I have an issue and I need help and advice, please read.

[Chills1994]

[Merlin Orr] "I'll buy it off you for two hundred dollars. " [/Merlin Orr]

(trying to inject some levity here)

[ima45dv8]

Thank you to everyone who responded and for an update I did talk to STI and they said they would fix the gun.

Cool.

But I would like to add this, it seems like some people want to just take the buyers side by default but I did disclose any and all issue I knew about (which was a broken slide stop only)and I shipped them a gun that ran perfect when it left my possesion. The gun was sold as is and was discounted heavily off what a new gun and 4 tuned mags would cost. There is no way that I could have forseen that a barrel think would break and if I would have I would rather had it happen to me and had it fixed. I guess my point is if you put yourself in my shoes (the seller) how should I potentially get screwed on a deal that I did nothing wrong in and could have done nothing to prevent.

I don't embrace the concept that EITHER of you is "getting screwed", if you do the right thing. From what I can see, neither of you had that intent so the suggestion is maybe out of place.

My last point is this and I would like to see what others think and I hope the buyer is reading this thread. If the buyer had the gun for two weeks or two months and the link broke would they still be able to say i did something wrong. gMy point is that guns arent immune from having issue and where is the line drawn that is there problem or my problem. Sence it was only a few rounds its my problem but if they put 1k rnds through it it is all of the sudden there problem. The fact is that I sold them a gun in good faith and there is nothing i could have done besides have powers to see the future that could have prevented this problem. I feel like that if STI is willing to fix the gun, and they are, that I souldnt feel obliagated to refund the money. I may choose to do so like someone said just to make sure I didnt have disgruntled dealings but returning a gun isnt like taking something back to walmart. I'm going to have to have it transfered back to me and pay shipping costs and everything else associated with this and for what, because they dont want to hassle with sending it back to STI. To me thats unreasonable, but thoughts...

If you bought a used a car and it blew up less then 24 hours later, within 30 minutes of your first test drive, how would you feel? Not too happy, I suppose. You might reasonably expect a return on your investment.

You asked for thoughts, so I'll repeat mine here. Return the money (unless it's already spent) and repair the issue on your own dime. This isn't about anyone "getting screwed". It's about maintaining your own good name in this rather small community.

Another thought, this is a what if senario but could very well happen.

STI told me that they would fix gun as long as it wasnt caused by human error like a bad reload (double charge, etc.). So lets say I refund the money, get the gun back, send it to STI and STI tells me the they did something to break the gun and now Im stuck trying to get them to refund me money for their error. I cant be sure of how the gun was handle once it left my possesion. This is another reason I think they should send the gun to STI and if STI fixes it and says they did nothing wrong and they still want there money back then that is a different story. Thoughts on this?

Frankly, that's lame. You've tried several times to deflect or infer some wrong-doing onto the buyers. They're noobs excited to buy their first limited gun. If the idea is they used bad ammo (double-charged was the inferred defect), it would have done much more and different damage than a broken link. A ka-boom would exhibit entirely different results.

Bottom line....do you still have their money? If not, that's a sitution that could possibly be resolved with the buyer in an ammicable manner. I probably would have spent it on a new blaster with 10 minutes of receipt, and many others would, too. Hardly an unreasonable position.

Talk to them and work something out where you make them whole again. Antiquated as it sounds, that's the right thing to do.

[GuyC]

Taking the buyers side for a moment...

There is no way that I could have forseen that a barrel think would break and if I would have I would rather had it happen to me and had it fixed.

umm... the slide stop broke.

How would you feel if you bought a gun that broke the barrel link in less than 50 rounds? Lets say you never even took it apart and went out to shoot your brand new gun and it broke in less than 50 rounds? You telling me you wouldn't be upset? Are you saying you wouldn't want your money back? Seriously?

