bigg_jon Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 I'm planning on having a limited gun built for next year, and I'm in a bit of mental turmoil. I'm currently shooting a single stack kimber in L-10 division and want to move into the limited class with an sti wideboy .40 blaster. I've handled some long/wide dustcover frames and like the feel and think I could benefit from the heavier frame, but I'm wondering if it is possible to simulate the feel with a short dustcover frame. I fear that when my skills improve (at least I hope they improve-I currently suck ) a lighter frame may be better to have. So my question is, can you make a short dustcover framed gun feel and react similarly to a long/wide dustcover framed gun by adding a bull barrel and tungsten guide rod, etc? Then if need be I can swap out the heavier components and add a bushing barrel? Or should I just go heavy and learn to shoot it? I've read the numerous posts stating that it's not the gun, but they guy behind it, and I completely agree, but I am just looking for a semi-technical response to see if it is possible to get a similar feel from a lighter frame. Either way I go (I'm currently leaning towards a long/wide frame) I need to practice a lot to become better. Thank you very much for your info, jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bulm5 Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 it is really a personal preference. I would try both. I personally like a heavy long dustcover gun. I can track the sights better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 There is sort of a discussion on it here. Conventional wisdom states that lighter guns are snappier in recoil thus letting you bring the sights down faster. The downside is that it is more difficult to control. I personally like heavy guns for shooting limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Also look here in the Tricks and Tips section: http://www.brazoscustom.com/Home.htm Bob has an excellent article about your dilema. I'm personally going to go with a short dust cover, bull barrel, and standard guide rod. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORCA Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 I've got three limited guns, a light SVI, a wide body STI, and a wide body STI with a lightened slide. I've had heavy components in the SVI and it doesn't make a lot of difference. I've also tried firing pin stops with various radiuses and not noticed much difference. The heavy guns have less percieved recoil, and I can't tell much difference between them. The one with the lightened slide sights might not lift quite as much as the completely heavy but the difference is minimal. All of the combinations are good, the differences just aren't that dramatic between any of them, unless you are really recoil sensitive. As is the conventional wisdom pick one and shoot. Really, it is the singer not the song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Suber Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 I have been shooting an STI Edge with full length dust cover, full size slide, and bull barrel. Yes, the felt recoil seems softer but it feel very heavy, now. I have been using 165 grn bullets in an effort to "Speed things" up and it has helped, but I am still not where I want to be. I have noticed that if I have to index a long way to the next target, I am having a tough time stopping the gun where I want it. So, I am having one built now with a full length dust cover (lightened) and a lightened Classic slide and bushing barrel. I am trying to get a slide that cycles fast. I don't think that I am that sensative to recoil so the lighter top-end "shouldn't" bother me. If I decide it is still too heavy, I will have the frame chopped. If its too light, I can add a tungsten guiderod, or, in worst case scenario have a bull barrel installed. I should have the gun in 3 weeks. I am looking forward to playing with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORCA Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Going with a long heavy dust cover for now and having cosmetic lightening cuts put in later is also an option. I shoot 155gr bullets, 180s seem like the gun cycles slowly and flips more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Going with a long heavy dust cover for now and having cosmetic lightening cuts put in later is also an option.I shoot 155gr bullets, 180s seem like the gun cycles slowly and flips more. I shoot 200's and a heavy gun and it feels slow, but the sights barely leave the notch using a RM. It feels sort of like a sling shot compared to a light gun, but you barely have to hold the thing, and to me the more relaxed I am holding the gun the faster I shoot. I don't understand the whole problem stopping on a target thing with a heavier gun I've never really noticed a difference on the timer. I think some call snappy quick and sluggish slow, but the gun cycles so much faster than we can shoot it that it really doesn't matter. You can go as far as you want with any gun, Rob Leatheam shoots a 5 lb limited pistol (exageration but close.) As long as it runs 100% and you like the sights and trigger the rest is insignificant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoNsTeR Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Just put a 6" slide on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Posted May 21, 2004 Share Posted May 21, 2004 Monster, I like the cuts out front! I'm going to try something similar when my 5" Short block gets here. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bulm5 Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 Going with a long heavy dust cover for now and having cosmetic lightening cuts put in later is also an option.I shoot 155gr bullets, 180s seem like the gun cycles slowly and flips more. I shoot 200's and a heavy gun and it feels slow, but the sights barely leave the notch using a RM. It feels sort of like a sling shot compared to a light gun, but you barely have to hold the thing, and to me the more relaxed I am holding the gun the faster I shoot. I don't understand the whole problem stopping on a target thing with a heavier gun I've never really noticed a difference on the timer. I think some call snappy quick and sluggish slow, but the gun cycles so much faster than we can shoot it that it really doesn't matter. You can go as far as you want with any gun, Rob Leatheam shoots a 5 lb limited pistol (exageration but close.) As long as it runs 100% and you like the sights and trigger the rest is insignificant. Same as mine, I like a heavy gun and I shoot 200 zeros. I like mine soft shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucas Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 What i did was try a SVI 40 heavy long dust cover, since that was all the rage when it first came out and for me it just never felt right always to heavy up front as compared to my reg dust cover STI 45 i had been using.Frustrated, i finally sent it to benny hill which promptly cut the dust cover back and scalluped the slide and although it only took very little weight off ,so far seems to point better like my STI feels with the weight more feeling at the center of the gun closer to my hand than all up front at the end as it did before.I will know more at my next tactical match this sunday, if its my imagination or not.The good news is ,if it still needs more i will still have other options yet , like fluting or turning down my bull barrel and or lightning the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted May 22, 2004 Share Posted May 22, 2004 I shoot an SV .40 long dust cover in limited. It is heavy but I find that it is definitely less punishing during matches and long practice sessions. In heavier recoiling calibers like .40 and .45, I like the extra weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigg_jon Posted May 25, 2004 Author Share Posted May 25, 2004 Wow, thanks for all the information. I have decided to stick with my original plan of going with the long/wide dustcover. I'm sure I'll have more questions for you soon . Thanks again for your input. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 John-I've been shooting a SVI wide full lenth dust cover with bull barell and tungsten guide rod. I went with all of the heavy components with the idea that I can allways lighten the frame and slide if it is necessary. I have taken out the tungsten rod and put in a steel one, but have always gone back to the heavy gun. I shot another guys gun that was setup the same, except for the guide rod. He had a recoil master that is a lot lighter than the tungsten rod, and the gun was very snappy and the sights would rise higher. I would do a 6" slide if I could go back and do it over again. Good luck, Kirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 One well known SV shooter cuts an inch or so off his heavy dust cover. Check your Front Sight covers. As for getting to the point where the weight of the gun makes a difference, almost all if not all of the top shooters could take a good gun of any flavor make it fly. Nate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistolskytte Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 There is one more option, actually... You can start out with an add-on barrel weight. I'm not sure how practical this is with a widebody STI (Still waiting for my Edge), but I shoot a H&K USP Expert, and that's a seriously light gun! I added a 240 gram weight in the accessory rail, which makes it feel like a totally different gun. It's a good spot for the weight, as the gun cycles exactly like before, but is quite nose-heavy. And the weight can be removed in seconds, or replaced with a lighter one as your skills improve. Pistolskytte, Denmark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Go ahead and get the long heavy. If you grow tired of it handling like a dump truck, you can always mill it off as I did mine. I discovered by accident that I was quicker and just as accurate with my stock Springfield .45 than I was with my long, wide, heavy barrelled STI .40. I milled the dust cover off several years ago and then went to a standard weight bushing-type barrel when the major PF floor was lowered to 165. This is a very subjective judgement, but I prefer the untamed recoil of a .40 major load to a gun that feels like a sledgehammer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chp5 Posted May 26, 2004 Share Posted May 26, 2004 Go ahead and get the long heavy. If you grow tired of it handling like a dump truck, you can always mill it off as I did mine. I'll add to Sam's comments. Get a blued gun and then it's easier to start milling off parts. I did the same thing as Sam, but my Edge is chromed and it makes refinishing the gun more expensive/complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted June 6, 2004 Share Posted June 6, 2004 man i like monsters 6 inch SV, nice gun, im currently shooting glock 34 in production, and i have a single stack 45 im gonna wring out when the matches start back here, this is the weekend for the area 4 championship match, i unfortunatly didnt get to go. who did the lightening cuts in the slide? i like them, man they sure look nice. im planning on building a limited STI 6 inch gun, short dustcover, bull barrel, tungsten guide rod. hopefully mine will be as nice as yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoNsTeR Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 BrianH did all the work, www.experimentalmachining.com I'm sure he'd be glad to build you one too! I'd recommend you get a steel guide rod in addition to your tungsten unit. My gun has quite a bit of weight out front even with a bushing barrel and steel rod, going to a bull barrel and tungsten rod might be excessive. It's all preference of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted June 16, 2004 Share Posted June 16, 2004 Well i got to shoot my single stack gun in a match sunday, its bushing gun, steel rod. with 174 pf loads (i thought)i get some muzzle flip, but its by no means excessive. on the first stage i got the gun out of the holster pretty quick, aimed and fired. with the adrenaline going, the gun felt like it had malfunctioned, a quick glance at the slide showed the hammer had recocked and the gun was in battery. I fired again and a gain. no malfunctions. The gun shot sooo much softer than my lightweight production glock. I thought my loads were a little tardy on the powerfactor, but they were slamming the steel down better than the supers. when i got home i chronographed the suspect loads and they were shooting right on 822 fps. 3.9 grains of Clays, federal primer and 230 lead bullet in 95 degree weather was making about 190 pf. The difference was that i had been practicing with the same load and the gun had a shock buff in it. I took it out when i was cleaning it and never put it back in. the gun shoots sooooo much softer without the buff than it did withit. none of my guns are ever gettting buffs again. I want to build a limited gun soon, but i also have the bug for one of those loud open guns. i guess i will end up with both of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Suber Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 I thought I would share pictures of my new pistol. The pistol was built by Derek Janowicz of Millennium Custom (Actually its a rebuild. I sent him my old edge and he put a new top end on it and refinished it). It is an STI Edge with a full length dust cover and classic slide. The slide and frame have been lightened with the channels cut into the side. In addition, the slide has been "shaved" on the sides in front of the rear cocking serrations. The top of the slide has also been flattened. This pistol has a Nowlin bushing barrel. Derek made a reverse plug with a flange on the end to hold the bushing in place. The idea behind this is for this is for the pressure of recoil to be applied to the shoulder of the reverse plug and not on the bushing itself - so the bushing won't break. He recessed the ejection port to expose the extractor a little. This is to keep dirt from building up there and make it easy to brush out. He installed a long firing pin and ejector. You will notice that I have one Swenson safety on it which I installed. Derek polished it and contoured it for me. He does not like installing Swensons. The finish is a black tungsten carbide finish. It is finish is very lick and supposedly very thin and durable. At the moment it has a stainless steel guiderod but I will using a Sprinco in it as soon as it arrives. The gun is VERY light and shoots beautifully. The only loads that are not fun to shoot are 165s and lighter. 180s and especially 200s feel great. The sight tracks very well. I apologize for the size of the pictures - I haven't had time to reduce them. Take care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Bagnato Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 Very nice Jack good luck with it. My Limited gun Long Wide Frame, full profile slide and bull barrel by Brazos Custom. Lighther reciprocating mass. You can always chop the frame and add a bushing barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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