need more power, Why not 10mm ?

[preventec47]

I dont know anything about competitive shooting but if some of are pushing

the limits trying to get more power and loading longer etc. Why not just

shoot the 10mm which is just like a 40-long ?

Scott

[legacy]

Power Factor is what we are trying to achieve. Power factor is calculated by multiplying bullet weight (in grains, 7,000 to the pound) by muzzle velocity (in feet per second), then dividing by 1000

You can reload some very nice shooting Minor and Major power factor loads using good ol' 40. The only real reason why people reload long or short is because of their chosen platform. Glocks and most other striker-fired pistols are reloaded to factors specs mostly because of magazine limitations. 19/2011 often load longer to help with feeding issues.

Here is some info on power factor

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_factor_(pistol)

[Scoobb]

I'm kind of curious of the pros and cons of shooting a 10mm in limited class (BESIDES BRASS AVAILABILITY)

Wouldn't the 10mm give you a little more flexibility as far as using an even heavier bullet or what not. So brass aside could the 10mm be a viable option ?

[kalaur]

I'm kind of curious of the pros and cons of shooting a 10mm in limited class (BESIDES BRASS AVAILABILITY)

Wouldn't the 10mm give you a little more flexibility as far as using an even heavier bullet or what not. So brass aside could the 10mm be a viable option ?

It could be an option, however most guns geared towards 'games' are not chambered in 10mm, but 40 instead. 'Race' based guns are built to withstand the slightly higher pressures of running 40 at major power factor, similar to the 9mm open major guns. Lots of folks need to run real long lengths to help with feeding, and if they are running very fast burning powders it helps reduce pressure a bit. Brass availability/cost would be a HUGE thing with 10mm.

[Scoobb]

that's exactly my point, these 'Race' guns were designed around 10mm length cartridges, so feeding wouldn't be an issue. You would have more case volume to play with bullet powder combos, so pressure shouldn't be an issue at all. Some people are running their 40's at 10mm oal.

So i'm guessing the only reason would be brass

[Flexmoney]

Wouldn't the 10mm give you a little more flexibility as far as using an even heavier bullet or what not. So brass aside could the 10mm be a viable option ?

10mm would be fine. But, 40 is not lacking in any regard, really.

Most run 180g bullets by choice. A few run 200g...some run 165g. 40 does all that and you can get brass everywhere, for cheap. And, if something happens (lost luggage with ammo in it, for instance)...you can borrow or buy ammo and still get to shoot.

If you have a 10mm and want to shoot it...rock on!

[noylj]

A Short Diatribe:

I see all loading trends in IDPA/IPSC/etc. to be disposable-case driven. It is too difficult and time consuming to have the competitors pick up their brass, so all brass must be cheap enough to be "disposable."

9x19 and .40 cases are relatively inexpensive. You shoot 9x19 major and leave the cheap cases behind. Of course, some poor range rat is going to pick up the cases and try them for 9x19 regular and possibly have a case failure. To shoot a "safe and sane" cartridge like the .38 Super or 10mm Auto would involve using much more expensive brass that the competitor would NOT want to leave behind--but must, except maybe at the local level.

Thus, competition is being driven to use the wrong tool and this is leading to down-grading the major PF to make the poor tool work.

No action pistol shooter really sees any thing practical in the loads being shot--it is all gamemanship. Even the stock classes are NOT shooting loads recommended by any loading company, except for minor (and those are too light to be "practical").

Personally, I would prefer the elimination of minor and have two main classes: a class for PF of 150 minimum (.38 and up) possibly for all "stock" gun classes and PF of 175 minimum (.40 and up) for all tricked-out "open" gun classes. This would eliminate trying to push major with a cartridge that is NOT capable of shooting major in any "stock" gun. There are simply too many KBs with the current rules.

If youth/women need a lighter PF, then let them work to a 135 PF in .38 and up, in their own sub-division.

[technetium-99m]

I'd venture a guess that kabooms are more a result of reloader error than trying to push 40 to major power factor. The cartridge makes major perfectly fine. As for a 150 minor floor. Well I've only seen one load make that out of a production gun. It was the Winchester 127 gr +p+ loading. All the factory target ammo has gone less than 140 in the production guns I've chronographed.

I'm honestly confused at your goal here. Is it to eliminate 9mm from USPSA or encourage people to load it to 155+ power factor out of G 17's. I'm not sure either is a good idea.

[LPatterson]

... Snip

No action pistol shooter really sees any thing practical in the loads being shot--it is all gamemanship. Even the stock classes are NOT shooting loads recommended by any loading company, except for minor (and those are too light to be "practical").

Personally, I would prefer the elimination of minor and have two main classes: a class for PF of 150 minimum (.38 and up) possibly for all "stock" gun classes and PF of 175 minimum (.40 and up) for all tricked-out "open" gun classes. This would eliminate trying to push major with a cartridge that is NOT capable of shooting major in any "stock" gun. There are simply too many KBs with the current rules.

If youth/women need a lighter PF, then let them work to a 135 PF in .38 and up, in their own sub-division.

This is really confusing to me as I can't figure out what you are trying to say. First off we don't have a "stock" gun class. The problem is not trying to push major that causes most Kabooms it is trying to have the softest feeling major PF with a powder that takes very little volume. This leads to detonations or double charges. What we do with our guns should not really be your concern and it seems you want to push a form of Obama care to guns. You know your form of what is best for the rest of us.

[GrumpyGrizz]

I carry a 10mm Auto daily as my duty weapon. I carry the same pistol, a G20 BTW, when hunting and hiking. I use it in competition because it is my chosen platform. The versatility of the 10MM is across shooting activities, not within a specific activity. I realize that my choice comes at a cost, e.g. availability of commercial loads, available of brass and of course cost of ammunition and components.

As far as Power Factor rules, I think they should be kept simple and overly broad. The current rules allow a bunch of different calibers and allow shooters to decide what is important to themselves. For me, I like to use ammunition that closely resembles what I carry for work. BUT THAT IS WHAT I WANT! I desire to use these games, and they are games, to improve my skills. If I decide that what I want is trophies and get my picture in Frontsight (there is absolutely nothing wrong with this either), then I may want to change loads or caliber. I am glad it is my decision and not forced on me.

If I could make a recommendation on changing a rule, it would be in the Heavy Metal Division. Instead of a caliber restriction, i.e., .44 caliber, I would change it to make an established power factor with a 200 grain bullet. That way 10MM, .41 Mag, .357 Mag and other calibers could compete in that division without compromising its intent.

[anilson]

40 S&W makes major power factor (165) with ease. Most factory 180g 40 cal ammo is 180 power factor.

i.e. my match loads have less pressure then most factory 40 cal ammo.

[Amerflyer48]

Looking at Starlines price list,..

if we had to buy our pistol brass price really wouldn't be a factor, however since we can get used .40 and 9mm cheap that is what alot of folks use (police range brass)

my 10mm took a shooter to A class OPEN back in the early 90's just before all the P-9s and 28 round field courses showed up

I went to B class in shortly thereafter. so yes it is viable if you don't count brass in the cost of playing the game....

and a 200 gr with a 190+ PF(950fps) will flat put poppers down even 4" up from the bottom ( for those pesky behind popper no shoots )

the only thing I gave up to the .38 Super was 1 round capacity and with the Nosler 135s it shot just like a Super I preferred a 155 LSWC or the 200 TCFP

It is also fun to watch the chronoman doubletake when the calculator says a 240 PF 200 JHP @ 1200fps.

John

[MustangGreg66]

10mm can still be fun