Introducing PractiScore

[Ken N.]

...

This error compounded to slow down the start of the arbitration period because, at the time, we had to go to ezWS for the final scoring. Unfortunately, Palm -> ezWS has some issues - like not handing DQs, so we had to manually find them twice in ezWS (taking time). This wasn't a problem with 40 or 50 competitors. But with 400+, it took a bit of time, not much, but when everybody is waiting/watching, an eternity. )-:

Going forward we were instructed that we had approval to just use PS for the arb printouts/final scores.

That would have saved a decent chunk of time, letting us defer the ezWS export to the classifier/activity reports.

...

As a general practice, I save up the DQ's and PF changes for the end of the match after the last merge. (I'm speaking from a ezws paper match standpoint, but think it could work in PS as well.) I would say a good practice to get into is to have the RM bring the paper "scoresheet" showing the DQ to the chief stats officer, where he/she deposits it in what I call the "hassle folder", which you would then apply in ezws and/or ps after the last synchs and export/import into ezws. Don't even DQ the competitor in the stage units; you don't really need to. I also put PF scoresheets from the chronograph in the hassle folder for those who didn't make their declared PF and apply those at the end. (You only want the exceptions from the chronograph; not all the paper for the 99.5% of folks who chrono'ed successfully.)

I'd also like to see a "missing scoresheets (sic)" report in PS. Totally useless for stage units, but I think it would be very useful in the master unit receiving the synchs. An additional benefit from that would come when chronoman shows up at the end with his list of people who didn't go to the chronograph. If your missing scoresheets report shows Joe Shooter didn't shoot stages 1-12, then he didn't shoot at all. If he did shoot some stages, look in the hassle folder as described above for a DQ sheet, else he no-showed the chrono and gets deleted from the match.

Also maybe we need a list of competitors by squad number which is printed and sent to the stages, RM, and MD. (Damn: air-print capable printers could become important all of a sudden.) And a list a competitors by name showing class, division, PF, categories, etc, for posting so people can check their particulars. Else you have to go back to ezws to produce those.

Good tips Bill. We did similar.

PS has a missing scoresheets report underway. We know we need it.

Also missing, and something we encountered at this match, was the "Additional penalties". This was needed to score a shooter who we accomodated a physical issue and then took a 20% deduction for it. We will add that right way.

Squad reports and competitor reports are also on our very short list based on this experience. We provided them, but out of our registration database, not PractiScore.

[wgnoyes]

20%? Ooo, you all hammered him! Usually we just give him a single -10 or sometimes nothing at all depending on the circumstances. You have the choice in the rulebook, so I suggest you make it flexible as possible, as in just key in a number instead of doing roller dials or trying to calculate 20%.

[Ken N.]

20%? Ooo, you all hammered him! Usually we just give him a single -10 or sometimes nothing at all depending on the circumstances. You have the choice in the rulebook, so I suggest you make it flexible as possible, as in just key in a number instead of doing roller dials or trying to calculate 20%.

The RM set the 20%. The accommodation was major, I was surprised at the penalty but it made sense on the stage.

We figured we'd just have a numeric entry box, and then a % or Points, choice. The software can calculate the % value easily enough.

Ken N.

[Graham Smith]

Given that this thread is now up to 15 pages, you might want to start breaking out separate threads on separate topics.

Squadding... I've been thinking about this and almost everything can be preloaded into the units before the start of the match excepting for walk-ons and squadding. Squadding might be the most time consuming, but it occurs to me that there might be a shortcut. I repeat - MIGHT be... Under some circumstances... depending on... YMMV...

IF everyone could be entered into PractiScore under a dummy Squad number (0 or 9 or something) and if there was going to be one device per squad, then on the squad one device, only the people in that squad would have their number changed from Dummy# to 1. On the squad 2 device, change just those people from Dummy# to 2. It would mean that several people could work on getting the squadding done rather than just one person updating a master list.

[Jim Norman]

Graham, The downside would be that if the device were to crash, that squad is gone, that is why we use one device per stage, or at times two devices per stage, but the device is tied to the stage. A device crashes, gets stepped on, reset or hit by lightning, only that stage goes away and it goes away for everyone. If you are keeping a paper back-up of each shooter as the match progresses, you can also easily rebuild the lost stage. If however a squad is on one device only and as is common at a Level One, no paper back-up is kept, they are screwed.

