XDM 5.25 9mm VS. STI Trojan 9mm

[bmusick]

I am looking for feedback from individuals that own both. I have been reading other posts in the XD(M) section and see a few people that shoot both firearms.

I recently started shooting again (8/2011) after a 4-5 year break. Before my long break I shot some IDPA, but was not too involved. I always shot a 1911 (Kimber team match II in .38 Super, or a Kimber pro Carry in 9mm.)Both were sold years ago.

I Currently own a XDM 5.25 in 9mm with the PRP Ultimate Match grade trigger and the pistol gear extended slide stop. I use this gun strictly for IDPA (ESP.) I like the gun and I shoot it pretty well. I do have a few issues that I am hung up on. 95% of the time my slide will not lock back after my last shot. This is a problem with my grip that I can not seem to break. My strong hand thumb is too high and rides the slide stop. I put the Pistol Gear slide stop on to help, but it did not make a difference. The other issue is it does not feel as natural in my hand and I am always shifting the gun in my hand after the draw. I know both of the issues can be corrected with practice/training.

I have owned an STI Shadow 9mm and had good luck with exception to the finish.

Before I sell the XDM for the Trojan I want to get a feel for other peoples experience (I know I should keep the XDM 5.25 and just buy the Trojan, but per my wife that is not an option. )

For those that own both:

In your opinion what are the pros and Cons of the two guns.

If you could only own one which one would YOU choose?

Please keep in mind that either gun will be used strictly for IDPA (ESP.)

Thanks for any feedback you can give me.

[Paul Burtchell]

Lots of good threads on 9mm Single Stacks on the forum.

I currently own an XDm 5.25 tricked out by Springer Custom. I use it for USPSA Production and ESP in IPDA. I too, like you, have an issue with my right thumb and the slide lock lever.

I have owned several 9mm Single Stack pistols including a STI Spartan and Trojan. Just be prepared to spend some time and money getting the Single Stack 9mm to run reliably.

Tripp Cobramags or Dawson's Supreme Tactical magazines work well. Depending on what you use for your magwell will determine what kind of mag basepads you need to go with.

If you like trouble free, stick with the XDm. If you like to tinker and don't mind some initial frustration, it's hard to beat the single stack 9mm. The heavier weight and egronomics of the single stack, make it a pleasure to shoot.

[kreativecid]

I have the xdm 5.25 9mm with PRP Ultimate, too. Had it about 5 days, not overwhelmed initially, but finally found a load that is dead-on accurate just today. My thumb sometimes rides the slide lock. That's me and training will resolve it. I have 138 rounds tested through the xdm and may sell it for a CZ if I can find one to feel before sending it to Stuart in Colorado. Until then it sits cleaned and perfect condition in the safe. I've been shooting a heavy steel 1911 both in 9 and 45 for the past year or so and maybe the lightweight polymer and I just don't mix (used to be purely glock & mp9L before finding steel again).

While not a Trojan I have a Spartan 9mm. The sweetest trigger and dead-on accurate with my favorite load! It was $628, $68 for S&A magwell, grip tape (the Trojan's hokey front strap needs grip tape anyway for me) and $15 for 9-round mags from CDNN that now feed and eject perfectly; did an action job with lighter springs and a lighter sear, polished, etc., and it's borderline euphoric as far as triggers go. And a 1911 9mm can be 100% reliable if the OAL and bullet type like your gun. I have about 4000 rounds through mine and the grip and accuracy and awesome trigger made dialing in the xdm difficult. As my friend said "leave the 1911 at home while you're learning the xdm....bringing it along is like taking a girl you just started dating to watch while you're on a date with another girl." True.

For pure IDPA it'd be the 9mm 1911 without doubt. The trigger is too good when worked on slightly. The PRP is 4 pounds on the dot. A vast huge great improvement over the stock mushy crappy striker fire trigger.....but if you've ever shot a nice 1911 game gun the PRP is "pretty good" (no offense to PRP or anyone who has not shot a nice 1911 trigger and thinks their xdm is brilliant). And if you can get a 1911 9mm to be dead-nuts reliable and predictable then that's icing on the cake.

