it a go with a sight like the aformentioned Weaver 1-3X, Colts' cheap 3-9X, Redfield's 2-7X, Simmons 1.5-5X, or Leupold's 1.5-4X Mark AR scope. These are pretty affordable scopes and will get you up and running. Your Sportical is going to be very challenging to use with iron sights on targets of any difficulty. The wide stock front sight post combined with short sight radius is simply going to kill you. If the matches that you are planning to shoot are inside 100 yards give it a go with the irons but if you are going to be shooting 150-300 yard shots, I would not even waste your time and ammo (which costs $$ too). Some things are false economy, I think struggling with an inadequate sighting system falls into this category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead-Head Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I like that you are considering Irons. It is my favorite division personally and we need more shooters. BUT, Kelly is dead on, the rifle you descibe is going to be tough to use at major matches. Local matches, OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizzo Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 I'm leaning towards irons simply on a cost basis. Looking at the Yankee Hill flip front (gas block) and rear. From a local guy here in MN who competes in 3 gun, he describes the stages as 90% of shots will be under 40 yrds, with 9.5% being at 100yds or less, and 0.5% being further our than that. That is true for USPSA 3 gun and IDPA DMG 3 gun. Odds of me using this rifle in any major matches is probably slim, if I'm motivated to go compete in major matches I'll probably have a better rifle by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 he describes the stages as 90% of shots will be under 40 yrds, with 9.5% being at 100yds or less, and 0.5% being further our than that. That is true for USPSA 3 gun and IDPA DMG 3 gun. Tizzo, how large are the targets (standard USPSA targets?), and the few beyond 100 yds - how far do they go? I'm in same spot you are - trying to gather vital info before I spend any more money on AR. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Schmitt Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Tizzo, I am one of the guys who runs the MN 3 Gun Group that sets up the matches. That info may be correct for one of the ranges we use but you will be seeing 200 yard at the next match and depending on what we have for range use we will use the 400 yard at Minnetonka. You will more likely see 30 rounds under 25 yards. 25 in the 75 to 100 range and 20 in the 150 to 200 range. All dependant on getting a first shot hit of course. The presentation of those targets are about to get smaller as we aquire "skinny poppers". Stop out at Minnetonka Game and fish on Sat April 7 and check out the match. Send me an email at jay@mn3gungroup.org and I will set you up on the mailing list. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maka Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I recently got started with an AR-15, ended up with a LMT tactical rear sight and a Lyman 93 front sight, mounted at the end of an 20" barrel. Haven't found a better set of iron sights yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 20 in the 150 to 200 range. All dependant on getting a first shot hit of course. The presentation of those targets are about to get smaller as we aquire "skinny poppers". Jay, how large are those "skinny poppers"? Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Schmitt Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I don't know exactly. I think they are around 4 inches wide and 10 tall. I don't have any in hand. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technetium-99m Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 What's the barrel diameter out at the muzzle? If it's 0.750 you could stick a clamp on out there with a DPMS rear and run with it. I'd go this route before shooting a sub $200 scope/mount combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizzo Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 Well, I placed an order for the YHM sights. We'll see how it goes. Who knows if I'll get out to any matches this year... I've only shot the rifle with the Eotech the seller had on it so I have some learning to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 they are around 4 inches wide and 10 tall. And you shoot those at 200 yards? Wow. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuke8401 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 they are around 4 inches wide and 10 tall. And you shoot those at 200 yards?Wow. Jack 2 MOA at 200 yards is getten-er-done in 3 gun especially if you shoot a short sight radius gun with flip up irons and a fatty front post no less. If you fellas are knocking those down with regularity, I got to stay away from your club! David E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.Schmitt Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 no no no, I would not use them at 200 yards. We want people to come back to the matches. I am a subscriber to the 4moa target presentation minimum. I may push it to 120 but that would be about it. Tizzo, We allow eotechs in the limited/tac iron catagory. We are going along to get along with the national trend. If you would want to save money, send the irons back and shoot the eotech. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizzo Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 I don't have an eotech, the guy I bought the AR from let me shoot with his when I bought it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puma Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 The very best bang for your buck will be Primary Arm's Micro Dot. It will set you back less than $ 100.00. The quality is excellent. And just as important Primary Arms' customer service is second to none ! These people believe that customers are very important and also stand behing their products.They appreciate the business that you give them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike4045 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 You will still need a upper height gas block. They taller than most. I added one because I could not get zeroed. The sight didn't have enough elevation. I shoot irons for local stuff. But go to an Aimpoint for big matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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