As the buyer, I would be looking at the for sale ad. In the ad, you state it broke the slide stop. You knew it should not break and you replaced it without repairing what caused it to break. How is that "in good faith"? Then you claim the 4 mags were in excelent condition. Every pic you posted of them they are turned everytime so you can only see the feed lips on one mag. Is that good faith too? I can see in one of the pics a flat spot on the feed lips on one of them.

I guess my point is if you put yourself in my shoes (the seller) how should I potentially get screwed on a deal that I did nothing wrong in and could have done nothing to prevent

It's not about getting screwed. It's about doing the right thing.

I know there is now way for you to know this because you never saw the broken slide stop. The slide stop broke on the out side of the gun because STI slide stops suck. I had a sti slide stop on my edge that broke in the same spot. The broken slide stop has nothing to do with the link being to short. It came from the factory like that. There is a way to check for the link being to short, but who thinks to do that.

Edited October 6, 2011 by GuyC

[ima45dv8]

I know there is now way for you to know this because you never saw the broken slide stop. The slide stop broke on the out side of the gun because STI slide stops suck. I had a sti slide stop on my edge that broke in the same spot. The broken slide stop has nothing to do with the link being to short. It came from the factory like that. There is a way to check for the link being to short, but who thinks to do that does.

Guy, I hear what you're saying, but really, does that matter?

I don't blame Zack for advertising it as a gun that runs, which immediately failed. How could he know?

The issue is repairing not only the gun but the situation. I couldn't predict a crankshaft severing a day after a sale, either, but if it happened, I'd still think the right thing to do is make it right with the buyer.

I'm sure Zack is a good guy. Here's a chance to prove it.

[joebob]

Taking the buyers side for a moment...

There is no way that I could have forseen that a barrel think would break and if I would have I would rather had it happen to me and had it fixed.

umm... the slide stop broke.

How would you feel if you bought a gun that broke the barrel link in less than 50 rounds? Lets say you never even took it apart and went out to shoot your brand new gun and it broke in less than 50 rounds? You telling me you wouldn't be upset? Are you saying you wouldn't want your money back? Seriously?

As the buyer, I would be looking at the for sale ad. In the ad, you state it broke the slide stop. You knew it should not break and you replaced it without repairing what caused it to break. How is that "in good faith"? Then you claim the 4 mags were in excelent condition. Every pic you posted of them they are turned everytime so you can only see the feed lips on one mag. Is that good faith too? I can see in one of the pics a flat spot on the feed lips on one of them.

I guess my point is if you put yourself in my shoes (the seller) how should I potentially get screwed on a deal that I did nothing wrong in and could have done nothing to prevent

It's not about getting screwed. It's about doing the right thing.

I think these are valid points, and I agree with you about the slide stop part of it but in my defense I'm not a gun smith and dont claim to be and when I called STI about the broken slide stop they never said anything about other issues and just sent me a new one. I did do some research on STI slide stops and I did see people saying that are not the best and have seen them break before. So I didnt automatically assume that there was more issues with the gun, if STI said heres a new one and your good to go thats was good enough for me.

And as far as doing the right thing, that is why I am on here talking to other and getting opinions and I think the seller would agree I have been more than nice and I have returned phone calls and not ran and hid or anything of that sort. I do want to make sure this situation gets resolved in a way that treats both of fairly.

And as far as being screwed, I have no way of knowing how the gun was treated once it left my possesion. Am I accusing the buyer of any worng doing, NO but I do want to protect myself because not everyone is honest.

And yes I would be upset if this happened to me but I dont know about everyone elses lives but mine isnt always the smoothest. Sometimes things happen that dont go my way but I look for intent. If I thought the person sent me a gun they knew was broken I would be more than pissed but if it was out of their control I would still be pissed but not at them or think they wronged me.

Edited October 6, 2011 by joebob

[ima45dv8]

And as far as being screwed, I have no way of knowing how the gun was treated once it left my possesion. Am I accusing the buyer of any wornd doing, NO but I do want to protect myslef because not everyone is honest.

These sort of comments seem to be pointed attempts to cast doubt upon the buyers. What evidence is there of wrong-doing on their part? Wouldn't it be equally as fair for you to state you also have no reason to doubt their honesty?