Have you considered a CZ single action?

Edited December 8, 2011 by kreativecid

[bmusick]

Thanks for the responses.

I was thinking about a cz 75 from cz custom shop, but decided against it because I can not find one to hold. I can not see spending that much and hoping it fits my hand.

Years ago I was trying to get equipped to shot in some USPSA matches and had a used Brazos Customes limited 2011. That had an awesome trigger, although a little light for what I am looking for now.

I am leaning towards Trojan from Dawson Percision with the no gap ice magwell with their magazines.

It sounds like a 1911 9mm (if running correct) is the ultimate "gaming gun."

I guess I am just trying to find out if others feel the exact opposit and feel the 5.25 has an advantage in IDPA

[xdnok]

I say go for both I love my 5.25 and my 9mm Kimber but like most I did have to work at the 1911 to get it to work right all the time. It's kinda picky on mags and ammo but is very accurate and flat shooting. If I could only have one it would be the XDm though, it's dead nuts reliable, accurate, any ammo works and certainly less expensive. The slide stop issue can be worked out and in my case to my advantage as it just nudges my thumb when the last round goes into the chamber, kinda cool.

[bmusick]

I wish I could! My wife just doesn't understand!

[twodownzero]

Keep your XD(m) and buy a Spartan. Between the two of them, you'll have only slightly more $$$ out than if you bought a Trojan, and you'll have both guns.

I love my Spartan. It runs great with 135 round nose bullets and Tripp mags.

[kreativecid]

Rereading the OP it seems you are just looking for a nudge from online strangers to get a 1911 9mm. And since you can only have 1 gaming gun for IDPA you want it to be something a bit nicer without going crazy hence the Trojan....and not a Spartan. If the Spartan had an undercut trigger it'd be perfect for me (after changing the front sight to a narrow f/o).

The fit, feel and ergos of the xdm for your shooting do not sound like a perfect match from how you typed the cons of the firearm.

Life is too short. You are truly into competition shooting. You can only have 1 9mm. Get the 1911.

But also factor in new mag holders for singlestack mags and a new holster. The Spartan is $628 shipped from Oak Hill. The Trojan with its nice undercut trigger guard is $999. The firearm is also the cheapest part of your hobby: ammo, entry fees, gas, time.

[bmusick]

I agree I came into this pretty much set on the Trojan. I posted it in the XD section to see if anyone out there had both and feel the XDM has a leg up for IDPA.

The undercut trigger is a big plus for me, and the main reason I am not interested in the Spartan.

I am all set up with the reloading equipment.

In my case the most expensive part of this sport is the bribes to the wife (I get a gun she gets a purse. I buy another gun , she gets some other over priced item.) Unfortunatly the XDM may sold to get her something. I may try to convince her to let me have both, I am just not sure if that is a battle I want to start

[kreativecid]

Well then here you go: http://www.dawsonprecision.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=3040000-1095448367

They charge $75 for overnight and I believe $45 for 2-day. You get the upgraded f/o which can be thinner if that's your preference.

Oak Hill has it for $999 including shipping: http://www.oakhillenterprises.com/ItemDetails/794304604/STI_1911_Trojan_9mm_NEW_NO_FEE_CC.htm but the front sight change is on your dime.

[Paul Burtchell]

The "advantage" of the XDm is having a pistol than runs 100% without alot of tinkering.

ONCE you get the 9mm 1911 running 100% there is nothing nicer.

Let me know how it goes with your Trojan purchase. I live 30 minutes from Dave Dawson and STI. I am good friends with Dave Dawson and David Cupp (Warranty Mgr at STI) . Just be prepared to spend some time getting that "rascal" up and running. Mags are CRITICAL 9mm and 40 S&W 1911's are a different breed of cat. Take it from someone who has owned 7 of them. All of them spent time in the hands of either David Cupp, Dave Dawson, Virgil Tripp or Benny Hill to get 100%.

STI Spartan 9mm

(2) STI Trojan 9mm

(2) STI Trojan 40 S&W

David Cupp Custom 40 S&W

Customized Springfield Armory 40 S&W

"The path of excess leads to the palace of wisdom and I live in a damn nice house" .

