light springs = frame damage?

[LGator]

Hello. After reading everyone's advice here on the forums I started playing with lighter spring weights a few months ago. After some experimenting I am now runnning a 12.5lb ISMI recoil spring and a 17lb ISMI mainspring in my Kimber 1911 with 170 PF loads.

I was discussing this with a fellow shooter after a match and he advised to use a heavier recoil spring to prevent frame damage. He joked that running a light spring is fine in a racegun if you don't mind buying a new one every few years.

Is there any truth to this? I understand that a lighter spring might pound the frame more, but enough to do serious damage to a quality forged steel frame?

On a semi-related note this gun doesn't seem to be as accurate as was before messing with springs. I had initially thought it was operator error, but I could have sworn it used to shoot tighter groups. Could this be a result of recoil pounding the frame more?

Thanks for the advice.

-Luther

[davidwiz]

You don't say if you're shooting a .45acp or a .40 S&W. 12.5# seems awfully light for a 5" Limited gun in either caliber. Most are in the 14# - 16# range. I'm running a 16# conventional spring in my 5" .40 As for frame damage, yea, it can occur, but probably after 10s of thousands of rounds. Spring weight also affects the gun's timing, both in unlocking/locking the barrel and in stripping a new round out of the mag and chambering it.

Spring weight shouldn't have any affect on accuracy. Try shooting groups off of a sandbag and see what happens. If still not good, have someone else shoot groups w/ it from the sand bag. If still not good, try different ammo. If still not good, either send it back to Kimber (they have a very good warranty/customer service) or have a compitent(sp?) gunsmith take a look at it. I've seen Kimbers that weren't throated properly from the factory and couldn't print on an IPSC target 15 yards away (Kimber fixed under warranty).

HTH,

-David

[Chuck D]

I use a 17 pound spring in my SV (45ACP). What I did was buy springs ranging from 15 to 18.5 pounds and install them with a Wilson Shok-Buff. I shot 50 rounds of match ammo thru the gun...took it apart...and inspected the Shok-Buff, the head of the guide rod and the frame, looking for signs of damage. With a 17 pound spring...the marks on the Shok-Buff are light and the frame/guiderod head showed no signs of "battering".

Guns are not cheap but the price of the proper weight recoil spring IS cheap.

Why damage the gun if you don't have to ?

[Jeeper]

I run a 10# in my 40 with a .090 buff. I havent had any problems

[LGator]

Sorry, forgot to mention this is a .45acp gun. I am not running a shok buff as they don't allow me to slingshot the slide on an IDPA slidelock reload. I did have one in for awhile, but the dust cover really cuts the buff apart and clogs the gun. I guess this spring combo is light but I know of lots of guys on this forum runnning even lighter setups.

I have tried shooting different loads off of sandbags and am having a rough time keeping them within a 12" group at 15 yards. I assumed it was the "indian, not the arrow" but I'll need to have someone else shoot it to confirm. Thanks.

-Luther

[Guest Larry Cazes]

Wow!.....12" group from a rest at 15 yards?? As long as you run a buffer with the light springs and keep it fresh, the damage due to frame battering should be minimal. Try a heite brand .090 buffer.

[Jack Suber]

I run an 11# or 12.5# recoil spring in my new STI and it works fine. I do use a shock buff if I am not running a Sprinco. I have used 10# springs but the 11# seems to be working the best. One thing you need to check is if the spring is binding during recoil. Check this by compressing the spring with the GR and the recoil plug. If the spring snags the recoil plug, then it needs to have some coils cut - I found 1 - 2 coils does the trick. My first Edge would not group worth a flip and then I discovered that the springs I was shooting were binding. I cut 2 coils and the accuracy was there. BTW, I run an 18# mainspring.

[JD45]

I shoot a Kimber Classic(.45) and use 200gr.SWCs at 168pf. With a Wolff 15lb. spring and one Wilson blue buff it seems to do okay. After 500rds. there is an imprint in the buff one-third of the way through, but since I always replace the buff before 1000rds. I've yet to see one chewed apart. I really don't know how much the lighter spring has helped me(it hasn't hurt), but if I if I put the old 20 pounders back in, I bet that I could'nt tell much differance. No frame damage yet.

[mcoliver]

I have a widebody in 40cal and used springs from 15# down to 10#. Majority (about 4k+ rounds) I used the 11#. I can see no discernable damage in the guide rod and frame using 175+ PF ammo and this gun isn't even one of the "better" brands.

One thing I've noticed when going down in the spring poundage is that the recoil flip in the wrists turns into a recoil slap to the hands. Initially, this slap caused me to flinch creating havoc in my ability to get good groups.

Now I'm back to 13# only because I can seem to time the gun better with this setup.

[Jasonub]

for my sv 40 its 12.5 ismi with 15 pound ismi hammer spring. cominolli frame saver tungsten rod. 10000 plus rounds and still no problems.

on my last ipsc pistol thats 45 acp it was a 15 pound wilson spring and a 17 pound wolff main spring. no problems with that set up either. berfore that it was a 10 pound recoil spring and a 19 pound cut main spring.

after 15000+ rounds of 178 pf frame cracked on the rail just above the where the slide stop hits the follower.