And yes I would be upset if this happened to me but I dont know about everyone elses lives but mine isnt always the smoothest. Sometimes things happen that dont go my way but I look for intent. If I thought the person sent me a gun they knew was broken I would be more than pissed but if it was out of their control I would still be pissed but not at them or think they wronged me.

I don't think the issue is whether they think you wronged them prior to sending the gun. The issue is whether you're going to do the right thing for them after finding is was defective.

[joebob]

Another thought, this is a what if senario but could very well happen.

STI told me that they would fix gun as long as it wasnt caused by human error like a bad reload (double charge, etc.). So lets say I refund the money, get the gun back, send it to STI and STI tells me the they did something to break the gun and now Im stuck trying to get them to refund me money for their error. I cant be sure of how the gun was handle once it left my possesion. This is another reason I think they should send the gun to STI and if STI fixes it and says they did nothing wrong and they still want there money back then that is a different story. Thoughts on this?

Frankly, that's lame. You've tried several times to deflect or infer some wrong-doing onto the buyers. They're noobs excited to buy their first limited gun. If the idea is they used bad ammo (double-charged was the inferred defect), it would have done much more and different damage than a broken link. A ka-boom would exhibit entirely different results.

Thats why I said "STI told me" beacase do I think that they used a double charged round, no probably not but when STI says that there are going to be checking for error on the user end then I want to make sure I dont refund the money and find out that they did do something wrong.

We can all sit here and say they did nothing wrong including me but none of use were with them and the gun, and when STI tells me that a double charged round or a "reloading error" could have possibility caused the error I take that more serious than an opionion on here (no offense) seeing that they build these guns everyday and as far as I know no one that has posted in the thread can say that.

And saying there noobs is not a good way to defend that they couldnt have made an error, again not saying that they did but I cant be sure of that because I wasnt there.

And to claify Im not accusing them of anything wrong doing, Im just try to protect myself and I dont see why you think that is unreasonable of me???

Edited October 6, 2011 by joebob

[ima45dv8]

Another thought, this is a what if senario but could very well happen.

STI told me that they would fix gun as long as it wasnt caused by human error like a bad reload (double charge, etc.). So lets say I refund the money, get the gun back, send it to STI and STI tells me the they did something to break the gun and now Im stuck trying to get them to refund me money for their error. I cant be sure of how the gun was handle once it left my possesion. This is another reason I think they should send the gun to STI and if STI fixes it and says they did nothing wrong and they still want there money back then that is a different story. Thoughts on this?

Frankly, that's lame. You've tried several times to deflect or infer some wrong-doing onto the buyers. They're noobs excited to buy their first limited gun. If the idea is they used bad ammo (double-charged was the inferred defect), it would have done much more and different damage than a broken link. A ka-boom would exhibit entirely different results.

Thats why I said "STI told me" beacase do I think that they used a double charged round, no probably not but when STI says that there are going to be checking for error on the user end then I want to make sure I dont refund the money and find out that they did do something wrong.

We can all sit here and say they did nothing wrong including me but none of use were with them and the gun, and when STI tells me that a double charged round or a "reloading error" could have possibility caused the error I take that more serious than an opionion on here (no offense) seeing that they build these guns everyday and as far as I know no one that has posted in the thread can say that.

And saying there noobs is not a good way to defend that couldnt have made an error, again not that they did but I cant be sure of that because I wasnt there.

Now you sound like you came here only to get support for not returning their money. And when you didn't get that, you're falling back on, "Well....STI said..."

You made the point that none of us was there with them and the gun. Neither was STI.

[Chills1994]

major....major thread drift ahead...

way back when, when I was trying to go to grad school for psychology, I had to perform some experiments that involved statistical analyses. Academia is so concerned about ethics in performing experiments now that we are basically left with doing observations and taking surveys (see also the Milgram experiment and the Stanford prison study).