My advice on any sub 45 caliber Single Stack 1911 is to either go a full custom or buy a Les Baer, OR be ready to spend a little time and money to get them running . Remember in your original post you were asking advice from folks who have owned both platforms.

The real advantage, and take this from someone who has NOT followed this advice, is picking one platform and practicing. Neither gun will hold you back in IDPA.

One advantage a nice 1911 has for me over the XDm is pride of ownership. Nothing more beautiful than a nice Single Stack.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Edited December 9, 2011 by Paul Burtchell

[dom1104]

The "advantage" of the XDm is having a pistol than runs 100% without alot of tinkering.

ONCE you get the 9mm 1911 running 100% there is nothing nicer.

Let me know how it goes with your Trojan purchase. I live 30 minutes from Dave Dawson and STI. I am good friends with Dave Dawson and David Cupp (Warranty Mgr at STI) . Just be prepared to spend some time getting that "rascal" up and running. Mags are CRITICAL 9mm and 40 S&W 1911's are a different breed of cat. Take it from someone who has owned 7 of them. All of them spent time in the hands of either David Cupp, Dave Dawson, Virgil Tripp or Benny Hill to get 100%.

STI Spartan 9mm

(2) STI Trojan 9mm

(2) STI Trojan 40 S&W

David Cupp Custom 40 S&W

Customized Springfield Armory 40 S&W

"The path of excess leads to the palace of wisdom and I live in a damn nice house" .

My advice on any sub 45 caliber Single Stack 1911 is to either go a full custom or buy a Les Baer, OR be ready to spend a little time and money to get them running . Remember in your original post you were asking advice from folks who have owned both platforms.

The real advantage, and take this from someone who has NOT followed this advice, is picking one platform and practicing. Neither gun will hold you back in IDPA.

One advantage a nice 1911 has for me over the XDm is pride of ownership. Nothing more beautiful than a nice Single Stack.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Hmm.

Let me add my experiance.

I bought a STI Sentry in 9mm, have 7k rounds thru it, only bobbled twice.

It is my most reliable pistol.

I have had nothing done to it other than a trigger job.

Sometimes, I guess they just work out of the box.

[Marv Z]

I have both and while the Trojan is a great shooter, it's limited in what you can use it for. The XDM will work in IDPA, USPSA, and 3 Gun. The extra weight of the trojan is what makes it such a soft shooter. I've shot the same load out of both guns back to back and the Trojan is a better shooter as far as recoil. If I had to choose and only keep one, it would be the XDM due to it'd versatility. My Trojan came from Brazos and has run very well with only a couple minor teething issues that had to be worked out.

[pjb45]

I have both a Trojan and XD.

I put a ton of money in the Trojan. It is very accurate and a good pistol. I used it for Limited 10 for a few years. I never shoot it now. I just do not like it. It is basically a travel in the car gun. I do shoot my custom 1911 a lot, just not the Trojan.

I had Scott Springer do a trigger job on the SA. This gun can be used for Limited, Limited 10 and Production with just a change in base pads.

If I had to choose one pistol, I would chose the SA XD over the Trojan every time. This is just between the XD and Trojan. I shoot my custom 1911 more than any other gun I own.

Edited December 9, 2011 by pjb45

[fred5876r]

I have a 9mm Spartan and a 5.25 XDm, and I am in agreement with what has been stated. The XDm is reliable and accurate, but the Spartan is a 1911. Since they overlap for IDPA (ESP), and you can only have one, the Spartan or Trojan would be hard to beat. I bought my XDm primarily for USPSA Production Division.

I recommend the Spartan over a Trojan for the difference in price. Spend the $370 on a few mods. I sent my Spartan frame to FGW for a undercut trigger guard, an Ed Brown extended mag catch, and an "Atranite" finish (the slide was refinished in "cobalt" plating by Plate-Tacular). I bought the gun from Dawson so it came with a Dawson .100 FO front sight at no extra charge. I also added a S&A magwell. I have 5 Tripp Cobra and 5 Wilson ETM mags. They both run fine with 147 FMJ.

