IDPA Tiger Teams

[Merlin Orr]

What if we offed a revolver division?

Moons and speedloaders combined...@ 105PF.

Where are my boots and cowboy hat....

Big Red..Big Whitey.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Merlin Orr

[sirveyr]

What is a revolver?

[PistoleroJesse]

Like Brian said, IDPA does NOT need any more divisions. If anything, scale it back to three divisions- 165pf guns (regardless of caliber) at 8+1 that otherwise meet CDP specs, 125pf guns at 10+1 that otherwise meet ESP specs, and revolver...moonclip guns at 165pf and speedloader guns at 105pf.

I guess I don't mind that either. But then you are going to find that the preferred pistol of choice in the 'new' ESP becomes the 9mm 1911 or the CZ. Glocks, M&P, and XDs will fall to the wayside. I'm imagining much the same way those type of pistols were eschewed before the advent of production division in USPSA. Not that I was around or anything...

[Strick]

I doubt that. What type of gun has the most National and sanctioned match ESP wins? I would say the plastics are leading.

[Steve Koski]

Esp needs a subminor division also. I want to shoot my buckmark next year.

Just shoot SSR, the power factor is about the same.

Did you see the wicked recoil of those 105 PF loads in a 42 oz gun?

There were times I heard the noise but saw no motion. Wondered if I was looking at the right gun.

[Steve Koski]

Since the revoler divisions are barely represented, what if different scoring was applied to each, but they were combined for awards? Kind of a two for one division.

Have Miculek shoot a few matches with an ESR gun and a SSR gun, find the average multiplier difference, and apply it to either the SSR or the ESR scores to find the Revolver division placement.

OK, stupid idea.

[astephenson]

Since the revoler divisions are barely represented, what if different scoring was applied to each, but they were combined for awards? Kind of a two for one division.

Have Miculek shoot a few matches with an ESR gun and a SSR gun, find the average multiplier difference, and apply it to either the SSR or the ESR scores to find the Revolver division placement.

OK, stupid idea.

Would we be multiplying by the square root of pi before or after points?

[Strick]

If we are multiplying pie sign me up.............oh, not that kinda pie?

I have played around with the major/minor scoring in the same class before, it could work but in the end (as in USPSA) one will always prove to be advantage and kill the other one out.

[Steve Koski]

But what if you adjusted the multiplificator every year, based on the top SSR and ESR finishers (same class) in every sanctioned match. Would this sort of automatic levelator keep things evenish?

Edited November 4, 2011 by Steve Koski

[Jim Watson]

Carson Napier found that the inhabitants of Venus could reconcile all discrepancies by multiplying by the square root of minus one.

I would like to see some comparitive times of SSR sub-minor and ESR Major. See if the results were close and if so, roll them back into one Division; power factor still depending on the method of reload. Been said before.

[Merlin Orr]

Carson Napier found that the inhabitants of Venus could reconcile all discrepancies by multiplying by the square root of minus one.

I would like to see some comparitive times of SSR sub-minor and ESR Major. See if the results were close and if so, roll them back into one Division; power factor still depending on the method of reload. Been said before.

"Nothing is impossible to Science."

[Chills1994]

Ya...know... What would really trump this whole revolver discussion is if HQ would allow 8 shot S&W 627 revolvers ( to be loaded up with 8 and shoot all 8).

[DWFAN]

Shoot em major in cdp..

[Steve Koski]

LOL!!!

So long as they're 45 ACP.

[Steve Koski]

I would like to see some comparitive times of SSR sub-minor and ESR Major. See if the results were close and if so, roll them back into one Division; power factor still depending on the method of reload. Been said before.

Well whoever said it had a good idea.

Edited November 4, 2011 by Steve Koski

[COF]

Since you wisenheimers want to make fun of us wheelgunners, here's one.

