Doug H. Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 That AKDAL does look pretty nice, but for those that have the Saiga's, it looks like the best bet for quick reloading is to get the aftermarket mag well and mags that appear to work AR style, any comments? And also how do you carry your mags in a match, and how many (I assume 2 would probably do it)? I'll stay out of the Saiga vs Akdal fight. I carry my Saiga mags in a 3 mag leg pouch from Thevestguy.com. He'll make one any way you want, I got mine in the 8 round size with no top flaps. I wanted the 12 rounders to stick out so I could grab them quick and it works like a champ. I found last week that my 20 rounder will fit in it too so I'm pretty happy with it and use it at every match. I have the clips on my mags as well but found that they had a tendency to come off my belt during vigorous movement so I use them infrequently. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Firebird's the place. Jim developed all of the parts last year and after many hard learned lessons about "sharing" with others, he is in the enviable position of having production parts being installed in builds as we speak. Everyone else gets to play catch up this time. Jeez....get over yourself. Tromix made the first custom AKDAL posts/parts on this board in May of 2011 and have been working on a slew of parts ever since. Just like Firebird. Tony Rumore Tromix OK, I'll play. I would like to order a complete fire control group, a grip adapter, a side charging forend, a bolt handle, and 8 10 round magazines. Please pm me for my CC # and address. You have these parts right????? But just to be clear, the facts speak for themselves. Firebird is the first to be shipping completed guns and has by far the most extensive parts list. Edited February 14, 2012 by smokshwn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Yeah, I'll stick with my Saiga for now. Seemed to work well enough for third at the Open Nats last year and 1st at the FB3G. I honestly can't imagine a better gun. It shoots incredibly fast. I had an issue with a soft piston that held me up a bit of last year. Now that it's replaced it's running 100%. Took a bit to get it 100% but I freaking love that gun. I'm sure the Akdal will be fine. I just haven't seen one run yet. If it's a thousand bucks cheaper than my Saiga and they can get it to run right I'll probably pick one up once I run my Saiga into the ground. Until then I'm happy to keep beating the Akdal shooters. And Craig, no offense to you or Jim or Tromix, but I think the gun actually needs to win a match before it can be declared as an anything killer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I'm still waiting for American made gun ready to go out of the box without having to do a bunch of stuff to them. In the mean time, I am invested in the Saiga platform and will continue to beat them apart, until something clearly better comes along. It helps that I am shooting more rifle/pistol matches and not as many 3 gun matches lately. The Akdal may be the ticket, but I want to see some high round count guns before I drop the $$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Yeah, I'll stick with my Saiga for now. Seemed to work well enough for third at the Open Nats last year and 1st at the FB3G. I honestly can't imagine a better gun. It shoots incredibly fast. I had an issue with a soft piston that held me up a bit of last year. Now that it's replaced it's running 100%. Took a bit to get it 100% but I freaking love that gun. I'm sure the Akdal will be fine. I just haven't seen one run yet. If it's a thousand bucks cheaper than my Saiga and they can get it to run right I'll probably pick one up once I run my Saiga into the ground. Until then I'm happy to keep beating the Akdal shooters. And Craig, no offense to you or Jim or Tromix, but I think the gun actually needs to win a match before it can be declared as an anything killer. THANK YOU! People are jumping ahead of themselves. Its one thing to support your sponsor and I understand that. Its another thing to buy the Koolaid hook line and sinker. I support the AKDAL because I want as many options out there as possible. But its way too soon to say how its going to do yet. I am not any more impressed with Turkish guns than I am russian ones from the quality control standpoint. A friend of mine bought a Turkish shotgun and the firing pin broke after a box of shells. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcman Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) I guess I'm going to come off as the oddball here (nothing new for me ), but I run my Saiga in open it has ran ANYTHING (Federal Bulk packs, Remington bulk packs, 20 year old shells, whatever) straight out of the box. The only thing I've changed on it was a CSS conversion kit which I did myself- all the gas system etc are straight from Russia. I do use SGM magazines plus a MD Arms drum. I also have a Tromix charging handle on all my Saigas. Mine has 3 ports and if someone was looking to buy one, I would check with the owner to see if the ports can be inspected. 2 ports, expect to have some work done. 3 and you're "probably" good to go. To be even more of an oddball, I load magazines on a closed bolt. I have no idea why people say this can't be done, it's the only way I go about it. Thus, I have not went the "rock and lock" or magwell option- see no need to do so, no time lost. All of that said to say this- you can have a Saiga that is competition/defensive ready with just a conversion kit done yourself. I paid $600 for the gun new, $158 for the conversion kit (kvar stock) and $20 for the Tromix charging handle. Less than $800(Then a boat load of funds in mags ) Now, to complete my oddballness- I also run a Saiga 223 in multigun, open class- with iron sights My shotguns and rifles will be staying Russian. Edited February 14, 2012 by sbcman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt1911 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 You guys go ahead and pump hundreds and hundreds of dollars into your Saigas that prove finicky, and AKDAL's which haven't proven themselves yet and don't have parts availability.... I'll stick with my Benelli M2 and walk with confidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 You guys go ahead and pump hundreds and hundreds of dollars into your Saigas that