Driving the gun.

[dpeters8445]

How do you train yourself to drive the gun both in slits and transition?

I think most of the time when I'm shooting, I just let the gun recoil in my hands naturally and I wait for the dot to recover naturally before I am ready to touch of the next round.

However, sometimes I get the feeling in practice that I'm using the "force" and that I'm really driving the gun to the next target and seeing just a mininum of what I need to see to touch off the shot. The problem is I only shoot like this probably 20 % of the time and it is always in practice and never in a match.

Here is an example, a couple weeks ago I set up Melony line in practice. My first couple runs were right around 7 seconds. Then for about the next 10 runs somehow it seems that the "force" came upon me and I was shooting every run under 5.5 secounds. My best run was 5.24 down 2. That kind of time and points is better then I usally shoot an elPrez.

So, How do I train myself to always be in the drivers seat and drive my dot to where it needs to go?

[shred]

I asked Benos this one night-- for a while I would get into an "I-Can't-Miss" mode shooting steel-- as in, the dot was always where I wanted it, when I wanted it, and faster than usual.

His answer was something like "reproduce the environment you were in when you shot like that". Don't try and be exact (don't try at all), but get the feeling back.

[Flexmoney]

I think driving the gun well can only happen in a state of relaxed control. (If that makes any sense)

Vision and feel are our inputs. With tension, we lose a lot of those inputs.

Relaxing allows us the inputs. Control seems to come from a clear desire to hit the target.

[benos]

Yes, you must become intimately familiar with your mental state present during impeccable activity. Then focusing on re-creating that state - typically accompanied by qualities like "non-trying," calmness, readiness, clarity, decisiveness, trust, alertness - will allow what you want to happen to happen.

The more you train, as your techniques improve and become almost second nature - you might find that training becomes more of a means of discovering how to remain composed and aware, rather than just firing the gun.

And you don't have to be at the range to do this. Daily, become aware of your mind's quality when doing things that require precision.

be

[Paladin]

Agree with Benos..just to add my 2 cents..in observing your mental state you want to see where your focus was and what were your distractions.. where you as purposeful as you should be? you also want to be mindful if body tension is creeping in..trigger freeze, fatigue, not remembering where your sights was are examples of tension creeping in..

[j1b]

I believe the first step to performing at a high level is realizing that nobody performs there completely in their safe zone. Not even the big dogs.

Not one top shooter thinks "ok - just relaxe and do what is natural" because if they did we'd still be doing a 10 second El Presidente.

Look, feel, see, and push! In practice all of it is good because then you know what you can do in a match. That is the mental awareness I personally want to gain.

JB

[Jake Di Vita]

Awesome post Jack.

That totally echoed what I was thinking.

[Steve Anderson]

What does it feel like to push the gun?

What does it feel like to shoot all A's?

What does it feel like to shoot in complete control?

What does it look like?

Answer these questions at LAMR, then play the video back in your mind.

When I do this, I feel a complete calm, and usually crack a slight grin.

SA

[spook]

I believe the first step to performing at a high level is realizing that nobody performs there completely in their safe zone. Not even the big dogs.

Jack, don't you think that the top shooters that win the big matches (not just stages) do so because they remain in their "safe zone" longest of all shooters? I agree with you that this game remains a mind game whether you're a D-class or a GM.

Not one top shooter thinks "ok - just relaxe and do what is natural" because if they did we'd still be doing a 10 second El Presidente.

I think that most top shooters are pretty relaxed when they shoot, and if they're not, I believe they would be better if they were relaxed.

When I look at Eric Grauffel's or Rob Leatham's scores, the first thing I notice is that they are in the top 10 on just about every stage and do not drop any points at all.

Pushing yourself in practice is one thing, but in a match it's just time to give a solid performance.

[3quartertime]

A year or two ago Rush Limbaugh said about Tiger Woods that he...

'Has the ability to maintain focus when all around him get diluted. '

Seems to fit here...

Bill Seevers once told me he shoots on the edge of being in control.

I think the push is the critical part. If a shooter can find comfort in the feeling of being on the edge then how can he be beat... A shooter like Blake Miguez seems to be on the brink of control at all times. But we see the results of his intensity when he is on his game.