So one day it struck me. I could do an observational study of people going through the drive thru at some fast food joint. You remember the first Lethal Weapon movie with Joe Pesci in the back seat of the station wagon, "THEY ALWAYS #$%$ YOU AT THE DRIVE THRU!....THEY ALWAYS #$%^ YOU AT THE DRIVE THRU!"

So I sat there in my truck incognito in a parking lot and watched people pick up their food at the drive thru window. I annotated if they were male or female and if they went through the bag first before they drove off, to see if their order was correct. By a margin of easily of 3 to 1, men checked the bag versus the women.

So in gearing up for this study, I had to go online and to the college's library and print off a lot of the research that dealt with the perceived equality of transactions.

Turns out there are four, what are called "justices" that the so called psychology experts have decided upon that affect how the parties involved in a transaction perceive the outcome of the transaction.

Ahh...jeeshh....I can't remember what all four of the justices were called. Probably something like distributive, and transitive.

Anywhooo... I guess the point I am trying to get at is that my research and all the other previous research has bore this simple fact out: males are less trusting of any transaction, when compared to women.

So yeah, hate to say it, but I think you should just throttle back on the testosterone, kinda swallow your pride, get the gun back, and send them their money, and call it a day. Then you can send the gun off to STI if you want to.

Life is full of compromises. And what I am suggesting, to me anyway, seems to be the fairest to all parties concerned.

[Chills1994]

oh, yeah, if I ever do sell anything via this forum, I think I will make it point to say "as is" and maybe even provide the link to this thread as to why.

[twodownzero]

I read almost all of this thread and while I was on the side of "give him his money and take care of it," after further consideration, I'm going to go against the grain here.

You are not an insurer of your used product. An STI Edge with 2500 rounds is a good gun worth most of the value of a new one, and it carries a lifetime warranty from the manufacturer. STI has been an excellent supporter of our sport and would unquestionably fix it at no charge in any event--they wouldn't want anyone to think that they don't stand behind their product.

It is very unfortunate that the gun broke so quickly. It's a shame and a scar on the transaction. Also, it's possible, perhaps even likely, that the previous broken slide stop and the now-broken barrel link are related. Either way, unless you misrepresented what you were selling or the condition, I will go against the grain and say that you have no obligation to refund the purchaser's money or deal with him so long as you delivered what a reasonable person would think he was getting in the negotiation you guys had.

If the guy wanted an STI Edge, and you delivered that, and STI continues to stand behind their product, then when this is all said and done--by no fault of yours--she will still have an STI Edge, in the same condition promised, perhaps with a better fit barrel and a personal hand polishing from a skilled gunsmith at STI.

Even if STI wouldn't stand behind the gun, I still don't think you'd have any obligation to cover his losses, just as you wouldn't have any obligation if you sold someone a used truck and it blew up the next day. Potential issues are part of the cost of buying a used product, and I factor that possibility into every single used purchase that I make.

Being generous is not an obligation and giving in to the peer pressure here won't make you a better person. If you want to take care of it, do so. But if you're convinced that what the buyer really wanted was an STI Edge and four magazines, and that's what you sent her, you're under no obligation to insure her purchase.

Personally, if I were her, I'd be bummed, but I'd get over it. Before I lightened the slide on my STI Eagle, I emailed STI's warranty department to ask if they'd still honor my warranty after I cut it. They told me directly that they would stand behind it unless my gunsmith's work caused the problem, and I continue to buy, recommend, and shoot STI's products because that's the kind of company with which I want to do business.

There's an icing on the cake for this whole transaction anyway. Besides the cost of sending the gun back to STI, it's going to get a once over by someone who really knows those guns inside and out. That's something that most of us who are shooting mass-produced guns will never have.

All this talk about 'fairness' seems awfully one sided. Once he has delivered the product that he promised, his obligations end. I can understand why people would want him to help the buyer out as a kind gesture, but the suggestion that this is necessary screams entitlement to me.

