Introducing PractiScore

[Jeanjacket]

If I already have a master database registration.txt with a given set of names, and I want to import more names from another master database registration.txt that may have duplicates, but will have some new, how will PractiScore handle this?

Will it merge and keep only new names? Will it create duplicates? Or will it replace the old master with the new, losing any names from the previous?

[wgnoyes]

I updated my auto-complete database with an updated version of the same masternames.db and he replaces stuff that already exists and adds stuff that doesn't. So if you bring in some other completely different masternames, I think he'll merge them together. But wait for Ken to answer that question, or contact him directly at his email address on practiscore.com.

[wgnoyes]

East Alabama Gun Club is moving this direction very soon. I have a couple of Simple Touch, an IPAD, an IPOD Touch, an Android Phone, and a Samsung Galaxy 10.1 Tablet to play with. All work fine. We are trending toward the IPOD Touch, But my problem with it compared to the Simple Touch, the the Size. If buying new equipment, there are several Android offerings in a larger form factor, at the same price point, for example this Samsung Galaxy 5.0

Do you have to root this one? How long does the battery carry you?

[jcwren]

East Alabama Gun Club is moving this direction very soon. I have a couple of Simple Touch, an IPAD, an IPOD Touch, an Android Phone, and a Samsung Galaxy 10.1 Tablet to play with. All work fine. We are trending toward the IPOD Touch, But my problem with it compared to the Simple Touch, the the Size. If buying new equipment, there are several Android offerings in a larger form factor, at the same price point, for example this Samsung Galaxy 5.0

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Samsung+-+Galaxy+Player+5.0+with+8GB+Memory+-+White/3521682.p?id=1218407827059&skuId=3521682

I would be interested in hearing from anyone that is using some of these mid-sized devices. The IPAD and Samsung 10.1 are too expensive, and probably larger than necessary, but I find the Android and IPhone/IPOD Touch size devices a little small. I am thinking that the mid-sized devices might fill the void better. The Simple Touch size is good, the battery life is good, but the heating problem and the wet weather issues make me wonder about it as a good option. Especially interested in the systems that do not have to be rooted....

Mark K

The two issues to worry about are: 1) Is it sunlight readable? 2) Can you read it with polarized shooting glasses on? The iPad (at least, mine) goes unreadable when wearing polarized glasses, and you're not using it in landscape mode.

--jc

[Ken N.]

I updated my auto-complete database with an updated version of the same masternames.db and he replaces stuff that already exists and adds stuff that doesn't. So if you bring in some other completely different masternames, I think he'll merge them together. But wait for Ken to answer that question, or contact him directly at his email address on practiscore.com.

for the master db it will replace any matching entries and add new ones. A matching entry will have matching uspsa number. If no uspsa number or pending it will match on first and last name.

Ken N.

[Jeanjacket]

Used PractiScore for a weekly match last night and everything went amazingly well. No hiccups, and everyone seemed to absolutely love how easy it was to use. In fact, the only thing that was slowing us down was the paper backups we were keeping. Went back today in the afternoon to upload via EzWinScore, followed all the instructions on the support page, and it only took 5-10 minutes to get scores up on USPSA.org -- and that includes reading instructions, emailing match/stage/score files to myself, and the rest. It's gonna take about 1-2 minutes next time and that's just phenomenal. I can't help but repeat to myself while using it that "this is the future" of USPSA scoring.

Here's a question of efficiency posed to anyone:

In ages long past when we used only paper scoresheets (last week), shooting order in the squads would first be a random order of the shooters. For every subsequent stage, we'd simply move the shooter who was first on the last stage to the back and the person who was second on the last stage would now be first on the current stage.

Example: [Letters stand for different shooters]

Stage 1 Order = ABCDEF;

Stage 2 = BCDEFA;

Stage 3 = CDEFAB; and so forth.

Among a multitude of features, one that I do like about PractiScore is the ability to easily randomize the shooting order for every stage. The only issue with this arises when also scoring on paper. Let's say I had shooters in order ABCDEF to start, with the paper scoresheets in the same order. On the next stage, I re-randomize shooting order yielding CBEFAD. Now I have to rearrange every single scoresheet to that order which can be time consuming and focus-stealing with larger squads.

