Sierra 69's or 77's

[Chuckdee]

Hello Everyone,

I've been lurking on this forum too long, and have finally come up with a question.

Is there any significant reason to try 77 SMK when I am pretty happy using 69's at long distances (300-500yrds)? Are they worth slight difference in cost? Also, is H335 a bad idea to use with 77's in an 18" 1-8 barrel?

BTW, I like the fact that I can use H335 on my plinkers (55 grain ball) and long distance 69 grain "match" type ammo.

Thank you,

Charles

[prreed10]

Are you shooting for group size or just trying ro hit a steel target for say 3 gun?

I shoot mine in 3 gun, so accuracy is important, but not as important as with the precision rifle guys. I loaded up 69's & 77's for my rifle. I got much better groups with the 77's so I went with them. Wish the 69's would have done better since they were cheaper. If your rifel shoots the 69's as good or better than the 77's, go with the less expensive bullet.

[AlamoShooter]

Of the two guns I use for three gun , nether barrels like the 77s as much as the 69 Sierra, I have a Firebird upper and a JP upper. 1 in 8 twist. Not a much difference in size, but the 77 was not better so i will stick with the 69 from now on.

I wanted them to be better and invested some time into adjusting the load, still no improvement. so I am giving up on them

[DWFAN]

My JP 1:8 shoots the 69's better than the 77's. Also shoots the 60gr VMAX stupidly well also. I just havent been able to get long enough distance to try the 60 vs 69.

If you're happy with the 69gr, no need to change.

Edited October 19, 2011 by DWFAN

[twodownzero]

Heavier bullets go further. Lighter ones are usually flatter shooting and thus easier to shoot if the range is such that the lighter bullets are still supersonic.

The 69s are still supersonic at 500 just fine, so they're probably easier to shoot than the 77s at that range.

The only time where one "must" choose a heavier bullet is where a lighter bullet won't stay supersonic at the desired range. Otherwise shoot whatever works.

[Ben Diss]

77 gr out of an 18" 1-8 barrel is marginal for stability. Make sure you push it fast or it might not be stable enough for long distance. 69 is a good choice. For the math behind this, read Litz's book.

[Chuckdee]

Thanks for the info guys! I'll probably just stick with the 69'ers for now.. I'm not really going for 1" groups at 300yrds. I'm just hitting steel for three gun. I could understand using them for longer distances and/or in manual rifles, but I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Thanks again!!

[dauntedfuture]

I have had much better success with all the 77's than the 69's. If you want to spend the money Berger and Lapua make some great 77's. From shooting of highpower I can tell you that there is a real difference with wind drift at 300 yds between the 69's and 77's to the tune of about 2.5 to 3" or about one MOA from a 20" DCM gun.

[Graham Smith]

Just a suggestion for anyone contemplating this same issue. JBM Ballistics has a really good calculator that can take some of the guesswork out of things. If you take typical loads for two bullets and plug them into the calculator, it can tell you what you can expect to see under different conditions. You may be surprised at what you find.

[MustangGreg66]

Going a diffrent direction. The new Hornaday 53gr V-max is an awesome bullet. It has a ballistic coefficient of 0.290 compared to the 0.301-0.305 you're going to get with the 69 Sierra and it's 16gr lighter. I'm able to push the 53gr V-max to around 3130 easily in my 18" DPMS barrel. I didn't even work up to max with H335, just stopped when the primers started to flatten around the endges.

At this velocity vs the 69 @ 2900fps, the V-Max is faster, flatter and drifts almost the same in the wind out to 900yds using Sierra Ballistics Infinity 5.0 software. The only place the 69 has an edge is in energy. It consistantly has about 100ft/lbs of energy more than the V-Max out as far as you'd want to shoot. The 53gr V-max actually does a very good job of imulating the SS109 bullet that my Burris Tac30 reticle was designed for.

I had no problem hitting the 370yd Larue's at the USPSA Multi-Gun Nationals this last weekend, though neither did my friend shooting 69gr Sierras. I shoot the 55gr Hornadays for hoser stages and anything under 200yds and now I'm going to use the 53gr V-max for anything long range for Multi-Gun. The V-max is about 1" flatter than the 55s at 200 so I just zero with the 53s and I'm pretty close with the 55s for everything close in.

To answer your question, I don't see any reason to go to the 77s from the 69s unless you have a longer barrel to push the 77s fast and need the edge in the wind. You could switch laterally to the Hornaday 68gr HPBT, it has a BC of 0.355 compared to the 69s 0.301-0.305

These are just my opinions and observations and while I may be a fan of the Hornaday bullets, I don't work for them or anything like that.

Out of curiosity, do you see any horizontal POI shift between the 55s and 69s? A couple friends of mine had mentioned that in their barrels and in their testing that they did.

[dauntedfuture]

Lighter bullets drop less. Heavy bullets buck the wind better. 99.9% of all AR-15 HP shooters at camp perry are shooting at least 69 BTHP bullets at 300+ yds. Very few shoot anything lighter at 200.