[Alan Adamson]

I guess I'll let the cat out of the bag.... AND THIS IS NO DING ON KEN's TEAM.... But until they roll out their web version, I used SSI (Shootnscoreit.com) to online register, squad and then import to PS and EZWS (including squads). Then PS to score, push to PS.com and bring back into EZWS for uspsa.

It was actually much easier than I thought it would be. NOTE, it did take me to create one perl script to build the EZWS squad import file from the SSI data, but it was actually easier than I thought. And now with the IOS version supported classification updates, this is getting even easier.

I'll try to document that process as well, and the associated, "ok, you have it in SSI, what do you do with it now", from a process standpoint the day of match. There was some learning that we identified that should make the next even flow even faster.

As a note, it was a 40+ match and I had 33 of them registered online by the night before the match!!! Looking back on it, it worked awesome...and with some process tweaks during the *sign the waiver, and take the money* process, we know we can streamline even more.

Alan

[Ken N.]

I guess I'll let the cat out of the bag.... AND THIS IS NO DING ON KEN's TEAM.... But until they roll out their web version, I used SSI (Shootnscoreit.com) to online register, squad and then import to PS and EZWS (including squads). Then PS to score, push to PS.com and bring back into EZWS for uspsa.

It was actually much easier than I thought it would be. NOTE, it did take me to create one perl script to build the EZWS squad import file from the SSI data, but it was actually easier than I thought. And now with the IOS version supported classification updates, this is getting even easier.

I'll try to document that process as well, and the associated, "ok, you have it in SSI, what do you do with it now", from a process standpoint the day of match. There was some learning that we identified that should make the next even flow even faster.

As a note, it was a 40+ match and I had 33 of them registered online by the night before the match!!! Looking back on it, it worked awesome...and with some process tweaks during the *sign the waiver, and take the money* process, we know we can streamline even more.

Alan

I'm pleased it worked well. We intend on direct support for SSI. We are pleased with what they do and want to help them succeed.

We do, also, intend an online interface longer term. But we are committed to working with any online systems out their, including the USPSA existing one, SSI, and the other one that I can't remember the name of right now because I'm totally burned out from running A1 the last 5 days, and building it the last month. (-:

Ken N.

[wgnoyes]

Graham, The downside would be that if the device were to crash, that squad is gone, that is why we use one device per stage, or at times two devices per stage, but the device is tied to the stage....

So between stages, the squad takes the unit back to synch with either the master or a roving stats guy. Same concept as bringing scoresheets back to stats after you finish one stage and go on to the next. If you go the whole day without synching back to SOMEWHERE, you're booking one! First Law of Systems Programming: Back it up before you screw with it!

[Alan Adamson]

Graham, The downside would be that if the device were to crash, that squad is gone, that is why we use one device per stage, or at times two devices per stage, but the device is tied to the stage....

So between stages, the squad takes the unit back to synch with either the master or a roving stats guy. Same concept as bringing scoresheets back to stats after you finish one stage and go on to the next. If you go the whole day without synching back to SOMEWHERE, you're booking one! First Law of Systems Programming: Back it up before you screw with it!

And to Bills point... With the largish matches that we are working with (so far 107 shooters, 7 stages, 7 squads), all scored with PS. We are working to have the following

- bay wide wifi (does not have to have internet)

- 1 master unit, usually an IPAD because it has a feature that the Android platform doesn't at the moment, you can load the scores direct to the PS.com site

- at least 2 backup units incase of equipment challenges - these can be swapped in at anytime as needed.

- 2 of us doing backups (syncs) and it works as follows.

- we use a Wifi device that will allow us to assign a specific IP address to a specific mac address (device). This allows the device to have the same sync code - always

- at the original sync of shooters, stages, etc. We write down each devices sync code.

- now when one or the other of us finishes shooting a stage, we walk back to our Sync device, and go through the list, syncing the other devices, this is a back ground task on the devices so they don't even know it's happening

- now we have all the devices synced and a snapshot of the match overall on our sync devices.