Now I know instead of per-person individual scoresheets I can simply use a summary scoresheet with several lines on it such as the ones up on the PractiScore site: like this. But I'm wondering how to keep that organized as well with randomly writing names up as they appear in random order... Anyone have a "system" for this?

Or should I simply stop re-randomizing and stick with the old order system, and just remember my place in practiscore?

Also for those of you keeping paper, are the paper scorer and the digital scorer the same person or different?

Since I was only noting TOTAL hits and time on paper, I found this easy to do by myself along with Practiscore. I'd enter time and score targets with PS, hit "review score" and voila, just copy all totals to paper in a few seconds.

Honestly these questions would be a non-issue if I was not keeping paper backupes. I'm hoping to have enough trust in this app to not even have a paper backup at some point. Don't know what my threshold will be for when I decide to ditch the paper, but I aim to get there at some point.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Jeanjacket

[Ken N.]

I stopped using paper backup for club matches about a year ago. We still use it at L2/L3 matches (required).

If using paper, the simplest way is to use the multi-shooter paper backups - with 10 or 15 shooters on a single page. Then just write their name on the line, and their summary. Very quick. It was the model I used when first starting up PractiScore.

We are adding a randomize, and then shift up or down shooting order feature to PractiScore... but after Area 1, which is currently consuming our programming time tweaking / testing to make sure all goes well. So look for that in May sometime.

Regards,

Ken N.

[Skydiver]

The system that worked well for our squad with the paper backup was. While walking to the next stage, the scorekeeper would press the randomize button 3 times. Once at the stage, somebody would read the stage briefing, the shooting order would get read out from the device, and often the last few people in the shooting order would grab the timer, the device, and the paper back sheets. As the walkthrough time period winds down, the paper sheets get rearranged to the shooting order so that people can can walk up to the table and see the shooting order without having to bug the current scorekeeper.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Skydiver

[Skydiver]

For now, I would recommend:

Option A: Do ALL the registrations on the master device and push out to squads as per the Support page;

Option B: Do ALL the registrations in EzWinScore, push to the master, and then to the squads; or

Option C: Do per squad registration, and let those bubble back up to the master

Let me urge people to use Option B with caution for now*. Going this route will have your Single Stack shooters tagged as L10 shooters on the devices. Normally, this not a problem if you get ALL the registrations done inside EzWinScore, because EzWinScore will remember that these are really Single Stack shooters.

The problem which will happen is if you attempt to register latecomers as walk-ins on the devices. When you try to bring those late shooters back into EzWinScore, and if you opt to clear your presently registered shooters inside EzWinScore, then obviously those Single Stack shooters will now be registered as L10 shooters.

There maybe a problem as well if somebody opts to post results directly to PractiScore.com from a device because those shooters obviously will also be lumped in with the real L-10 shooters.

*I said "for now" above because Rob and Roger have fix in the upcoming update to EzWinScore that should have the correct divisions if it knows it is exporting to the newer PractiScore (as opposed to the older Palm).

With EzWinScore v4.09, Option B is a viable workflow once more.

[Mark K]

East Alabama Gun Club is moving this direction very soon. I have a couple of Simple Touch, an IPAD, an IPOD Touch, an Android Phone, and a Samsung Galaxy 10.1 Tablet to play with. All work fine. We are trending toward the IPOD Touch, But my problem with it compared to the Simple Touch, the the Size. If buying new equipment, there are several Android offerings in a larger form factor, at the same price point, for example this Samsung Galaxy 5.0

Do you have to root this one? How long does the battery carry you?

Should not have to root it, as it runs Gingerbread OS. The battery is suppose to go 6 hours. We are also looking at 7" tablets. Still decided. IF the Kindle Fire would run PS, it would be a good way to go.

Mark K

[wgnoyes]

Does the kindle fire have to be rooted?

[Skydiver]

Does the kindle fire have to be rooted?

I don't think it needs to be rooted. Just need to switch the setting to take apps from unknown sources:

http://liliputing.com/2011/11/how-to-sideload-apps-even-the-android-market-on-the-amazon-kindle-fire.html

[Ken N.]

PractiScore runs fine on a Kindle Fire. As mentioned above you do need to set it to take apps from unknown sources (outside the app store).

Early on the PractiScore had a problem on the Fire due to its custom keyboard missing a "." - hard to enter a time with that. But we fixed that some time ago.

