leewhiskey Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 First of all I would like to thank all the RO's, Kirk, Misty, Rob, and anyone else who worked hard all weekend. Big thanks to the sponsors as well, prize table was outstanding. I enjoyed some stages more than others but all of them were fun. I also enjoy seeing all the people I have met over the past couple years, that is half the fun for me. When I first got a look at 7 I knew it would start some discussion. Do I think it was difficult? Very. But that doesn't mean I think it shouldn't have been in the match. It just showed a lot of people they weren't very good at something that got put in a stage. It was not impossible, some shooters proved that. If it won or lost your match for you, welcome to what we as competitors have to accept and move on to do better next time. Come to think of it, I know there was a swinging bridge with pistol at Ozark (last year?) and a moving platform of some sort with rifle at CMMG (the past 2 years?) so, hard as it may be, we should have seen this coming.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrysuperhawk Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) 3 gun is supposed to be challenging...it is also supposed to be practical...shooting slugs at 60 yards from a swinging platform at targets of that size is in no way practical...so much so that if you look at the match book it was suppossed to be rifle...due to a backdrop issue it was changed to slugs from my understanding.... Either way...stages should be able to be completed by the majority of shooters in the time limits imposed...the best shooters will shine regardless...all that stage did is put unrealistic expectations on shooters new and experienced alike and dissapoint nine times out of ten....a course should definitely NOT be so hard that only 10% (and in this case I believe even that number is high) of shooters can shoot it penatly free or within time... That stage discouraged new people...I watched it...and listened when I saw them talking as if many others were gonna burn it down and they lacked skill or talent...Then I watched many in my squad, with many of the top finishers in the match, give the stage an honest effort and walk away disappointed as well...but we knew that was not because lack of skill...it was unrealistic accuracy expectations with a weapon platform not made for that level of accuracy...period...and its over with so I am moving on..but I can assure you I will never practice shooting slugs off a moving platform at 60 yards at 6 inch wide targets...I have more important things to improve on Jacob As a side note, there may or may not have been someone that gave it a go with 00 buckshot [not during the match] and had MUCH better results, as in cleaned the 6 targets, in the specified order, with 9 rounds from an un-choked gun. Edited September 12, 2012 by barrysuperhawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothandnail Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 The 10 second Failure to neutralize [or 5 second if Jesse gets his way] is apparently not enough of an incentive for some shooters to actually try to hit the targets as presented. That was why a cretain other major match enacted the infamous 100 second penalty on long range rifle targets last year. That wasn't a popular solution either. If we go with the 5 second FTN, then every single shooter on stage 6 could have run up to the roof, rattled off 10 shots as fast as possible and still broken about even on time. Why bother ever shooting any target longer than 100 yards again? Heck, why even bother with a nice optic even, I mean a $50 chicom knockoff is good enough for 100 yards, right? Those are extreme examples, but you see my point. I personally believe in setting the standard a bit higher, and if the result is a bit difficult, well, it wouldn't be 3 gun if it wasn't a challenge. As far as playing stump the chump, painting the rifle targets camoflauge at my own club matches was a very effective way for me to equalize between optic shooters and irons without running divisions and classes. Magnified optics tended to have a harder time finding the targets so they were effectively on equal footing with the iron shooters. When was the last time you saw that in a match? Creative stage design that requires shooters to exert effort is the best possible thing for this sport. Sometimes the execution goes a bit awry [rather like my explanations], but the concept is still valid. My controversial views aside, it was a great match, and as a RO, I think the competitors should get as much credit for making a match as we do. If the competitors don't come to shoot, there is no match, so thank you, each and every one of you. Thank you for traveling, for putting up with the weather, for putting up with the inevitable issues that crop up, for everything. The friends I make at these matches are worth more than anything that could be put on a prize table. DANG , as much as I hate to admit , you and I think a lot alike. :roflol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBets Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I would also like to say it was a great match with lots of hard work put in for our enjoyment...The prize table was awesome and I will definitely be attending again next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dink Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Are the results going to be put on the web site eventually? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistyDesha Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 The results are in the process of uploading to the website, and will be there shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latech15 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Since I am so good at playing the devil's advocate, here's my opinion on this. 3 gun is not a game for weaklings. It should be hard, because that is where the challenge is. This isn't uspsa where merely having an RO touch your target entitles you to a reshoot. Yeah, because having rules that make it fair and safe for everybody is for the weak. There were so many of your homemade rules that were broken with no consequence, that I won't even go into the common sense rules that were abandoned when this rule book was put together. Don't try and spin things to make it look different than it was. The guy who finger fu(%3d the target was an RO from another stage who was waiting his turn to shoot, he was not the RO nor the scorekeeper, from the stage in question. Besides that, two shooters before that the same thing happened. A target was pasted by another shooter and a mike was called before ANYBODY got a chance to see the target, not the shooter, not the RO, and not the scorekeeper. Is it weak to simply ask that you be able to SEE an unmolested target that you are being penalized