[Mike Morcillo]

I use the heavier bullets for the reactive targets at long range, like Larue. I want to se the movement, and so does the RO. I'm limited to 68gr because of barrel twist rate, but they work fine, POA-POI for both is real close because the loads run 200 FPS different. 55gr FMJBT Hornady for everything else. Your call.

[grant22]

As a non-competitive target shooter, I'm trying to figure out if given the choice of Sierra MK or Hornady Match, which is the better choice? Similar cost, similar weights, but want to buy the better bullet.

THX

[dauntedfuture]

The easy answer is buy a sample of each to test with the same load. I would reccomend 24 RL15 and a 7 1/2 in trimmed cases. More HP shooters shoot sierras than all others combined. twist rate is a mute point on 68 vs. 69 bullets. A 1/9 will stabilise both bullets.

[dkleskiw]

Also remember that the BC published by the manufacturer might be slightly inflated. But what some companies publish are quite accurate. I don't know how other places do it, but I trust the way Sierra determines it. But I'm biased

Given the choice, I'd shoot 69s. The shooter will unlikely squeeze out the extra performance of the 77. Holds / drops will be different, but I'm happy with shooting 69s.

[Graham Smith]

As a non-competitive target shooter, I'm trying to figure out if given the choice of Sierra MK or Hornady Match, which is the better choice? Similar cost, similar weights, but want to buy the better bullet.

Why? This is not intended as a flippant question.

What kind of shooting are you doing? At what distance? What kind of targets? What length barrel? What twist? Suppressed or not?

Bullet weight, type, load, etc is all a matter of creating a round that is suitable to a specific gun for a specific purpose. Without the purpose you cannot determine which is the better choice.

[DWFAN]

The easy answer is buy a sample of each to test with the same load. I would reccomend 24 RL15 and a 7 1/2 in trimmed cases. More HP shooters shoot sierras than all others combined. twist rate is a mute point on 68 vs. 69 bullets. A 1/9 will stabilise both bullets.

I did this, and couldnt get either of the Hornady Match HP's (68 and 75gr) to shoot near as well as the Sierra 69 or 77 MK's, and even the Hornady 60gr VMAX. JP CTR-02, 18inch 1:8.

ETA: I'm not saying Sierra's are better, there are some very accomplished 3 gun shooters that use Hornady, and get them to shoot very well. I'm saying they shot better in my gun, at the OAL's and powder charges I tried.

Edited October 27, 2011 by DWFAN

[grant22]

The easy answer is buy a sample of each to test with the same load. I would reccomend 24 RL15 and a 7 1/2 in trimmed cases. More HP shooters shoot sierras than all others combined. twist rate is a mute point on 68 vs. 69 bullets. A 1/9 will stabilise both bullets.

I did this, and couldnt get either of the Hornady Match HP's (68 and 75gr) to shoot near as well as the Sierra 69 or 77 MK's, and even the Hornady 60gr VMAX. JP CTR-02, 18inch 1:8.

THANKS, That's all I was looking for.

Regardless of twist, length, range, etc etc etc, I just needed to know in any given target shooting situation, which of the two brands were better. Thanks again.

[jdknotts1]

Out of curiosity, do you see any horizontal POI shift between the 55s and 69s? A couple friends of mine had mentioned that in their barrels and in their testing that they did.

I get a good bit of horizontal shift between 55gr and 69gr bullets. For the little 3gun I've shot so far, I have been using 55gr on the hoser targets and the 69gr on anything 100yds and beyond. I shoot a Colt 6920 with a 1:7 twist. I've heard that shooting the 55gr will tend to foul the barrel very quickly and diminishing the accuracy. Any truth to this? Is the reason for the horizontal shift because of the fast twist destabilizing the smaller bullet? Like a wobbling football?

If there is any truth behind the fouling, I will discontinue the use and move to something a bit bigger for the hoser targets.

[DyNo!]

I've heard that shooting the 55gr will tend to foul the barrel very quickly and diminishing the accuracy. Any truth to this?

Nope.

In a match where you fire 200 rounds through your rifle over three days, no need to worry about that.

[Akkid17]

I'm seeing a lot of votes for 65-69 gr bullets for the 200+ portion of 3-gun. I'm currently getting my poop in a group for going to Texas multigun in April and I am at the cut off point for bullet prep and testing. I initially read a lot of bullseye shooter stuff , since I believe it stands to reason you go to the group that does something the most for advice, which had a ton of rec's for 77 smks and even some saying 80's of some flavor. 80's are a bit much for not single loading so I started looking into 7X's and thought that was what I should go with, basically 77 smk being the go to long ranger, but now am thinking 65-69 gr is where it's at for three/multigun. Is my logic flawed here? I'm just getting a little burned out on all the possibilities.

Thanks

My guns are all 5.56 chamber and 16" barrel. Both love xm193 at 100 but after 200 they get a little squirrelly

[rooster mcbee]

My Colt 1/7 twist loves the 69 gr sierra's with Varget powder. I never could get 77 Bergers to shoot as well as the 69's. I shot the 69 gr. in several 3 Gun Nats. and was always happy with their performance. For the close range courses the regular old 55 gr bullets worked for me, but when I wanted to stretch it out a ways, the 69's got the call.