- we repeat the above after each time we finish shooting a stage.

We are also in the process of trying a slight change. It used to be that we handed out a device and it stayed with the squad, but this last match, we had the squads leave the devices in the stages. This allows one advantage.... If for some reason you have change the definition of the stage, you only have to do that on one device.... However it adds a challenge if you had a walk up shooter that is shooting in one of the squads, you'd have to enter them on each of the devices as you moved through the match.... We'll have to see which outweighs the other.

Alan

[euxx]

We intend on direct support for SSI. We are pleased with what they do and want to help them succeed.

We do, also, intend an online interface longer term. But we are committed to working with any online systems out their, including the USPSA existing one, SSI, and the other one that I can't remember the name of right now because I'm totally burned out from running A1 the last 5 days, and building it the last month. (-:

It took me couple hours to integrate PractiScore with online registration system used by IPSC Ontario using PS match import/export file. Though it would be great if PS for Android recognized *.psc files downloaded from the web site and offer to open them in PractiScore right away.

Also, I am eagerly waiting support of custom divisions, so I won't have to do some "creative" mapping between IPSC and USPSA divisions when moving between online registration system, PractiScore and WinMSS.

[euxx]

Here is another idea that could help those who may not have luxury of having multiple backup units or can't setup wifi at the range.

Most Android devices have a removable SD or MicroSD cards, so it would be great if PractiScore periodically saved current match results up there with md5 checkup to allow to verify file integrity. When given device go South, one could remove an SD card and put it into a working unit, so it would sync up the latest intact backup from the card.

[DonovanM]

Just as a heads up, today's Woot is an Android tablet for $60. Maybe a good set up for running Practiscore?

[Skydiver]

Just as a heads up, today's Woot is an Android tablet for $60. Maybe a good set up for running Practiscore?

Nice price, but apparently the MIPS processor is a major bottleneck making it a slow device.

[mackey]

thanks

[Mark R]

The local Best Buy store now has Nook Simple Touches for $80 new.

[wgnoyes]

...However it adds a challenge if you had a walk up shooter that is shooting in one of the squads, you'd have to enter them on each of the devices as you moved through the match.... We'll have to see which outweighs the other.

Boris is allowing walkups?

[sarnburg]

We used PractiScore for the first time last night at our weekly USPSA match. This was the first foray into electronic scoring for our club. The program worked FANTASTIC!

The transition from PS to EzWIn was a little difficult, but now that we have done it once it will go much smother going forward.

The email answers from Ken @10PM CST was a Huge help also.

We used an IPAD for each squad with a WiFi router set up to give us connectivity. The scores were done before the stages cleaned up. We were able to handle late arrivals and squad changes with no problems. PractiScore is very user friendly and intuitive.

Overall I am very impressed. It has removed a ton of the work from scoring a match.

Scott Arnburg

[centermass]

Just as a heads up, today's Woot is an Android tablet for $60. Maybe a good set up for running Practiscore?

Nice price, but apparently the MIPS processor is a major bottleneck making it a slow device.

Slow for what application though?... sure running streaming audio/video, or wifi browsing perhaps, but if only running Practiscore shouldn't slow it down too much. CNET gave it 3/5 stars, downgrading mostly on poor screen resolution and bulky for a 7" tablet.

[cellguy030]

In a perfect world, instead of handing the shooter a piece of paper at the end of the stage, you would push his results to his droid/ipad. I know this won't work for every shooter, and it probably requires quite a bit of work logistically, but it would be a nice feature long term.

Concur.

Perhaps, initially, we could have a backup mode to the cloud. If it worked, great. If not it would show the summary and request it be written down.

The cloud could then text it, post a log, do other things as backups.

Ken N.

Haven't finished reading the whole thread yet but my suggestion to prevent data loss would possibly be for a device designated as the master to automatically sync in the background Every one to two minutes... This would not require web access at the facility.

also liked someone's idea about a monitor posting real time standings!