[Scoobb]

I don't own both but as far as shifting your grip, I used to have that problem with mine. It really helped me to go to the large backstrap and add grip texturing of some kind, now I never have to readjust my grip. As far as riding the slide lock, I would think the pistol gear slide lock would be much more susceptible to this than the stock slide stop....

[bmusick]

Thanks for all the feed back.

I am using the middle blackstrap and the entire grip is covered in grip tape. It does not move around in my hand. My issue is that when I draw and aim at target I realize it is way off. I then need to shift it around prior to taking my first shot.

The pistol gear slide stop does not hang down low like the stock one. I thought about modifying the pistol gear slid stop by cutting the rear section off.

I think I my be selling the 5.25 soon (currently working a deal, pending shipping cost.) I will let you know how it turns out.

[TGO]

If I may add my thoughts, the two guns while legal for both classes are two different animals. I may have or have used more 9mm 1911's than anyone now living on this planet. Really, I currently have about 20 of them. maybe more. Never can have too many guns. The pistol itself is very easy to build but suffers from a couple inherent problems. The slide is really too heavy to be a 9 minor but will work with the right spring weights and the best magazines. Mag wise I have tried about everything and will only use two types: The 9 rounder with the groove down the front or the 10 rounder with the feed ramp in the top of the front of the mag. Both are manufactured by Metalform and both may require some tweaking to work perfectly. Best bet is to buy from Dawson and make sure they go over them, "tune" if you like, to insure they are perfect. When the mags are perfect they should feed any bullet shape, (at least everything I have tried). Without these mags I would count on problems. The 1911 9mm is the most finicky of the calibers in that platform, but can be made to work well.

As far as shoot-ability is concerned, those writing in this thread are right. Partially due to it's weight, it is the lightest kicking, most accurate, easy to shoot of all 9mm pistols, next to my 30 year old Clark modified Ruger MkII .22. And the difference is minimal. It should be cheating to use one of these. I did in the SS class at the recent Area 2 and when you can get away with minor, it is exceedingly easy to perform well with one of these. That is why Bianchi Metallic and PPC shooting is dominated by these guns.

They are also much more expensive and less versatile a competitors gun than an XDm 5.25. The 1911 will not be in USPSA Production class. Or NRA or Steel Challenge etc. The XDm will be competitive in more categories. It could be in the right circumstances a competitive limited gun. It is also much more reliable and easy to make/keep working. You can get great performance from either, and as much as I love the 1911 in 9mm, I shot the best iron sight score of my career at the Steel Challenge this year with a 5.25. So who knows?

It is really up to you. I doubt the gun will be a make or break deal regarding your scores. Some of this is emotional and not quantifiable on paper. There is the feel of the 1911 that some of us are so used to that anything else is found lacking. Most newer shooters, (those that have come up during the polymer era) do not have the hang up on the 1911 feel and ergonomics that many of us older "experienced" shooters have. That being said, I am old school and prefer the weight of the all steel gun, but this may have little effect on my scores!

Pick the one you like the looks of or the feel or whatever, either way you will have a winner.

Rob

[TGO]

I forgot to add;

Kreativecid, what is the deal with the undercut trigger guard? You sound like my buddies Chad and Joe who like any pistol as long as it has a squared trigger guard! Not trying to be a butt head or get personal, but am curious as to it's importance to you?

Rob

[kreativecid]

When I first got into match shooting many told me I had to get the highest grip possible to control recoil, and an undercut TG was a tremendous help.

After today's extensive range session with a variety of reloads, it turns out my most accurate quickest most fun pistol is a 9mm 1911 without an undercut TG. I thought about having the TG machined and the pistol recoated but a few who did it said the cost and effort was not worth it to them. My worst shooting 9mm - in MY hands - is a polymer with an undercut. A few of my nicer 1911 have undercut TG but the Springfield Professional I recently sold does not.

So many factors in being quick and accurate, and for me it's weight and felt recoil. I can do no wrong it seems with a reliable feeding and ejecting 9mm 1911 (mags are 9 rd Metalform). I've put a little over 300 rounds through my xdm 5.25 9mm with PRP Ultimate Match (and lighter comp trigger spring) and even trying the small and medium palm swells, it is my least "fun" 9mm. I'm going to try a 16# recoil spring and see if it helps with the 135g and 147g moly reloads, but compared to my 9mm 1911 it's a drastic difference for me. When the 3 free mags get here in a month it's going up for sale.