prove finicky, and AKDAL's which haven't proven themselves yet and don't have parts availability.... I'll stick with my Benelli M2 and walk with confidence Im actually selling both my Benelli's (Benny M2 already sold) and my Open M1 which will be listed tonight to fund a R&R Saiga. We'll see if I made a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt1911 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 You guys go ahead and pump hundreds and hundreds of dollars into your Saigas that prove finicky, and AKDAL's which haven't proven themselves yet and don't have parts availability.... I'll stick with my Benelli M2 and walk with confidence Im actually selling both my Benelli's (Benny M2 already sold) and my Open M1 which will be listed tonight to fund a R&R Saiga. We'll see if I made a mistake. Good luck to ya. One of the guys shooting our local 3 gun match did the exact same thing and had nothing but jams and misfeeds with his R&R Saiga. He ended up selling it and going back to a Benelli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcman Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 You guys go ahead and pump hundreds and hundreds of dollars into your Saigas that prove finicky, and AKDAL's which haven't proven themselves yet and don't have parts availability.... I'll stick with my Benelli M2 and walk with confidence Im actually selling both my Benelli's (Benny M2 already sold) and my Open M1 which will be listed tonight to fund a R&R Saiga. We'll see if I made a mistake. Good luck to ya. One of the guys shooting our local 3 gun match did the exact same thing and had nothing but jams and misfeeds with his R&R Saiga. He ended up selling it and going back to a Benelli. I handled a Benelli the other day- so lite and smooooooth on the bolt. My next shotgun shall be one, and I'll run it in tactical irons, but in open I'll be keeping my Saiga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) While waiting to get some parts for my S12, I picked up an M2. Both projects are now complete (except bolt mods on the M2) and what I consider reliable. As they sit right now, the M2 has ~$600 more in it than the S12. It did take some time and money but my S12 eats anything except Winchester Universal. It takes 2-5 rounds to adjust the gas system for a new type of ammo, then it runs like a champ. Have not felt the need for an aftermarket mag well. Just to be honest, the M2 did run anything right out of the box. I will say that the Saiga does get some points over the Akdal for having metal in its receiver.... Edited February 15, 2012 by Ragnar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) I say we ban all magazine fed shotguns across the board. limited should be pump, and open should be auto. No sticks, no revolving magazines. just 10+1 in the gun and tube fed with sausage fingers for open, and 8+1 rounds and a pump for limited and tactical. Go doggie, now that would simplify things a bit. Edited February 14, 2012 by Stlhead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Vigilante Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 And on the same note we should ban all Open Pistols and confine the open class to Semi-automatics with a magazine limit of 10!! I could go on and on but won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 And also how do you carry your mags in a match, and how many (I assume 2 would probably do it)? Vest: http://sinistralrifleman.com/2011/04/25/3gun-trooper-vest/ How to load on a closed bolt without a magwell: http://sinistralrifleman.com/2011/05/02/how-to-load-a-saiga-12-on-a-closed-bolt/ Saiga-12 Saga: http://sinistralrifleman.com/2012/02/01/the-saiga-12-saga/ You guys go ahead and pump hundreds and hundreds of dollars into your Saigas that prove finicky, and AKDAL's which haven't proven themselves yet and don't have parts availability.... I'll stick with my Benelli M2 and walk with confidence If you're talking about Open with your Benelli: the fumble factor with tec-loaders can't be ignored. Also loading 10-12 at a time with a magazine vs 4-6 with a tecloader. Its all a gamble, just gotta decide what odds you want to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentG Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I say we ban all magazine fed shotguns across the board. limited should be pump, and open should be auto. No sticks, no revolving magazines. just 10+1 in the gun and tube fed with sausage fingers for open, and 8+1 rounds and a pump for limited and tactical. Go doggie, now that would simplify things a bit. Lets just get a set of chaps and shoot cowboy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I was with you right up until you brought in the chaps. I am always in for a bit of humor, but you have taken it too far with the chaps comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt1911 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 If you're talking about Open with your Benelli: the fumble factor with tec-loaders can't be ignored. Also loading 10-12 at a time with a magazine vs 4-6 with a tecloader. Its all a gamble, just gotta decide what odds you want to play. Exactly. It's a gamble either way... fumble with tec-loaders, or fumble with clearing jams. Either way you go about it, the clock behind you is still ticking away so be confident in your equipment and practice thouroughly with the ammo you plan to use before going into a match. Ammo alone has bitten me in the ass during competition before and it aint fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 You guys go ahead and pump hundreds and hundreds of dollars into your Saigas that prove finicky, and AKDAL's which haven't proven themselves yet and don't have parts availability.... I'll stick with my Benelli M2 and walk with confidence I have litterally stomped many a shooters using old technology in open that had greater skills but could not keep up because I was running an R&R Saiga. If your friend is having a problem he should contact Rob and he will make it right. Rather its teh Saiga or the AKDAL or something similar mag fed shotguns are here to stay and will dominate. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt1911 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 You guys go ahead and pump hundreds and hundreds of dollars into your Saigas that prove finicky, and AKDAL's which haven't proven themselves yet and don't have parts availability.... I'll stick with my Benelli M2 and walk with confidence I have litterally stomped many a shooters using old technology in open that had greater skills but could not keep up because I was running an R&R Saiga. If your friend is having a problem he should contact Rob and he will make it right. Rather its teh Saiga or the AKDAL or something similar mag fed shotguns are here to stay and will dominate. Pat I'm not at all saying they're not here to stay or that they will eventually dominate. I'm just saying it's not there just yet (for the most part) so I'll let you guys do the T&E on em and I'll save my money for more bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 You guys go ahead and pump hundreds and hundreds of dollars into your Saigas that prove finicky, and AKDAL's which haven't proven themselves yet and don't have parts availability.... I'll stick with my Benelli M2 and walk with confidence I have litterally stomped many a shooters using old technology in open that had greater skills but could not keep up because I was running an R&R Saiga. If your friend is having a problem he should contact Rob and he will make it right. Rather its teh Saiga or the AKDAL or something similar mag fed shotguns are here to stay and will dominate. Pat I'm not at all saying they're not here to stay or that they will eventually dominate. I'm just saying it's not there just yet (for the most part) so I'll let you guys do the T&E on em and I'll save my money for more bullets. I will say they have a high learning curve. I had issues with my R&R at first. When I switched to Remington STS hulls and Winchester AA hulls things improved dramatically. Then I started changing the recoil spring every 300 rounds and not its pretty much flawless. Not stake your life on dependability yet. But I trust it for three gun. Rob at R&R will stands behind his products your friend should give him a call. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt1911 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I'll pass the word along. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I'll pass the word along. Thanks. I had quite the learning curve with mine. When I first got it it was about 99% reliable but when it did malfucntion it was a doozy. (by 99 I mean 1 malf per 100 shells) What ended up happening was the shell was getting deformed while it was in the chambering process and it was hard to clear this malfunction. I talked to Rob about it and he recommened some different ammo. I was using Estate and the hulls are a softer plastic that deforms more easily. Once I switched to AA Hulls and Remington STS (gold hulls) the problem went away. As time went on I started to get more failures to feed which was just where no rund made it from the magazine to the chamber. It was easy to clear (just rack the bolt) but annoying. I talked to Rob about it and he asked me when I had changed the recoil spring last. (he uses a hybrid system that uses the original spring and a 1911 spring together) Anyway I had not changed it. I put in a new recoil spring and the problems went away. What I believe was happening was the bolt was out running the magazine and coult not feed the round fast enough. This was the opposite of what I thought was happening (not enough gas). The last several matches I have ran it without any problems I also let other shooters use it as well with good luck. The only serious problem I had was when the gun started to double. I took it apart and found the disconnector was beat to death and I replaced it with no more issues. One of my first matches with it where it did hurt me in my placing was because the Red dot had come loose inside the mount and I had no idea where I was hitting on the texas star. I ran out of ammo. (shooter error should have just moved on). I realized what was wrong after the match. I really like my R&R Saiga even though it has taken a little effort to learn it well. That said it has gained me such an advantage over tube fed shotgun shooters with speed loaders it has been worth it. I noticed they have started making shorter stages at their matches with shotguns. Lol. Now the stock guns are crap. I have seen nearly all of them have serious issues at match. Its kind of funny when someone sees me win with my R&R and then go out and get a stock Saiga and wonder why its not working. These guns are not to the standard of american or european makers. What I really would like is to see Benelli or FN make a magazine fed shotgun. That would be great! One thing I do not like about the Saiga is the lack of spare parts. I purchased a stock gun from a friend as a parts gun. Pat Edited February 16, 2012 by Alaskapopo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbcman Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 You guys go ahead and pump hundreds and hundreds of dollars into your Saigas that prove finicky, and AKDAL's which haven't proven themselves yet and don't have parts availability.... I'll stick with my Benelli M2 and walk with confidence I have litterally stomped many a shooters... Dang! Three gun must be HARDCORE where you're at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 You guys go ahead and pump hundreds and hundreds of dollars into your Saigas that prove finicky, and AKDAL's which haven't proven themselves yet and don't have parts availability.... I'll stick with my Benelli M2 and walk with confidence I have litterally stomped many a shooters... Dang! Three gun must be HARDCORE where you're at Sorry did not mean to be rude. Was just saying my Saiga has allowed me to beat a master class shooter on a shotgun stage with lots of rounds fired. Not because I shot better but rather because I could reload so easily. I use a coupled mag and its so fast. Most of the guys up here in open are older guys using Remington 1100's with speedloaders. A few of them got the X-rail for outlaw matches. But it was still easy to best them on shotgun stages. A few guys are threatening to get their own Saiga's from R&R and then I will be put back down in my place on shotgun stages. pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt1911 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I think he was being a smartass about you saying you "stomped" many shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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