When I watch a really good shooter that can shoot A's really fast I think there is no way they are calling the second shot. But I think they are. I think they are calling it in their comfort zone. The first shot on a target is the easy one. You swing and squeeze. The second is the make or break shot. That split time can make lots of difference as we know. I think the good shooters more sense the second shot than see it at that speed. I think they just have an intuitive sense that if they were on target with the first shot all they need to see is a fuzzy version of the second shot to squeeze. Not to say they don't actually see the second shot, but that they don't need as perfect of a picture the second time. At my present level I feel that I'm waiting for the second shot to be very clear. I can hear the difference in the better shooters. I'm taking too long to choose my second sight picture. I think the fix for this comes from live practice. You can't feel the next shot in dry fire.

My base for this is my personal preformance. I always shoot more accuately towards the end of a stage. I think I tend to start feeling the second shot/gun movement better.

Note please: by refering to feeling the shot I'm not infering that the second shot isn't called. Just that it is called faster because of a sense of proper index or felt/sensed picture...

[MoNsTeR]

I agree with 3QT. My second shots get better as the stage wears on; I'm not yet comfortable enough with the way my gun handles and shoots (and with the way *I* handle and shoot) that I can drive it well right off the buzzer.

[benos]

Note: If "driving the gun" in this thread is not related to "driving the gun" in PS, BF, then disregard the following.

I thought about this thread a lot over the weekend.

Strictly speaking, any attempt to "drive the gun," as I briefly discussed in PS, BF, is to defile it. While many levels of "attention directed activity" could be said to be driving the gun, I didn't want to say too much (in the book) because I felt the more I said the less meaning I'll convey.

It's basically a state that may overtake you after your training has exhausted every last detail, every last doubt. It's truly an extraordinary event - sheer will doing things you may never have imagined. And if it should happen to ever overtake you, it probably will never happen the same way again, especially on the next run. One of the most radial overtakings I "noticed," was my arm/hand position breaking at the wrists so the gun could more quickly hit the last target. (As the gun was swinging toward it.) (Stop plate in Roundabout.) This violates all the mechanics of shooting, yet it was happening, it was "working," but it never happened the same way twice.

be

[j1b]

Spook

I think my post is a little misleading as I go back and read it.

To answer the first question - I don't believe any shooter shoots completely within their safe zone. The safe zone to me is shooting a 7 second El Pres, something that is technically not very difficult to do and insures not only good hits, but all A's.

For me, there is the safe zone, that butts up to the challenge zone, that butts up to the danger zone. Riding in the challenge zone, where I must pay attention and do what is right but I'm not sitting on my duff just hanging out is where I personally need to be to stay the most competitive. For me (in my prime) this meant almost no stage wins, but many top ten performances and generally a good performance at a match. If you look at my scores at almost any limited nationals I think you'd see indications of that. Not quite as steady as I would have liked, but almost always a top ten performance in the match. I was never really comfortable shooting limited back then, so I always backed off a bit.

I guess that leads into my thoughts on your second question - and this (like everything else) is just my opinion. I don't think the top dogs are relaxed when they shoot most stages. I personally don't think 90% of the shooters out there look nervous when they are on the line - I also believe that 90% of the shooters out there ARE nervous on the line. On the flip side, clearly I don't think they are crapping in their boots either. I believe they are on edge, balanced by desiring to be relaxed. I believe that the mere fact that they can execute what they intend to do doesn't mean there aren't butterflies in the belly, it just means they know how to handle them.

The sport doesn't lend itself to complacency. If you want to excel, you have to extend yourself. I guess that's the end all of what I was going for.

I'm sure I made the somewhat dirty water really muddy with this post.

JB

[j1b]

I'll take back my limited match results. The archive only goes back to 95'. In 95' I was 10th but in 96' I was something like 37th and I didn't shoot the limited nationals in 97' or beyond. But before 95 I had like an 8th and another 10th - or something close to that. Just wanted to clarify.