[cellguy030]

East Alabama Gun Club is moving this direction very soon. I have a couple of Simple Touch, an IPAD, an IPOD Touch, an Android Phone, and a Samsung Galaxy 10.1 Tablet to play with. All work fine. We are trending toward the IPOD Touch, But my problem with it compared to the Simple Touch, the the Size. If buying new equipment, there are several Android offerings in a larger form factor, at the same price point, for example this Samsung Galaxy 5.0

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Samsung+-+Galaxy+Player+5.0+with+8GB+Memory+-+White/3521682.p?id=1218407827059&skuId=3521682

I would be interested in hearing from anyone that is using some of these mid-sized devices. The IPAD and Samsung 10.1 are too expensive, and probably larger than necessary, but I find the Android phone and IPhone/IPOD Touch size devices a little small. I am thinking that the mid-sized devices might fill the void better. The Simple Touch size is good, the battery life is good, but the heating problem and the wet weather issues make me wonder about it as a good option. Especially interested in the systems that do not have to be rooted....

Mark K

Might b a little pricy but the wifi only 8 inch xyboards are some what

Weather resistant

[cellguy030]

We used PractiScore for the first time last night at our weekly USPSA match. This was the first foray into electronic scoring for our club. The program worked FANTASTIC!

The transition from PS to EzWIn was a little difficult, but now that we have done it once it will go much smother going forward.

The email answers from Ken @10PM CST was a Huge help also.

We used an IPAD for each squad with a WiFi router set up to give us connectivity. The scores were done before the stages cleaned up. We were able to handle late arrivals and squad changes with no problems. PractiScore is very user friendly and intuitive.

Overall I am very impressed. It has removed a ton of the work from scoring a match.

Scott Arnburg

Agreed! Thanks very much to Ken for being johnny on the spot!

We ran about 3 shooters thru before we tossed the paper and clip boards!

For anyone on the fence.... Go for it

Andrew

[cellguy030]

So one of the big concerns for everyone is the paper copy... After our first match last night went so well and we decided to scrap the paper backup right away, i spent quite a bit of time today fiddling with a way to print shooter results with little hassle.

I have a somewhat ok way of doing this if you are interested although it takes a little learning and planning ahead.

bear in mind this is my first attempt at this and I will be continuing to look for a better way.

this requires one of two things, either a ePrint enabled printer or a google cloud print enabled printer (or alternatively any printer hooked to a pc running google chrome)

the process basically entails that once the shooters score is entered, you can hit review score and then take a screen shot of the score. then go out to the gallery and print the screen shot.

the result looks like this

the process for screen capture is different per brand of device, on ipad instructions here

on android it differs based on version and brand.

thoughts?

[wgnoyes]

On all iOS devices (iphones, ipads, ipod touches), pressing the home button and the power button at the top simultaneously and letting go will snap a picture of ANYTHING that is on the screen.

[Ken N.]

thoughts?

Cool. That looks good.

I've been researching printing approaches for some time now. It is solvable now using techniques like you did - a WiFi airport printer or Google Print Cloud, for example. They do require consistent range wide WiFi, which can be hard to achieve. Or it requires bay by bay WiFi, which is easy but can be expensive adding up routers, batteries, and printers. Also, there are currently no AirPrint thermal or mobile printers. I expect that will change. Well, scratch that, there is a newly announced one from Zebra but it is north of $600, and I'm not going to spring for 12 of those + 2 backups for an Area match.

I'm looking into a compromise, where we use wifi->rs232 adapters on $50 thermal printers, and then connect to them via adhoc connectivity. This provides a $100 printing solution per bay, if it works.

I'll keep you posted.

In the interim, we wait for AirPrint/iOS Bluetooth enabled printers, or require tight WiFi on each bay.

We are also looking at replacing, optionally, the score summary with a hex code that is simple/quick to write and can be used to recreate any score. It wouldn't human understandable but if presented with it the score could be verified. It could also be entered into a website, or mobile phone, or PractiScore and the actual hits shown. This would be quick to write, less error prone, with the main problem being the shooter can't look at it and know what it means.

Regards,

Ken N.

TY64062

[euxx]

...We are also looking at replacing, optionally, the score summary with a hex code that is simple/quick to write and can be used to recreate any score...

Hmm. You can also show a QR Code and competitor can take a picture of it using his own cell phone.