Edited October 6, 2011 by twodownzero

[ajg308]

Thank you to everyone who responded and for an update I did talk to STI and they said they would fix the gun.

Cool.

But I would like to add this, it seems like some people want to just take the buyers side by default but I did disclose any and all issue I knew about (which was a broken slide stop only)and I shipped them a gun that ran perfect when it left my possesion. The gun was sold as is and was discounted heavily off what a new gun and 4 tuned mags would cost. There is no way that I could have forseen that a barrel think would break and if I would have I would rather had it happen to me and had it fixed. I guess my point is if you put yourself in my shoes (the seller) how should I potentially get screwed on a deal that I did nothing wrong in and could have done nothing to prevent.

I don't embrace the concept that EITHER of you is "getting screwed", if you do the right thing. From what I can see, neither of you had that intent so the suggestion is maybe out of place.

My last point is this and I would like to see what others think and I hope the buyer is reading this thread. If the buyer had the gun for two weeks or two months and the link broke would they still be able to say i did something wrong. gMy point is that guns arent immune from having issue and where is the line drawn that is there problem or my problem. Sence it was only a few rounds its my problem but if they put 1k rnds through it it is all of the sudden there problem. The fact is that I sold them a gun in good faith and there is nothing i could have done besides have powers to see the future that could have prevented this problem. I feel like that if STI is willing to fix the gun, and they are, that I souldnt feel obliagated to refund the money. I may choose to do so like someone said just to make sure I didnt have disgruntled dealings but returning a gun isnt like taking something back to walmart. I'm going to have to have it transfered back to me and pay shipping costs and everything else associated with this and for what, because they dont want to hassle with sending it back to STI. To me thats unreasonable, but thoughts...

If you bought a used a car and it blew up less then 24 hours later, within 30 minutes of your first test drive, how would you feel? Not too happy, I suppose. You might reasonably expect a return on your investment.

You asked for thoughts, so I'll repeat mine here. Return the money (unless it's already spent) and repair the issue on your own dime. This isn't about anyone "getting screwed". It's about maintaining your own good name in this rather small community.

Another thought, this is a what if senario but could very well happen.

STI told me that they would fix gun as long as it wasnt caused by human error like a bad reload (double charge, etc.). So lets say I refund the money, get the gun back, send it to STI and STI tells me the they did something to break the gun and now Im stuck trying to get them to refund me money for their error. I cant be sure of how the gun was handle once it left my possesion. This is another reason I think they should send the gun to STI and if STI fixes it and says they did nothing wrong and they still want there money back then that is a different story. Thoughts on this?

Frankly, that's lame. You've tried several times to deflect or infer some wrong-doing onto the buyers. They're noobs excited to buy their first limited gun. If the idea is they used bad ammo (double-charged was the inferred defect), it would have done much more and different damage than a broken link. A ka-boom would exhibit entirely different results.

Bottom line....do you still have their money? If not, that's a sitution that could possibly be resolved with the buyer in an ammicable manner. I probably would have spent it on a new blaster with 10 minutes of receipt, and many others would, too. Hardly an unreasonable position.

Talk to them and work something out where you make them whole again. Antiquated as it sounds, that's the right thing to do.

I disagree. Seller did not make the gun, he sold it as is. STI will fix it, let them honor their warranty.

[CSEMARTIN]

joebob, you asked us for our opinion, and I think we've been fair. I can see the concerns for both parties involved. You knew how the gun left, the buyer knows what happened when he got it. You don't know what he did once he received the gun. The seller can't know with 100% certainty that you didn't try to pull one over on him either. Technically, you sold the gun "as is", the gun left your hands running just fine, it got to him and the link pin broke. My best guess is there was something wrong with the gun from the moment it left STI. Why not take STI up on their offer and just let them fix the gun?

The gun needs to be repaired. That much we can all agree on, right?

Then, after STI has had a chance to look the gun over, everyone will know if "human error" is or isn't a factor.

Once the gun is fixed, then maybe the two of you will be able to come to an agreement on how to proceed......