JB

[Kimberkid]

Just trying to test this computer. Wish me luck

[shred]

Thanks Jack, that's just the kind of thing I've been curious about. I had been 'trying' almost to get into snooze-mode when shooting. I shot good points and won a lot locally, but was always way back on the big dogs. Lately I've been pushing a bit more.. my scores have suffered somewhat, but the time improvements make up for it.

[spook]

For me, there is the safe zone, that butts up to the challenge zone, that butts up to the danger zone.

Jack, I like that. The challenge zone. A zone where your goal is to do everything perfect as fast as possible. If things aren't perfect you judge (preferably subconsciencly) whether the imperfection was big enough to add time.

Safe zone : guaranties best possible points

Challenge zone: estimated best chance for highest possible hitfactor

Danger zone: for estimated best time

Something like that?

[j1b]

That's it!

From a "market share" standpoint of the bar, you obviously want the Danger zone to be the smallest sliver on the very end. Basically that would mean that unless you are going absolutely nuts, you are in your challenge zone. Originally I used to think the challenge zone should be big, but not anymore - the challenge zone (for me) is pretty small and will continue to be. It represents that area where I'm not being safe, but I'm still in control.

For another analogy - you're a golfer on the Tee box - there's water long and sand short. The green is small. Hitting the green is the challenge zone (hole in one being micro inches short of the Danger zone but still in the challenge zone) Coming up short (the safe zone) is going to make getting par difficult. Still possible no doubt, but difficult because you've got a sand shot that's got to be handled delicately. Go long and your wet. You've taken par out of the equation and are scrambling to minimize damage.

Thanks!

JB

[benos]

My Temperament/Personality has never responded well to the ideas of "pushing" or "safe."

I found I performed better if I guided myself in terms of visual acceptability, which is often accompanied by a good reality check. Like if I was shooting against The Great One in a speedy shoot off, I of course knew I didn't have the luxury of seeing a stopped sight picture on every shot. So I would decide beforehand what I did need to see to at least have a 98% chance of hitting each target. I think this worked for me because I was creating objectives with tangible things I could actually see and do, opposed to guiding my actions with feelings.

Another good example (I know I've related at some point so bear with me if I'm repeating myself) was way back in '89, when "all I had to do" was shoot a solid score in the Action event at the Masters to win the thing. Of course my head was full of confusing input - "Don't push," "All you gotta do is shoot safe and you'll win," or, "If you just shoot at 90%, that's all you need." Finally I settled on "See what you need to to know you are shooting each target near the middle." Which worked out really well for me - I even ended up finishing second in the Action event. I actually felt like I shot the Action event better than I'd have normally hoped for, even if I wasn't in contention to win the match. That was a valuable lesson for me. And the reality check in this case was knowing, from experience, that shooting each target in the middle (seeing what I needed to see to know I was shooting the middle of each target as I was shooting each target) was all I needed to do. That would be fast enough.

be

[pac1911]

For me pushing leads to trouble. Pushing indicates that I am not waiting for my sights to be aligned well enough to hit the shot I need to hit. When I push, I invariably lose my paitence and squeeze the trigger BEFORE I have sufficiently pointed the gun at the target.

Of course, as soon as I see what I think I need to see, I thenmove on and break the shot as quickly as possible.

I practice shooting quickly, but also at the same time I practice paitence.

pc

[BritinUSA]

Here is an example, a couple weeks ago I set up Melony line in practice. My first couple runs were right around 7 seconds. Then for about the next 10 runs somehow it seems that the "force" came upon me and I was shooting every run under 5.5 secounds. My best run was 5.24 down 2. That kind of time and points is better then I usally shoot an elPrez.

Just my 2 cents; The thing that struck me with the original post was the fact that the first few runs on the stage were slower than the later runs. The reason for this maybe very simple, at least it seems that way to me...

During the first few runs, you may have been conscious of your performance, conscious of the sight alignment and the fact that you were hitting the targets before moving on to the next target in sequence.

As you proceed to shoot the stage over and over again, you stop thinking about the fact that you have broken a clean shot and stopped thinking about moving the sights to the next target, you just do it...

Brian's book goes into tremendous detail on this with the topics on awareness, I think in this particular case you started getting better runs because you stopped thinking, stopped your conscious thoughts and just did the stage.