Ken N.

[euxx]

I've been looking around for a good devices to run PractiScore on and found this one.

http://www.buysku.com/wholesale/7-quot-capacitive-touch-screen-all-winner-a10-1-5ghz-512mb-4gb-2160p-hdmi-android-2-3-ultra-thin-tablet-pc.html

Wonder if anyone had any experience with it? It seem like the price is not much more then Nook and it has capacitive screen. It also got a camera and bunch of other whistles that seem overkill for the job... I need it for indoors only, so direct sun light won't be an issue.

[Mark K]

PractiScore runs fine on a Kindle Fire. As mentioned above you do need to set it to take apps from unknown sources (outside the app store).

Early on the PractiScore had a problem on the Fire due to its custom keyboard missing a "." - hard to enter a time with that. But we fixed that some time ago.

Ken N.

Ken, What kind battery life are you getting out of the Kindle Fire?

Mark K

[wgnoyes]

Does the kindle fire have to be rooted?

I don't think it needs to be rooted. Just need to switch the setting to take apps from unknown sources:

http://liliputing.com/2011/11/how-to-sideload-apps-even-the-android-market-on-the-amazon-kindle-fire.html

That's nothing. You have to set that checkbox in a rooted Nook Simple Touch, as well.

[Skydiver]

Does the kindle fire have to be rooted?

I don't think it needs to be rooted. Just need to switch the setting to take apps from unknown sources:

http://liliputing.co...indle-fire.html

That's nothing. You have to set that checkbox in a rooted Nook Simple Touch, as well.

True, but the setting is available on a Kindle Fire by default without requiring rooting, while a Nook Simple Touch has to be rooted first to expose the setting.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Skydiver

[Graham Smith]

After our (Southern Chester PA) match on Saturday, a group of us went for a beer and some food. Since there were three former MD's, and two RO's I took some time to go over PractiScore. Here are a few ideas we discussed - these are all just options suggested.

--After recording the scores on the device, the scorekeeper could give the shooter the clip board and pen and be read the time and score totals. They would write them down and initial. This would ensure they knew what the scores were.

--It would seem as if trying to squad people on the device the morning of the match can be a bit time consuming particularly since squads are often shuffled about quite a bit. This is seen by several as being one obstacle. It might be easier if there was a way to bring up a squad and add people from the list to the squad.

--The iPod version and the Android version are different in several ways - some small, some not. I've only taken the time to find a couple right now.

----The way the stages are created is different. The Andriod version is a lot faster.

----There is no shooter number on the Android Add a Shooter screen

--One awkward part of this could be the order in which things appear on the menu.

----When entering scores, you start with the stage then go to the squad then to the shooters (or just to the shooters). By my way of thinking, this is not the optimal order.

----If you are using squads, then it would be simpler to go to the squad list first, then the stage, then the shooter.

----Also, we usually put a speed shoot and a classifier in the same bay. They shoot both then score both. In a case like this, it would be preferable to have the order as squad, then shooter, then stage.

There's probably more but that's all I have had time to get into.

[Skydiver]

After our (Southern Chester PA) match on Saturday, a group of us went for a beer and some food. Since there were three former MD's, and two RO's I took some time to go over PractiScore. Here are a few ideas we discussed - these are all just options suggested.

--After recording the scores on the device, the scorekeeper could give the shooter the clip board and pen and be read the time and score totals. They would write them down and initial. This would ensure they knew what the scores were.

--It would seem as if trying to squad people on the device the morning of the match can be a bit time consuming particularly since squads are often shuffled about quite a bit. This is seen by several as being one obstacle. It might be easier if there was a way to bring up a squad and add people from the list to the squad.

--The iPod version and the Android version are different in several ways - some small, some not. I've only taken the time to find a couple right now.

----The way the stages are created is different. The Andriod version is a lot faster.

----There is no shooter number on the Android Add a Shooter screen

--One awkward part of this could be the order in which things appear on the menu.

----When entering scores, you start with the stage then go to the squad then to the shooters (or just to the shooters). By my way of thinking, this is not the optimal order.

----If you are using squads, then it would be simpler to go to the squad list first, then the stage, then the shooter.

----Also, we usually put a speed shoot and a classifier in the same bay. They shoot both then score both. In a case like this, it would be preferable to have the order as squad, then shooter, then stage.