Somebody is going to eat the cost of shipping. If I were the seller, I can honestly say that I would offer to pay shipping--either to STI for repair or back to me. Your reputation is worth far more than that. Like Mark said, this is a small world. You don't want hard feelings resulting in your reputation being tarnished. It's not worth it.

Figure out a way to get the gun into STI's hands. I don't see how you can wrong with taking that next step.

[ima45dv8]

All this talk about 'fairness' seems awfully one sided. Once he has delivered the product that he promised, his obligations end. I can understand why people would want him to help the buyer out as a kind gesture, but the suggestion that this is necessary screams entitlement to me.

Very well stated. You should go into the practice of law.

Your regard for the concept "doing the right thing" as an old fashioned, out-dated ideal doesn't diminish it's worth in the least.

[Chills1994]

I had bought four Beretta Brig Inox's off the Beretta forum. Beretta in their infinite wisdom decided to stop making them. So the only way for me to get one was to buy a used one off the Beretta forum.

The very first one was quite the leap of faith for me to do....send a money order of X hundreds of dollars to some stranger 500 miles away??? WHAT!

I think what has probably become the standard operating procedure on the Beretta forum was that there is a 7 day inspection period where there is to be no shooting of the gun. Once the gun is in the buyer's hands and it goes bang! that's it! all bets are off. it's definitely the buyer's then.

I think this whole situation could have been avoided if the parties involved had everything spelled out and agree'd to via PM before any money got sent via the USPS.

another thread drift ahead....

way back when, when I was a newb to shooting, I had a Colt 1911 that had a front sight that was working loose. So I had a local "smith" work on it at the recommendation of some other shooting acquaintances. I gave him the gun to work on to dovetail a front sight and cut the rear of the slide for a Bomar rear sight. I got the gun back from him. Took it to the range, and shot exactly three rounds through it before it crapped out. Huh!?

So I took it back to this "smith". He took it apart right in front of me, looked at the sear and goes, "Huh, that's weird! A cracked sear! I have never seen that before. HUH!"

So I let him hold onto the gun, put some better guts into it, and do a trigger job (remove the 80 series parts). That was somewhere between another three and four hundred dollars.

So I got it back, it ran fine. It just doesn't like SWC's. Still doesn't.

And then I started shooting matches some more. Learned a little bit more about how 1911's are put together and are smith'ed on. And then I started thinking.....

Hmmn....maybe to this "smith" I looked like I had sucker written on my forehead.

As far as I know, he could have just as easily inserted a cracked sear into the gun when he did the sights, and I would be none the wiser.

Since then, I have had plenty of people mention his name in passing while at matches along the lines of "I'm gonna have ______ do a trigger job on my Glock."

I make it a point to not say a thing. Hopefully, the people bringing up his name can infer something from my silence.

I have also seen this "smith's" guns not pass safety inspections at matches and I have personally seen, RO'ed shooters whose guns have been worked on by this guy that have doubled and tripled right in front of me.

What I am getting at is, well, if the seller doesn't feel satisfied with the transaction, he/she can always turn around and by word of mouth advertise against the seller or just buying stuff in general off the Brian Enos forums.

Of those four Beretta's I bought off the Beretta forum absolutely zero have required NO gunsmithing whatsoever. They just run and run and run. I really, really like not having to place my faith and guns in the hands of some "smith".

[Cy Soto]

All this talk about 'fairness' seems awfully one sided. Once he has delivered the product that he promised, his obligations end. I can understand why people would want him to help the buyer out as a kind gesture, but the suggestion that this is necessary screams entitlement to me.

I agree with twodownzero. A warranty was neither discussed nor offered with the purchase of this used item. The OP sold a working gun and sadly, a part broke shortly after the buyer received it. Guns are a mechanical device and as such they may fail. STI has said that they will repair any issues that the firearm may have. It is now up to the new owner to send his/her new pistol in for service.