[BSeevers]

I was discussing this with a fellow shooter after a match and he advised to use a heavier recoil spring to prevent frame damage. He joked that running a light spring is fine in a racegun if you don't mind buying a new one every few years.

Does he mean replacing the spring every few years? I have well over 100K rounds with almost half at 175 PF on a Super with a 7 lb recoil spring. My Limited SV has a 10 lb but sees much lower use.

[Chuck D]

Boy you guys use some LIGHT springs!

So much for the "suggested spring weight chart" found on the second last page of any Wilson Combat catalog !

[EricW]

I know that Travis Tomasie uses a 10 lb spring. Anecdotally, I've heard/read that Matt Burkett uses a 10 lb spring.

If anybody's going to have a problem with frame/slide cracking - it's going to be guys like that who are blowing through 50K of ammo a year. I haven't heard of it happening so I doubt its a problem.

[bulm540]

a12.5# for me and 19# mainspring. Using 200 Grain .40 Zeros.

[.40AET]

I run the same setup as Jasonub with no problems. The gun has only seen about 17k rounds and I replace the shock buffs before they start to fall apart. If you're going to run a light spring, find a shock buff that works in your gun.

[Detlef]

I use a 10 lb (w/ 17 lb main spring) in my major .40 Para, no shock buff. about 50k rounds w/ no problem.

--Detlef

[Shipster]

In my Para 16-40 I run a 12.5 lb with a 17 lb main spring and love it.

Shipster

[LGator]

I run the same setup as Jasonub with no problems. The gun has only seen about 17k rounds and I replace the shock buffs before they start to fall apart. If you're going to run a light spring, find a shock buff that works in your gun.

Ok, I'll look into that again. I had a Cominolli buff in and destroyed it after 1000 rounds. I guess if you use one you need to change one as often as they suggest (haha, imagine that ). I had made a few .0625 buffs out of nylon/rubber but even they made it tough to drop the slide after an IDPA slide lock reload. Plus, ISMI suggested not running a buff and just running their springs for dependablity.

Does anyone make a buff around .050 inch thick?

Could a bad muzzle crown be my culprit? Using the same ammo my 4" 1911 is shooting better groups then my fullsize with bo-mars.

Thanks again.

-Luther

[Even]

I use a 10 lb (w/ 17 lb main spring) in my major .40 Para, no shock buff. about 50k rounds w/ no problem.

--Detlef

This is the same I use in my SV .40, 55k rounds without problems.

[.40AET]

I had made a few .0625 buffs out of nylon/rubber but even they made it tough to drop the slide after an IDPA slide lock reload

The magazines I have that are setup to lock the slide back, do so very well. You may want to check the slide travel to make sure that it is the same with and without the spring in place. If the slide travels less with the spring in place, then it may be binding. I have been running the same Cominolli guide rod and ISMI spring in 3 different guns. It seems to be the only thing that I want to keep.

[LGator]

I had made a few .0625 buffs out of nylon/rubber but even they made it tough to drop the slide after an IDPA slide lock reload

The magazines I have that are setup to lock the slide back, do so very well. You may want to check the slide travel to make sure that it is the same with and without the spring in place. If the slide travels less with the spring in place, then it may be binding. I have been running the same Cominolli guide rod and ISMI spring in 3 different guns. It seems to be the only thing that I want to keep.

That is a great point. Fortunatly the instructions with the ISMI springs tell you that this may need to be done and how to check spring fit. I needed to cut 1.5 coils off to get full slide travel. The slide will lock back, but releasing slide to go forward is very difficult with a buff installed.

Someone posted a while back that Kimber didn't make their slide latch cuts to JMB specs. It was mentioned that even a thin buff may prevent the slide from being able to be slingshot. I've come to realize this is true.

Thanks for the input.

-Luther

[Duane Thomas]

I use a 10-pound Wolff variable power recoil spring and 17-pound recoil spring with 170 pf loads in .45. No buff. No problems. I'll be the first to admit though that I bump it up to 14 pounds for factory hollowpoints.

[Harmon]

i use a 17 pound recoil spring and a 17 pound main spring in my 45, 170 Pf ammo, no buff and it shoots much softer for me than the 13 pound spring and a buff, with the correct weight of spring, you shoulnt need a buff. sometimes i think the slide slamming into the buff, or frame cause more muzzle flip. this makes the gun shoot like a seesaw. also i was never able to crank off a .11 split with the light springs in it. best i could get was .13 that tells me the heavier springs are faster.

no buff, standard weight spring, ajust your ammo to shoot the way you like...

its alot easier to build a load around a gun than to tune a gun around a load.

[DogmaDog]

I think it could be possible for the recoil spring to affect accuracy--if the gun is unlocking sooner, then maybe the barrel is tilting as the round leaves the muzzle.

I'd do some experimenting shooting groups with a lighter recoil spring and then with a heavier spring. If you get different results, and one spring produces better groups, use that.

DogmaDog

[blackdragon]

Most guns from the factory are way over sprung they want to make sure they feed out of the box, I run a 14# spring in mySpringfield 1911 45acp, thats after it was broken in, I also run a 11# spring in my .40cal. STI. I don't run a shok buff, because if you have ever had one come apart, your stage is over. " if it can break it will"