Always looking to own more guns, too, and I think my next purchase is going to be a big ol' heavy CZ SP01 Shadow. I don't care if it's not IDPA legal. I want the heavier SP01 Shadow vs the IDPA legal CZ75 Shadow. It'll cost a lot more than a PRP xdm (about $400 more give or take after the work BE forum member EERW does), but I think price isn't a major determining factor in buying a great fitting accurate gun. I've had a Glock 34, M&P 9L and a few Springfield xd and xdm. While each are good firearms and obviously many shooters have great success with them, it seems a heavy steel light recoiling 9mm is Alpha heaven for me.

Heck, maybe I should just skip the CZ and keep doing what I'm doing with the $650 non-undercut STI Spartan (has lighter springs, polished, lighter sear & narrow front sight). It performs so wonderfully that I truly have no reason to buy another 9mm other than just wanting to buy another gun.

Even your buddy at Canyon Creek undercuts the Springfield 9mm TG: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=265065966

I forgot to add;

Kreativecid, what is the deal with the undercut trigger guard? You sound like my buddies Chad and Joe who like any pistol as long as it has a squared trigger guard! Not trying to be a butt head or get personal, but am curious as to it's importance to you?

Rob

Edited December 17, 2011 by kreativecid

[TGO]

I'd agree that a 1911 that is heavier, has a lighter trigger pull and usually fits tighter, should be shot better than an XDm. I usually can, but the thing we tend to overlook here is that the XDm in any of it's versions started out as a pistol designed for reliability, light weight and ruggedness. It is a production class firearm. The 1911 is not even allowed in the same category as it is deemed to be an advantage over pistols like the XDm. That the performance of the 5.25 is so high is testament to the basic design, and the fact that it has been highly developed. That was never a factor in it's design. The original specs were so loose that it was never even a thought that it might evolve into such an exceptional performer. It was just supposed to work, be easy to use and last forever, under any abuse. BTW, the 1911 started out just the same. When I was starting to shoot practical pistol my dad couldn't believe I wanted a 1911. He thought they were inaccurate and unreliable and couldn't be made to shoot like his S&W N frame revolvers he loved so much. The XDm is an infant in comparison. I'm sure the XDm will get better and better but the 1911 is still the benchmark.

Rob

[bmusick]

Thanks everyone ! To give an update I have made the switch. I have a Hard Chromed Trojan 9mm on the way from Oak Hill. I also ordered the Dawson ice no-gap magwell and 4 mags from Dawson. Everything should arrive in the mail this coming Monday or Tuesday!

[Ssanders224]

You will enjoy it. The lack of recoil will amaze you.

I have basically the same setup but blued. Dawson no gap, ambi safetys, VZ grips, and a Koenig hammer.

As for 9mm 1911s not being reliable..... Well I'm close to 2000 rounds in my Trojan. Not ONE hiccup WHATSOEVER. And that is with a buffet of different ammo. Federal champion from Wally World, Blazer Brass, Remington UMC, WWB, Winchester JHP, a friends lead reloads, and some USA ammo.

[TGO]

I'm sure you will be a lover of the 1911 9mm, just like everyone else who has fired one. It is an excellent choice for the categories it is legal in.

I think all this can have gotten a little confusing, possibly by me and my enthusiasm for the 1911 in 9mm so just to make sure you understand, the XDm is legal in production, no 1911 is. That seems to be getting lost in all this. If you are not competing it will of course make now difference, just wanted all that to be clear.

If it is just higher performance you are after you really ought to shoot someones open gun, that will make anything else seem slow! Then of course you would be competing in open class, not single stack, limited, limited 10 and production. Heck, a rifle will be better than any pistol! Gotta compare Apples to Apples!

Rob

[38supPat]

You sound like my buddies Chad and Joe who like any pistol as long as it has a squared trigger guard!

Rob

Lol....well this guy seems to know the REAL reason trigger guards are squared....