[twodownzero]

All this talk about 'fairness' seems awfully one sided. Once he has delivered the product that he promised, his obligations end. I can understand why people would want him to help the buyer out as a kind gesture, but the suggestion that this is necessary screams entitlement to me.

Very well stated. You should go into the practice of law.

Your regard for the concept "doing the right thing" as an old fashioned, out-dated ideal doesn't diminish it's worth in the least.

1. Your contempt for my career choices doesn't make your suggestion pejorative, regardless of the underlying tone or its reasoning.

2. "Doing the right thing" is inherently subjective and I simply place the balance differently. As I see it, 'doing the right thing' is delivering what you promised. If you didn't promise that it'd go more than 50 rounds without an unexpected failure, then you've done your duty and owe nothing additional.

Saying that he owes more than he promised might seem like 'doing the right thing' to you, but that I don't agree with your viewpoint doesn't entitle you to belittle my viewpoint, which is not only well supported and reflected in the last thousand years of our legal and commercial system, but also entirely ethically sound until you can defend some general duty of sellers to warranty the product they're selling. If a seller of used goods had to warranty every transaction in which they entered, the price of a used gun would probably be so close to the price of a new one that nobody would want to buy it anyway--an end that'd be entirely inconsistent with the world of commerce in which we live. The idea that entirely reasonable people can't disagree on what 'doing the right thing' means doesn't seem like a 'forum' discussion to me. Insulting another poster for striking the balance in another place than where you strike it doesn't seem like good faith to me, but I'll let other readers decide.

If the seller promised a puppy and delivered a fish, we'd be having an entirely different discussion. Based on the information expressed in this thread, he delivered what he promised, and an unfortunate consequence was that someone, through the fault of neither party, was disappointed. Fortunately for both parties, a remedy exists--the manufacturer will fix the product and make both parties whole, free of charge. To me, I can't think of a more perfect outcome to such an undesirable scenario.

Edited October 6, 2011 by twodownzero

[hvsmith]

All this talk about 'fairness' seems awfully one sided. Once he has delivered the product that he promised, his obligations end. I can understand why people would want him to help the buyer out as a kind gesture, but the suggestion that this is necessary screams entitlement to me.

Very well stated. You should go into the practice of law.

Your regard for the concept "doing the right thing" as an old fashioned, out-dated ideal doesn't diminish it's worth in the least.

1. Your contempt for my career choices doesn't make your suggestion pejorative, regardless of the underlying tone or its reasoning.

2. "Doing the right thing" is inherently subjective and I simply place the balance differently. As I see it, 'doing the right thing' is delivering what you promised. If you didn't promise that it'd go more than 50 rounds without an unexpected failure, then you've done your duty and owe nothing additional.

Saying that he owes more than he promised might seem like 'doing the right thing' to you, but that I don't agree with your viewpoint doesn't entitle you to belittle my viewpoint, which is not only well supported and reflected in the last thousand years of our legal and commercial system, but also entirely ethically sound until you can defend some general duty of sellers to warranty the product they're selling. If a seller of used goods had to warranty every transaction in which they entered, the price of a used gun would probably be so close to the price of a new one that nobody would want to buy it anyway--an end that'd be entirely inconsistent with the world of commerce in which we live. The idea that entirely reasonable people can't disagree on what 'doing the right thing' means doesn't seem like a 'forum' discussion to me. Insulting another poster for striking the balance in another place than where you strike it doesn't seem like good faith to me, but I'll let other readers decide.

If the seller promised a puppy and delivered a fish, we'd be having an entirely different discussion. Based on the information expressed in this thread, he delivered what he promised, and an unfortunate consequence was that someone, through the fault of neither party, was disappointed. Fortunately for both parties, a remedy exists--the manufacturer will fix the product and make both parties whole, free of charge. To me, I can't think of a more perfect outcome to such an undesirable scenario.