on before the penalty is tacked on? Is it weak to ask that your run be scored fairly, your match be run fairly, and that you not be subjected to multiple guns pointed at you during the course of a match??? I guess I am just weak then. Hard and challenging is great, I welcome them. Unsafe, and unfair isn't hard or challenging, it is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveTimm Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Looks like the scores are up, Thanks Misty! Would it be possible for you to email or post the individual stage scores as well, maynbe asking too much but I would be interested in seeing how I did on the individual stages as well. We had to leave a little early so I didnt get a close look at the scores. I just wanted to thanks everyone, Kirk, Misty, ROs and volunteers who really put on a great match. I have noting but good things to say. I am interested in hearing the legal technique for the slug swing stage though. Wondering if you could put your feet down between shots? Thought about it after and can't remeber what the walk through said, I just sat down with my feet on the swing and shot but if I would have asked about putting my feet down in between to stabalize I would have done that. Mind games you say... My favorite stage, well I really had a few, I like 3 gun stages and usually prefer heavy pistol stages as that is one "strength" I would give myself even though its weak in the grand game compared to others. But, I really like the long stage and for me making the 400 yard hit was a real confidence builder. I know it was a large target but a year ago I'm not sure if I would have made it. I struggled in the past with long range rifle and now feel like I'm actually starting to get it. Slow process but I can't tell you how happy I am now that I can see that skill progressing. I also like the lake stage, stage 9 as it was pretty smooth for me even with some fumbles, stage 4 treated me ok too. Even the jungle run, which is a weakness as I am still learning to reload faster was a very well laid out stage. Nothing to intimidating and shots were nicely grouped where doubles or even triples could be taken and if you reloaded smooth you had a good time. I fumbled some loads and walked by a slug target so not my best stage. Definatly lost some points but I learned and again saw an improvement in my shooting and loading from last year or even recent matches. Overally again, great job and I has a lot of fun! I was on a great squad with some of the best folks in the game and industry. THe best part of 3 gun is people and no matter what, even the better and best shooters are always willing to give you advice even if its not in their favor. That is what makes this sport great is everyone wants everyone to shoot their best. We were also filming a TV episode for a regional sprting goods stores new TV series, this episode focused on 3 gun as we want to promote the shooting sports and community. Thanks again to everyone for working with us on that project. Allowing us to take time to do some interviews, after stage reactions, meet with folks, get input, was absoltely amazing and appreciated. So to those who were wondering who that camera crew was filming and what they were doing, that was it. I know several of you probably thought why are they filming that guys, he's not that fast :-). Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigfish73 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I just checked the website and I don't see any scores. Where are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrysuperhawk Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 The scores.. I just checked the website and I don't see any scores. Where are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistyDesha Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 If you click on the updates link off of the homepage, it will take you to the page with the link. If you have accessed the page frequenyly, you may need to clear your cache. I just checked the website and I don't see any scores. Where are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistyDesha Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 they have been out there for about 3 hours.v I just checked the website and I don't see any scores. Where are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleaay78 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I am interested in hearing the legal technique for the slug swing stage though. Wondering if you could put your feet down between shots? Thought about it after and can't remeber what the walk through said, I just sat down with my feet on the swing and shot but if I would have asked about putting my feet down in between to stabalize I would have done that. Mind games you say... I too would like to hear this. Squad 5 was told we could NOT touch the ground with after we fired our first slug shot. One MAJOR problem with stage 7 was that although the platform was included in the stage diagram, the rules specific to the platform were not mentioned in the written stage briefing. When I hear things like 'legal way to shoot it and minimize the swing' that make the shots basically the same difficulty as off-hand shots, my first thought is what was another squad allowed to do that we were not. Concise and consistent stage descriptions are crucial, especially on a stage like 7. Except for 7, the stages were fun, and the prize table was good. I'll be back next year. Thanks to the RO's and match staff for the hard work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmshozer1 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 The scores.. I just checked the website and I don't see any scores. Where are they? Even the scores are a challenge to read unless you lay on your side to read them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wdlong1 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 The scores.. I just checked the website and I don't see any scores. Where are they? Even the scores are a challenge to read unless you lay on your side to read them. If I were you I would just look at them as if reading them and your time will be the same with penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wideerhunter Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 When you open the scores, just right click and select rotate clockwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkleskiw Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Feet could not touch the ground while shooting, correct? Perhaps a shooter could have steadied with a foot on the ground then shot, steadied, shot, rinse and repeat? Who said you had to lay down? We had one guy shoot sitting with his legs hanging off the side and his feet dangling dangerously close to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bear Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 