ESR requires 165PF out of a 4" vented barrel while CDP is 165 out of a 5" enclosed barrel, requiring hotter loads out of a revolver without the benefit of recoil attenuation (slide). How about taking ammo that makes 165 PF out of a 5"1911 (.45 or .40) and chronoing the same ammo out of a 4" revolver. This would give you a better baseline on a realistic power factor.

[COF]

I would like to see some comparitive times of SSR sub-minor and ESR Major. See if the results were close and if so, roll them back into one Division; power factor still depending on the method of reload. Been said before.

Well whoever said it had a good idea.

I'll go along with that one.

[COF]

.357Sig, .40, .400 Corbon, .45GAP, .45 ACP, .45 Super all in CDP 8+1

Strikered fired guns in ESP or CDP (depending on caliber.

Better definition of cover

Edited November 4, 2011 by COF

[COF]

Ya...know... What would really trump this whole revolver discussion is if HQ would allow 8 shot S&W 627 revolvers ( to be loaded up with 8 and shoot all 8).

They don't even do that in USPSA. Load them with .357 ammo making power factor and shoot in CDP.

[DWFAN]

Since you wisenheimers want to make fun of us wheelgunners, here's one.

ESR requires 165PF out of a 4" vented barrel while CDP is 165 out of a 5" enclosed barrel, requiring hotter loads out of a revolver without the benefit of recoil attenuation (slide). How about taking ammo that makes 165 PF out of a 5"1911 (.45 or .40) and chronoing the same ammo out of a 4" revolver. This would give you a better baseline on a realistic power factor.

I could live with that.

[salilus]

If you want people to shoot in the wheel gun divisions, give them a reason. Prizes based on placement should get people in there.

Cover as related to targets being engaged needs to be addressed as well.

[GForceLizard]

Since you wisenheimers want to make fun of us wheelgunners, here's one.

ESR requires 165PF out of a 4" vented barrel while CDP is 165 out of a 5" enclosed barrel, requiring hotter loads out of a revolver without the benefit of recoil attenuation (slide). How about taking ammo that makes 165 PF out of a 5"1911 (.45 or .40) and chronoing the same ammo out of a 4" revolver. This would give you a better baseline on a realistic power factor.

Small change. Allow the revolvers to chrono their loads from a 5" 1911. We may not have any revolvers on hand. More CDP shooters than wheel gunners.

[GlockCanMan]

Since you wisenheimers want to make fun of us wheelgunners, here's one.

ESR requires 165PF out of a 4" vented barrel while CDP is 165 out of a 5" enclosed barrel, requiring hotter loads out of a revolver without the benefit of recoil attenuation (slide). How about taking ammo that makes 165 PF out of a 5"1911 (.45 or .40) and chronoing the same ammo out of a 4" revolver. This would give you a better baseline on a realistic power factor.

+ 1 for that idea. And lets bring the 5" barrel back for the revolvers...or else make the all the bottom feeders go down to a 4" barrel as well.

[Merlin Orr]

Since you wisenheimers want to make fun of us wheelgunners, here's one.

ESR requires 165PF out of a 4" vented barrel while CDP is 165 out of a 5" enclosed barrel, requiring hotter loads out of a revolver without the benefit of recoil attenuation (slide). How about taking ammo that makes 165 PF out of a 5"1911 (.45 or .40) and chronoing the same ammo out of a 4" revolver. This would give you a better baseline on a realistic power factor.

+ 1 for that idea. And lets bring the 5" barrel back for the revolvers...or else make the all the bottom feeders go down to a 4" barrel as well.

Don't understand the 4" revolver thing myself. My 625 definitely seems to have more recoil at 170 pf than my 1911 or 2011 CDP guns do. Repeal the JM rule and let the 5" revolvers play.

[Steve Koski]

I think 165 pf for 45 ACP is pathetic. C'mon. Give us army spec ammo, 230 gr at 885 +-25 FPS (taking the minus at 860 fps) is 197.8 pf. So dumb it down a bit to 825 fps and give us a power floor of 190.

165? for CDP? Come on. If you want to shoot antique guns, use real antique ammunition.