You've attempted to justify your reasoning - I myself & I would guess in the neighborhood of 99% of Enos members would have just swallowed hard & taken the gun back. I personally couldn't live with myself not doing what's right, & would do the HONORABLE thing, take the Edge back & have STI fix it. You can continue your attempts to justify your thoughts, but my guess would be if you ever want to continue to be a part of the Enos family,as Nike says, "Just Do It", FWIW.

[SteveU]

So OP:

Did you get what you are looking for?

You have an opinion on your legal obligations, and an opInion on what many folks here would do to assuage their consciences and avoid the appearance of "ripping someone off" even though it was unintended.

That's why it's so smooth to so transactions with BE forum members. Most would bend over backwards to give you a fair deal.

I had a similar experience, traded a perfectly functioning CED 8000 away and it puked a month later. I felt like crap, buyer definitely felt he did not get value and I felt like I had ripped him off even though I didn't do anything wrong. I offered to take it back. He shipped to CED, they repaired and I split the cost 50/50. I think that was fair but who knows? I wish it hadn't happened and I feel for you and your buyer.

The good news is that once the dust settles, if they like the gun, everyone will be happy.

Edited October 6, 2011 by Surge

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

When I sell, I sell with the caveat "Three day inspection with return for any reason at buyers expense if unfired and not transferred from FFL"

I had 2 sales where the firearm was not to the liking of the buyer. One after several trips to the range and they had someone work on it. Sorry, your problem. The custom smith I had do original work would have solved any problem No charge.

The other was a 9MM AR that developed a trigger problem on the second trip to the range for the buyer. I paid to have a new trigger group installed.

I would not take either back. Sorry, read the disclaimer.

In this case, were I the seller, I would help the buyer get the gun repaired by STI and cover out of pocket expense but I would not take it back.

Best of luck to the buyer and the seller.

[NoSteel]

Your car breaks down on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere. The only passer by is the person you sold the gun to and basically told "it's yours now". They stop and give you a ride to the nearest garage after stopping and buying you lunch. How's the conscience doing then??? You just never know.....

[Vermilion]

I just have to say, after I had cash in hand and they received the item and were satisfied with it that was the end of the transaction. I couldn't refund the money after that because it would probably be spent at the moment I received the confirmation of them picking it up and acknowledging their satisfaction. If it was a catastrophic failure I would probably pay for shipping to the item/s manufacturer but that would be it UNLESS specifically specified in PM's or Emails.

[lugnut]

Interesting thread to say the least... it make you think about selling/buying used guns a tad. It's not trivial to return them... at least here in MA.

I'm off the thinking that I wouldn't be "obligated" to take it back. Personally though... I'm confident I'd do my best to make the buyer happy. Would I take it back without any attempt from the buyer to at least send it to STI (on my dime) and see what happens.... not sure honestly. I have to wonder though... what if I had sold this to my best friend... or a coworker.... would that have any impact on what I'd do? If so maybe I'd need to take the extra step to make it right? So maybe I'd do the same for someone else because it's the right thing to do....

[joebob]

Part of the reason I made this post was to open a discussion and get some dialogue that would help me and maybe help someone else down the road if they got in a simliar situation to me. I wasnt going to let this thread make my decision for me or influence how I would handle the situation but Im glad that we as a community can have dualouge on a topic that has obviously sparked emotion and thought.

The divide seems to amoung the more "old fashioned" do the right thing side vs the you fufilled your obligation side which I think could be argued in a lot of topics not the just the one it is being argued in right now. The facts are that this is an unfortante situation and no matter what the outcome ends up being one the of the parties isnt going to be completly happy with how it turns out. I have used the word screwed a few times and gotten blasted but one person is going to get a little bit screwed in the sence of time and some monitary obligations. The goal of doing any transaction is to have two satisfied parties and I can promise you that when this is all said and done there will only be one satisfied party in this deal no matter what the outcome ends up being and that is unfortunate.

Edited October 6, 2011 by joebob

[lugnut]

joebob... the gun broke. Regardless of whether you sold it or not.... a broken gun is always a bummer. Not the end of the world... try to keep it in perspective. Good luck.