There's probably more but that's all I have had time to get into.

Just to address some of your comments above:

You've echoed some of the feedback from the local shooters we have that have been gracious enough to let me pilot electronic scoring with Practiscore on them.

We've been doing the scorekeeper reading off the values to be written on the backup paper sheet and then have the shooter verify the numbers and initialize. It's pretty amazing that most of the shooters would rather skip this step. Probably it's because they aren't intimately aware of the rulebook that the signed copy is the definitive score, not the device score. Anyway, when I'm wearing the Stats officer hat would rather have the paper backup. But when I'm wearing the shooter's hat, I would rather get a paper script with print out the scores entered, or if I could get my phone to sync up with the squad/stage device, I'd be equally satisfied.

Yes, there is away to add people to a squad if you have them all in a device. Simply go to Enter shooters/Edit squads, select a shooter, and change their squad number. It's not very streamlined if you have a small phone UI to play with, but works quite well on a larger tablet format.

I think that the stage creation with the latest iOS version is at parity with the latest Android version. What was the significant slow down you noticed on the iOS version?

An the Android version, it's not tagged as Shooter number in the shooter input field. It is called "EzWinScore number". They are the same thing.

Yes, the common feedback I got from the score keepers was that they prefer to have choose Squad, then choose Stage, then choose shooter. This is because we are running around with squad level devices.

JCWren and most have been advising using per stage devices so that if ever a device goes down, nobody loses their scores for their entire match. With the per stage device, then the current UI that has you choose Stage, then choose Squad, then choose Shooter makes perfect sense. Also, a per stage device makes more sense for the case of a two stages sharing a bay and the shooter going hot from an stage to another stage.

It's gratifying though to see that it's not just my shooters who are coming back with the same feedback. Probably shows that we've not been inhaling too much lead.

[centermass]

Has anyone tried a cheap 7" Android based tablet, most run Google Android 2.2? I can find several for $55-70. No need to root, easy enough to get the Practiscore app. I have a 10.1" Archos that it works wonderfully on, but it's a bit large to make it useful for squad/stage scoring. Most are resistive touch screens, a stylus would be necessary I assume.

[centermass]

Anyway, when I'm wearing the Stats officer hat would rather have the paper backup. But when I'm wearing the shooter's hat, I would rather get a paper script with print out the scores entered, or if I could get my phone to sync up with the squad/stage device, I'd be equally satisfied.

If you allow competitors to sync to the stage/squad device what is stopping them from changing scores?

[bbbean]

Anyway, when I'm wearing the Stats officer hat would rather have the paper backup. But when I'm wearing the shooter's hat, I would rather get a paper script with print out the scores entered, or if I could get my phone to sync up with the squad/stage device, I'd be equally satisfied.

If you allow competitors to sync to the stage/squad device what is stopping them from changing scores?

Synching is one-way.

[centermass]

Anyway, when I'm wearing the Stats officer hat would rather have the paper backup. But when I'm wearing the shooter's hat, I would rather get a paper script with print out the scores entered, or if I could get my phone to sync up with the squad/stage device, I'd be equally satisfied.

If you allow competitors to sync to the stage/squad device what is stopping them from changing scores?

Synching is one-way.

Then how do scores get updated to the "mother" device to calculate the match? I guess if the wi-fi is not active a shooter with the app on a personal phone couldn't get access, but that defeats the purpose of being able upload results to the main device.

[Ken N.]

All,

I'm now in the throes of final day of prep for the Area 1 match. So I won't be able to respond quickly to e-mail or on Enos.

So I'm not ignoring you on purpose. I'm just swamped.

Ken N.

[bbbean]

If you allow competitors to sync to the stage/squad device what is stopping them from changing scores?

Synching is one-way.

Then how do scores get updated to the "mother" device to calculate the match? I guess if the wi-fi is not active a shooter with the app on a personal phone couldn't get access, but that defeats the purpose of being able upload results to the main device.

When you synch, synching A->B and synching B->A are two different operations. If I have the master device, I can let other devices pull data all day long, but I only accept data from other devices when I choose to. So when Chester Cheater shows up with his iPhone, I can let him accept data from the master to see how he did, but I only accept data from his phone if I specifically select that option.

BB