deerassassin22 Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 (edited) I think I May be wrong here I'm sure someone will correct me but the MAX OAL for .40 is 1.135 looking at all the books that I have which is 48th Ed Lyman Reloading and Nosler and lee. That might of had something to do with it, and the brass might of just gave up a double charge at 4.0gr is extremely noticeable. I load up to 5.0gr in m glock and I just bought my Eagle and max at 5.0 of TG and PP up to 7.0 which was extremely scary FYI lots of recoil. But the best load for recoil I found that shot good is 3.8 or 4.0gr TG, Im no expert shot but it was pretty good for me don't have a chrono though. I recently been research my STI Mags and with their mags at max capacity have been know to crack the grips I don't have first hand EXP since this is my first STI. Edited November 16, 2011 by deerassassin22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalaur Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 I think I May be wrong here I'm sure someone will correct me but the MAX OAL for .40 is 1.135 looking at all the books that I have which is 48th Ed Lyman Reloading and Nosler and lee. That might of had something to do with it, and the brass might of just gave up a double charge at 4.0gr is extremely noticeable. I load up to 5.0gr in m glock and I just bought my Eagle and max at 5.0 of TG and PP up to 7.0 which was extremely scary FYI lots of recoil. But the best load for recoil I found that shot good is 3.8 or 4.0gr TG, Im no expert shot but it was pretty good for me don't have a chrono though. I recently been research my STI Mags and with their mags at max capacity have been know to crack the grips I don't have first hand EXP since this is my first STI. Max SAMMI OAL is 1.135, however most people who use 40 in a competitive scenario load considerably longer than that, 1.170-1.230 or even longer. Generally loading longer lowers pressure, which is also why a lot of people run loads higher than max published. Loading longer should not cause case blowouts, if anything it should reduce them. dauntedfuture - How easily do your lead rounds drop into the chamber? Do they drop all the way in, or do they take a little push? If it takes a little push, that could be a situation where you'd increase pressures too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted November 16, 2011 Author Share Posted November 16, 2011 I dont recall that there was any issue dropping loaded rounds into the chamber. Ill measure things when i get back home this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishpinoy27 Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 may I ask if your barrel is a ramp/supported?....I presume it is, being an STI...because the shape of the opening is somewhat like the throat of the barrel...I'm just asking because I also shoot a Para 16-40 and my loading is little bit on the low side...3.3 TG, OAL of 1.125 with a 175LSWC...PF of 144 and 3.7 TG, 175 LSWC and its already hitting the 163 PF...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted November 16, 2011 Author Share Posted November 16, 2011 Yes the barrel is fully ramped and supported. The throat is quite long and i have found that it feeds better when loaded long. 4.4 with the 170's gave 925 FPS so thats very close at 158 or so. I had shot some 4.3 TG with 165 bare lead and SR primers and i was at 1050 or so. I have found that SR primers are good for another 40-50 FPS or so. As these are some of my first Molly bullets i am not sure what effect it has compared to naked lead. If its like loading rifle you need more powder to get the same velocity from a given load. From those that i have talked with Paras have very short throats so that would increase pressure and velocity with a given load over long throat/ ammo combinations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishpinoy27 Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 I don't think the throat of a barrel would affect the pressure or the velocity of the bullets...but I know that pure lead alloys are much faster bullet than plated or jacketed...I do use standard Lee dies with a taper crimp but I run all my brass (from me or accidentally mix with mine) to a Lee push thru die (which is a factory crimp die) before I feed them to my 550....just in case there is mix up of glock fired brass that got mix into my brass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajadudes Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 I have been loading 180 gr montana gold JHP, 4.9 gr of clays with a 1.240 OAL for my 40 cal SVI w/5 inch barrel and it cronos around 990 give or take a little. No feed issues, the 1.240 OAL round stays in the mag a pinch longer. I have been told that I can probably even push it out to 1.260 with the SVI sight tracker barrel but I am liking it all right where it is. I am using the standard Dillon resizing die that came with my 1050 and the headstamps on the brass are mixed but mostly win, federal, starline, and blazer. I crimp only to remove the bell. After the crimp I look down at the nose and look for no space around the rim and a very slight shiny ring around the outside of the case. I would hate to have a rear blowout on a case. This thread reminds me not to be lax checking for even the slightest abnormality around the base of the round when sorting, cleaning, loading and gauging. Thanks for posting your experience and for all the additional commentary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazer-6 Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 I'm using n340 and not n320 to play it safe. i'd hate to see my HK tupperware let go... somebody said something about rounds looking like coke bottles? what's dangerous about this? how can this be prevented? im getting these from lee dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 somebody said something about rounds looking like coke bottles? what's dangerous about this? how can this be prevented? im getting these from lee dies. You WANT the coke bottle effect! Like the poster said the coke bottle effect means the bullet is in there nice and tight. With a Udie, and sometimes the Lees you will get the effect. Don't change anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 I don't think the throat of a barrel would affect the pressure or the velocity of the bullets...but I know that pure lead alloys are much faster bullet than plated or jacketed...I do use standard Lee dies with a taper crimp but I run all my brass (from me or accidentally mix with mine) to a Lee push thru die (which is a factory crimp die) before I feed them to my 550....just in case there is mix up of glock fired brass that got mix into my brass Barrel throat or leade will definitely affect both pressure and muzzle velocity. Loading with the bullet too close to the rifling will generally raise peak pressure, and reduce muzzle velocity. It can make a big difference with fast powders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear23 Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Case failure, I had one similar to that, just not that bad. jonathan, I've seen your reloads, i doubt you had a double charge, especially with tightgroup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 A bad case would not have blown out the primer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishpinoy27 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I don't think the throat of a barrel would affect the pressure or the velocity of the bullets...but I know that pure lead alloys are much faster bullet than plated or jacketed...I do use standard Lee dies with a taper crimp but I run all my brass (from me or accidentally mix with mine) to a Lee push thru die (which is a factory crimp die) before I feed them to my 550....just in case there is mix up of glock fired brass that got mix into my brass Barrel throat or leade will definitely affect both pressure and muzzle velocity. Loading with the bullet too close to the rifling will generally raise peak pressure, and reduce muzzle velocity. It can make a big difference with fast powders. the barrel throat that I am referring is the ramp throat (the part where we polish for smooth feeding)... unless you are referring to another part of the barrel that is also called throat....please enlighten me because also want to learn so I can check my barrel too...Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishpinoy27 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 A bad case would not have blown out the primer. Good point and observation.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 Throat is the portion of the barrel thats cut between the chamber and the bore. It provides a gradual transition for the bullet. A longer throat will allow you to load longer ammo so that you are not jamming bullets into the bore with loaded ammo in the chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerassassin22 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I think I May be wrong here I'm sure someone will correct me but the MAX OAL for .40 is 1.135 looking at all the books that I have which is 48th Ed Lyman Reloading and Nosler and lee. That might of had something to do with it, and the brass might of just gave up a double charge at 4.0gr is extremely noticeable. I load up to 5.0gr in m glock and I just bought my Eagle and max at 5.0 of TG and PP up to 7.0 which was extremely scary FYI lots of recoil. But the best load for recoil I found that shot good is 3.8 or 4.0gr TG, Im no expert shot but it was pretty good for me don't have a chrono though. I recently been research my STI Mags and with their mags at max capacity have been know to crack the grips I don't have first hand EXP since this is my first STI. Max SAMMI OAL is 1.135, however most people who use 40 in a competitive scenario load considerably longer than that, 1.170-1.230 or even longer. Generally loading longer lowers pressure, which is also why a lot of people run loads higher than max published. Loading longer should not cause case blowouts, if anything it should reduce them. dauntedfuture - How easily do your lead rounds drop into the chamber? Do they drop all the way in, or do they take a little push? If it takes a little push, that could be a situation where you'd increase pressures too. So just in general what would be to long? And you said it lowers pressure which is good but what does that do to accuracy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishpinoy27 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Throat is the portion of the barrel thats cut between the chamber and the bore. It provides a gradual transition for the bullet. A longer throat will allow you to load longer ammo so that you are not jamming bullets into the bore with loaded ammo in the chamber. so now I am cleared that we are not referring to the same throat....thanks for the clarification... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 As far as loaded length goes you are more often better off getting the bullets closer to the throat than you are too short. It made a big difference with my 9mm stuff, long shot much better. Longer bullets will jump less from case into the bore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalaur Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I think I May be wrong here I'm sure someone will correct me but the MAX OAL for .40 is 1.135 looking at all the books that I have which is 48th Ed Lyman Reloading and Nosler and lee. That might of had something to do with it, and the brass might of just gave up a double charge at 4.0gr is extremely noticeable. I load up to 5.0gr in m glock and I just bought my Eagle and max at 5.0 of TG and PP up to 7.0 which was extremely scary FYI lots of recoil. But the best load for recoil I found that shot good is 3.8 or 4.0gr TG, Im no expert shot but it was pretty good for me don't have a chrono though. I recently been research my STI Mags and with their mags at max capacity have been know to crack the grips I don't have first hand EXP since this is my first STI. Max SAMMI OAL is 1.135, however most people who use 40 in a competitive scenario load considerably longer than that, 1.170-1.230 or even longer. Generally loading longer lowers pressure, which is also why a lot of people run loads higher than max published. Loading longer should not cause case blowouts, if anything it should reduce them. dauntedfuture - How easily do your lead rounds drop into the chamber? Do they drop all the way in, or do they take a little push? If it takes a little push, that could be a situation where you'd increase pressures too. So just in general what would be to long? And you said it lowers pressure which is good but what does that do to accuracy? Maximum OAL can depend on a few things. One being maximum length your barrel will accept. With my 40 Edge, I can load well over 1.300 with MTG FMJ bullets. With Missouri 170gr LSWC its about 1.210 or so, since the bullet is .001 larger than a fmj. The second item affecting max OAL is your magazines. Many barrels will accept OALs much longer than what will fit in your magazine. My FMJ loads I run 1.190 OAL, for LSWC I run 1.175. The only reason I run shorter LSWC is because I also load for some shooting friends, and one of them needs a shorter round to fit in their barrel. This length all our guns will run without issues, so it keeps me from making one more adjustment to my press. You want to make sure your OAL is slightly shorter than the max your barrel can handle, since jamming the bullet into the lands/grooves of your barrel will increase pressures. Letting the bullet 'free bore' for a few thousandths (I try to back off at least 10-20 thou, if not more) will prevent this spike in pressure. In terms of accuracy, I've honestly never shot my gun off bags. If you follow some of the theories bench shooters use, loading longer and closer to the lands/grooves will generally increase accuracy since the bullet is 'freeboring' for less distance. I've heard some bench shooters actually jam the bullet into the lands while closing the bolt to prevent all freeboring of the bullet. One thing I've noticed in my barrel, is the 'leed' (lead? some peeps call throat) is tight. The area I'm talking about is just after the end of the chamber, but before the lands/grooves start. By tight, I don't mean short, I mean tight in diameter. The diameter difference between FMJ and lead bullets is enough for me to notice when chamber checking ammo in the barrel. A slight bit of lead lube on the bullet will cause the round to not fully 'drop' all the way in, but can easily be pushed in and out of the chamber without sticking in the lands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear23 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 A bad case would not have blown out the primer. If it was a bad case from the get go it would. primer pocket was probably a little loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul-the new guy Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I am lost as to how a round that is crimped to say .419 with a taper crimp die could be more urine to set back. I had to pull a bullet for chrono, first time, and it had a distinct grove in it from my taper crimp die. The crimp grove was maybe .005 wide. There is no way this bullet would get set back unless the brass collapsed. I do think my crimp was excessive though. Sorry about your kb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noylj Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 That was NOT a double charge. A double charge would have expanded the case head to almost twice its normal diameter. That is an unsupported chamber failure. May have been from a Glock or other and you just happened to line the weak part of the case with your exposed section of the case. Remember, the .40 will bite the hand that feeds it. I prefer virgin brass and tracking the number of reloads if loading near max loads or using a very fast powder. All heavy bullet/fast powder loads MUST be handled with great care. Any little problem can lead very quickly to a KB. Personally, I am very cautious with N310, S1000, TiteGroup, and Clays. All have shown spikey pressures at near max loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g56 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 A 1911 should not fire out of battery, it has a disconnector to prevent that, the hammer will not fall if it is out of battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalaur Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) A 1911 should not fire out of battery, it has a disconnector to prevent that, the hammer will not fall if it is out of battery. A 1911/2011 also should not blow up like the OP experienced... If the DC broke, or FP was stuck out, it certainly could fire out of battery. Edited November 21, 2011 by kalaur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dauntedfuture Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 The DC looks just fine. Ill chect the FP. Case it well into the chamber and the only deformation is the area right there at the ramp. How does one go about inspecting cases for an impending failure? Im not sure what all im looking for. Prior fired glock cases dont size back down and are easy to spot and toss. Other than that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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