The trick is to not think about it, just do it the first run and not on the 10th,11th, 12th etc. During a match we only get to shoot a stage once, therefore we have to get it right first time.

I have found that I shoot my best when I come to the line without thinking. That is, I have spent a few minutes before the stage thinking about how I am going to shoot it, then when called to the line, allow my mind to go blank, not to think consciously about anything but to let my mind 'float'.

We do the exact thing every time we get behind the wheel of a car, we don't drive down the road thinking, 'change from 1st to 2nd gear, depress the accelerator, activate the turn signals...' we just do it without thinking.

[benos]

Britin,

Your last couple paragraphs open up a good topic. Early on, we did think about when to shift, when to signal, and so on. Then after those things become second nature, we "just do them," without thinking about them anymore. But there's a couple interesting factors involved in that process that normally go unnoticed. The first is - what we learn is often not as important as how we learn. Say you're learning to shoot for the first time, and are being taught by The Great One, who knows what's is important and what is not. You will learn at a massively faster rate than if someone just gave you a gun and sent you off to the woods to figure it out by yourself.

The second important factor combines how we learned in the first place with how we apply it now. If we didn't learn "properly" in the first place, there's little chance of successfully applying it later, especially if stress is involved. If we did learn properly, we have the potential to apply it under pressure, if we've learned the "how" of applying. Combine the "how of learning" and "how of applying" with the various individual Temperaments... and we have excellent drivers and sloppy drivers.

be

[Paladin]

sorry but THE SAFE ZONE IS YOU BEING IN CONTROL OF YOUR GUN..NOT YOUR TIME ON A STAGE!!

Push yourself in training to improve but at a certain point you will become ragged (losing gun control, erratic performance) and you will know that you have pushed too much for your current capabilities. In a match you want to cut back to about 75-85% (IMHO) of 'what you know you can do' to remain in control so that control does not become a distraction. This will also smooth you out, improve consistency and maintain your confidence levels. DON'T TRAIN IN A MATCH, LEARN IN A MATCH..

[BritinUSA]

Brian, you are absolutely correct ! The preliminary training is the most important part of this sport, or any sport for that matter. A bad habit picked up early can be almost impossible to get rid of. I wrote some articles for our club newsletter a while back that looked into how the synapses in the brain are formed and how we learn new skills. The earlier a skill is taught the more rapidly the brain will pick it up, we never stop learning but our ability to learn NEW things decreases with age. As much as 90% of the synapses that we will ever need are formed in the first 3 years of life. New ones are developed and old ones lost as we grow older.

Whatever experiences and knowledge that a baby encounters in it's first 3 years will determine the type of person they will be for the rest of their life.... a scary thought !

When we learn new skills the process seems slow and awkward, but once the process has been learned then speed and ability will follow. It is the difference between WRITING a book which takes a lot of effort and thought, and READING a book which takes little effort. As we learn new skills the synapses are being formed, the more times we repeat those skills then the faster the synapses or neural connections will be created. Once they have formed then we can accomplish those tasks / actions without conscious thought.

But if the synapses that are written are formed with an incorrect method or technique then we have to replace those connections with the correct ones, so now we are in an ERASE / WRITE mode which is even slower than the original WRITE only mode. So when we try to learn a better way of doing something our times and our scores will suffer until the ERASE / WRITE has been completed.

Learning by shooting drills is a more appropriate way of learning IPSC than just shooting stages. If you learn to shoot a single stage then you will become great at shooting that particular stage (such as an El Presidente). But if we learn by performing drills, such as draw, reload, entering and leaving shooting boxes etc. then the skills can be applied to any stages. We learn to read by first learning the alphabet and then recognising the sounds those letters make to form words. Drills are the LETTERS of the IPSC alphabet and the final stage is the WORD or SENTENCE that we are trying to read.

Please excuse my rambling....

[benos]

Good point on learning by doing drills. Rob and I didn't start shooting stages in practice (in IPSC, not counting Steel Challenge or Bianchi because the COFs are like drills) until many years after we began shooting the sport (practicing drills). Nowadays it's not uncommon for beginners to rarely, if ever, practice drills.

be