As a newcomer to 3 gun, I enjoyed gamming stages like stage 7. If I want to not think and just pull the trigger, I will go back to highpower shooting. Isn't the idea of this shooting sport doing what you have to do inside the rules that are set forth to finish with the quickest time? I had a blast at this match, like most all of the 3 gun matches I have shot. Great stages, unlike any I have experienced so far! I am interested in hearing the legal technique for the slug swing stage though. Wondering if you could put your feet down between shots? Thought about it after and can't remeber what the walk through said, I just sat down with my feet on the swing and shot but if I would have asked about putting my feet down in between to stabalize I would have done that. Mind games you say... I too would like to hear this. Squad 5 was told we could NOT touch the ground with after we fired our first slug shot. One MAJOR problem with stage 7 was that although the platform was included in the stage diagram, the rules specific to the platform were not mentioned in the written stage briefing. When I hear things like 'legal way to shoot it and minimize the swing' that make the shots basically the same difficulty as off-hand shots, my first thought is what was another squad allowed to do that we were not. Concise and consistent stage descriptions are crucial, especially on a stage like 7. Except for 7, the stages were fun, and the prize table was good. I'll be back next year. Thanks to the RO's and match staff for the hard work. When I shot it I did not touch the ground between shots or the Frame and chains. I sat in the middle left of the platform evenly distributing my weight on the chains and placing my shotgun near center. I sat on my knees and raised as high as I could under the frame. Have you ever tried to push a swing from the top? After it settled down from getting on it never moved again. Therefore all I had to do was shoot a 10" target at 55 yards. I took 10 shots but hit them all. When I say more mental han gamey I meant that simple physics in the understanding of how the swing works. I'm not trying to say anyone is ignorant. Just telling you my thought process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshF Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) We had one guy shoot sitting with his legs hanging off the side and his feet dangling dangerously close to the ground. dkleskiw and I were in the first squad to shoot this stage as well. So we were experimenting a lot and ran a lot of stuff across the RO's. I find the RO's may handle things different from stage to stage but they always seem to stick with it which I think makes it fair. I'd like to thank Kirk, Misty and crew as well for throwing a great match! This year's stages were solid with great improvements in trouble spots of the past. You can tell they are working to make a better match year after year and it keeps getting better. Also adding my addition to match videos! Edited September 12, 2012 by JoshF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Are the scores on the website the officially official final scores? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spd522 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Are the scores on the website the officially official final scores? Geesh, Jesse, Chill. You won either way. By the way, Good job. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothandnail Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) As a newcomer to 3 gun, I enjoyed gamming stages like stage 7. If I want to not think and just pull the trigger, I will go back to highpower shooting. Isn't the idea of this shooting sport doing what you have to do inside the rules that are set forth to finish with the quickest time? I had a blast at this match, like most all of the 3 gun matches I have shot. Great stages, unlike any I have experienced so far! I am interested in hearing the legal technique for the slug swing stage though. Wondering if you could put your feet down between shots? Thought about it after and can't remeber what the walk through said, I just sat down with my feet on the swing and shot but if I would have asked about putting my feet down in between to stabalize I would have done that. Mind games you say... I too would like to hear this. Squad 5 was told we could NOT touch the ground with after we fired our first slug shot. One MAJOR problem with stage 7 was that although the platform was included in the stage diagram, the rules specific to the platform were not mentioned in the written stage briefing. When I hear things like 'legal way to shoot it and minimize the swing' that make the shots basically the same difficulty as off-hand shots, my first thought is what was another squad allowed to do that we were not. Concise and consistent stage descriptions are crucial, especially on a stage like 7. Except for 7, the stages were fun, and the prize table was good. I'll be back next year. Thanks to the RO's and match staff for the hard work. When I shot it I did not touch the ground between shots or the Frame and chains. I sat in the middle left of the platform evenly distributing my weight on the chains and placing my shotgun near center. I sat on my knees and raised as high as I could under the frame. Have you ever tried to push a swing from the top? After it settled down from getting on it never moved again. Therefore all I had to do was shoot a 10" target at 55 yards. I took 10 shots but hit them all. When I say more mental han gamey I meant that simple physics in the understanding of how the swing works. I'm not trying to say anyone is ignorant. Just telling you my thought process. Say's the guy who hit the 400+yard target FIRST shot with an RO's G17? , and the flashers across the lake with a pistol as well. Kirk , THANKS for a GREAT match, it's ALWAYS a pleasure working with you! Edited September 12, 2012 by toothandnail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MistyDesha Posted September 12, 2012 Author Share Posted September 12, 2012 Yes, Jesse they are. Are the scores on the website the officially official final scores? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewj Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Will the raw times for each stage be posted as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigfish73 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 If you click on the updates link off of the homepage, it will take you to the page with the link. If you have accessed the page frequenyly, you may need to clear your cache. I just checked the website and I don't see any scores. Where are they? That's what happened. For some reason it would not clear. Even though I told it too. It decided to work this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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